Heritage February

[lb jefferies]

Also, whatever criticism readers may have about Nuke and his introduction into the story, the premise of the character is sadly, anything but dated. Elaborating would just take this discussion into an entirely different direction, so I'll just say that I disagree about that point.

 

I agree with you, Felix.

 

My issue is that that particular plot device was - to me - jarringly inserted into the story, taking it down an odd rabbit hole that - again, to me - felt out of step with the tale these two creators were telling. I've since read that Mazzucchelli had a pretty similar reaction when he saw how the plot was turning.

[Nexus]

 

Perhaps, but while Born Again is in my top 3 all time favorite comic book stories, I wasn't a big fan of it's finish when it got to the Nuke subplot. Just a personal bias but even now, with the limited availability of BA pages, I'm not sure I would go hard after these Nuke centric art pages. I'd much rather have something from the earlier BA issues, or better yet, a complete issue like one of our board members has. That would certainly scratch my itch! (thumbs u

 

Scott

 

Yes, an inspired buy. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wishes he thought of it first!

[Nexus]

I think your suspicion is partly true, but is overlooking two other BIG potential dynamics:

 

Would you be satisfied with printing out 11X17 copies from Heritage scans for anything you didn't feel was worth the cost? I don't know about you, but that would do very little for me.

 

In the end, even if the AEs do scratch the itch for some collectors, there does not appear to be any effect on market value. Has the art from any title that's received the AE treatment gotten any cheaper? I can't think of anything off the top of my head. ASM #98 is still going to cost whatever it's going to cost, AE or no AE.

 

For the record, I'm a big fan of the AEs. But they are in no way substitutes for the real thing for me (I ain't Ryan Gosling in LARS AND THE REAL GIRL ) . I'd still love to have a complete issue of BORN AGAIN, for example. Whether that's feasible or not is another matter...the point being, the reproductions don't lessen my desire for the original.

 

Or to put it another way, if I don't care enough about a work to want an original, I probably won't care enough to buy the AE.

 

Also, I hear you about preferring a DD page in costume - normally, that would be my preference too, but "Born Again" is anything but a normal storyline. For me, a DD in costume battling Nuke page is about as satisfying to me as a DD #168 page without Elektra or a GSXM #1 page that doesn't have any new X-Men on it. Not that they aren't still cool pages, but those aren't the pages you'd really love to have from the storyline.

 

If two BA pages are auctioned simultaneously, and one has DD battling Nuke, and the other has a derelict Matt Murdock on skid row, my hunch is that the former finishes higher than the latter. Even when the latter is what makes BORN AGAIN memorable. I could be wrong; it would be refreshing if I AM wrong. But costumes are what has always moved the needle. I don't see a non-costume page selling for as much as the Avengers page anytime soon, for example (although the last page of #227 with the apartment blowing up might be an exception).

 

My understanding for the reason Mazz broke up #232 and #233 was due to his awareness they'd have the most market value as they were the two issues most heavy in costumes and action. Because that's what the fans wanted. Thus, he wouldn't have to sell as much art, to realize his financial goal at that time.

 

On the other hand...

 

Also, whatever criticism readers may have about Nuke and his introduction into the story, the premise of the character is sadly, anything but dated. Elaborating would just take this discussion into an entirely different direction, so I'll just say that I disagree about that point.

 

I agree with you, Felix.

 

My issue is that that particular plot device was - to me - jarringly inserted into the story, taking it down an odd rabbit hole that - again, to me - felt out of step with the tale these two creators were telling. I've since read that Mazzucchelli had a pretty similar reaction when he saw how the plot was turning.

 

...it may be telling that when he did decide to unload some of his BA art, #232 and #233 are what he decided to sell. Only he knows for sure. I did have a conversation with him a couple of years ago at NYCC. At the time, I owned two action pages from #233. He told me that he was especially proud of the action sequences in the finale, because he felt he had improved as an artist over the course of the run, and because he felt the action worked well. My impression is that he's proud of BA as a whole. He should be, because overall, the work holds up. If there are elements that feel dated (which I don't necessarily agree with), well...everything is a product of its time. Forgivable, to me, when the overall work succeeds.

 

 

[delekkerste]

Would you be satisfied with printing out 11X17 copies from Heritage scans for anything you didn't feel was worth the cost? I don't know about you, but that would do very little for me.

 

In the end, even if the AEs do scratch the itch for some collectors, there does not appear to be any effect on market value. Has the art from any title that's received the AE treatment gotten any cheaper? I can't think of anything off the top of my head. ASM #98 is still going to cost whatever it's going to cost, AE or no AE.

 

For the record, I'm a big fan of the AEs. But they are in no way substitutes for the real thing for me (I ain't Ryan Gosling in LARS AND THE REAL GIRL ) . I'd still love to have a complete issue of BORN AGAIN, for example. Whether that's feasible or not is another matter...the point being, the reproductions don't lessen my desire for the original.

 

Or to put it another way, if I don't care enough about a work to want an original, I probably won't care enough to buy the AE.

 

First, all of your comments are directed at my second point above, while ignoring the first point. Not that an AE would necessarily scratch the itch for everyone there either, but we've established that some people, like myself and Scott, are simply not interested in paying top dollar for art that is not the most representative of the best of the run/storyline. That goes not just for Born Again, but Simonson Thor, etc.

 

If Paul Smith had kept all the art from Uncanny X-Men #173 and the only PMS pages on the market were from, say, #168, I certainly wouldn't be paying $9,500 just to have a page from that issue. And, if there was a PMS AE with #173 and other issues, so much the better! Doesn't mean that I don't love the PMS UXM run enough (clearly from my collection and the prices I've paid, that's obviously not the case!), it just means that, if I have to "settle" for something sub-optimal, paying $150 for a PMS AE seems like a better choice than shelling out big bucks for a page from an issue that doesn't push all the right buttons.

 

Would I be satisfied simply printing out Heritage scans? Probably not. It takes a lot more time and effort than clicking a few buttons and having a beautiful AE shipped to my door. Not to mention IDW has scanned in color, at full size, on the right paper stock, etc. - the AEs are professionally done and collectible unto themselves. The loose EC cover portfolio they did was even closer to the real deal and stunning in its execution. I would be very happy if they made more of those - my fiancee even suggested that we frame one of them (if you knew her, it would make that statement even more surprising!) It may also surprise you to know that I bought an extra copy of the Gil Kane AE to cut up and potentially display/frame. As you know, I was the underbidder on the ASM #121 cover - in hindsight, I'm very glad to have lost out (much more happy with everything else I've bought since, which I might not have been able to swing had I bought the #121), especially since I can now get the AE page framed for a negligible price. No, it's not the same as owning the original, but, hey, I'd rather have the perfect lookalike and an extra $286K in the bank, thank you very much!

[delekkerste]

Which brings me to another point I raised previously - who says that your only expression of love/nostalgia has to be ownership of some piece of the original art? I don't feel that to prove my love of Born Again I have to buy a Nuke page for $10K - I bet I've read that story as many times as anyone here (err...I may have skipped over the last two issues a number of times, though ) and I bet that no one here has read #227 as many times as I have. I even voted for #227 in my ballot for the Top 100 Marvels of All-Time back in 2001, displacing DD #181 (my all-time favorite), as I thought it would need the help more than the obvious #181. As it turns out, #227 placed higher than #181 in the survey! Which further bolsters my argument that the most memorable pages from the run are from #227 and the earlier issues. In any case, sometimes the memories and appreciation of the underlying material are enough. Or owning the comics and/or TPBs. And, if there's an AE that has all the material vs. the limited amount available on the market - well, I don't see why that's any less valid an expression of love and nostalgia than buying a Nuke page, which doesn't do it not just for me and Scott, but for numerous people who have posted here and in the comments sections of those same articles you have linked.

 

Have the AEs negatively impacted market value? For "Born Again", perhaps not, though we can't say what prices would have been in the absence of the AE - maybe lower, but maybe higher as well. As for all the other art, especially the more niche material - who knows? Maybe the AE scratched a lot of itches for people who had a marginal interest in owning a Groo original (I've been known to throw in a bid or two in the past, but am pretty content with the AE now). Not to mention, we can't say for sure what the longer-run impact will be, especially if prices continue to rise. Maybe some people will get priced out regardless, but perhaps the existence of AEs will make it easier for some people to throw in the towel. OA is a nostalgia-driven hobby, and there is more than one way to rekindle your nostalgia, especially in an era with Totleben and Mazz pages are breaking 5 figures, Brent Anderson covers can approach $45K and the best of the best material costs more than houses in most parts of the country. I can say with metaphysical certainty that the AEs have and will continue to displace some portion of my overall OA spend.

 

As for Mazz's decision to sell the latter material, the answer is quite simple: the costumes were an easier sell and it's the easiest part of the storyline to let go. Win-win for him.

 

Anyway, I don't expect everyone to feel the same way I do about the AEs, but I think you have to acknowledge that there are people who do feel this way instead of trying to rationalize some other explanation that's more in accordance with your own views.

[GreatEscape]

 

Speaking of wanting DD Born Again Artists Edition...

 

 

[Nexus]

Speaking of wanting DD Born Again Artists Edition...

 

 

 

 

The Mazz, the Wally Wood, and the Dave Stevens ROCKETEER are my three favorite AEs. Santa did you right!

[Nexus]

Would you be satisfied with printing out 11X17 copies from Heritage scans for anything you didn't feel was worth the cost? I don't know about you, but that would do very little for me.

 

In the end, even if the AEs do scratch the itch for some collectors, there does not appear to be any effect on market value. Has the art from any title that's received the AE treatment gotten any cheaper? I can't think of anything off the top of my head. ASM #98 is still going to cost whatever it's going to cost, AE or no AE.

 

For the record, I'm a big fan of the AEs. But they are in no way substitutes for the real thing for me (I ain't Ryan Gosling in LARS AND THE REAL GIRL ) . I'd still love to have a complete issue of BORN AGAIN, for example. Whether that's feasible or not is another matter...the point being, the reproductions don't lessen my desire for the original.

 

Or to put it another way, if I don't care enough about a work to want an original, I probably won't care enough to buy the AE.

 

First, all of your comments are directed at my second point above, while ignoring the first point. Not that an AE would necessarily scratch the itch for everyone there either, but we've established that some people, like myself and Scott, are simply not interested in paying top dollar for art that is not the most representative of the best of the run/storyline. That goes not just for Born Again, but Simonson Thor, etc.

 

Not ignoring or glossing over...I accept that idea.

 

If Paul Smith had kept all the art from Uncanny X-Men #173 and the only PMS pages on the market were from, say, #168, I certainly wouldn't be paying $9,500 just to have a page from that issue. And, if there was a PMS AE with #173 and other issues, so much the better! Doesn't mean that I don't love the PMS UXM run enough (clearly from my collection and the prices I've paid, that's obviously not the case!), it just means that, if I have to "settle" for something sub-optimal, paying $150 for a PMS AE seems like a better choice than shelling out big bucks for a page from an issue that doesn't push all the right buttons.

 

I accept this, too. Owning the AEs vs. the actual OA is not any indication for your love or appreciation of the original work. My point is that, while the AEs are beautiful, they still aren't the real thing.

 

You know what lessens my desire for the real thing? It's not the AE...it's the price! If something is more than I can afford or want to spend, I move on. The existence of an AE is irrelevant. The AEs supplement my collection, they aren't a replacement.

 

Would I be satisfied simply printing out Heritage scans? Probably not. It takes a lot more time and effort than clicking a few buttons and having a beautiful AE shipped to my door. Not to mention IDW has scanned in color, at full size, on the right paper stock, etc. - the AEs are professionally done and collectible unto themselves. The loose EC portfolio they did was even closer to the real deal and stunning in its execution. I would be very happy if they made more of those - my girlfriend even suggested that we frame one of them. It may also surprise you to know that I bought an extra copy of the Gil Kane AE to cut up and potentially display/frame. As you know, I was the underbidder on the ASM #121 cover - in hindsight, I'm very glad to have lost out (much more happy with everything else I've bought since, which I might not have been able to swing had I bought the #121), especially since I can now get the AE page framed for a negligible price. No, it's not the same as owning the original, but, hey, I'd rather have the perfect lookalike and an extra $286K in the bank, thank you very much.

 

Actually, you could make copies from Heritage scans that are even NICER than the AEs. It's not that hard. You can print directly onto Bristol board, and that would be an even closer approximation than the AE. We have a mutual friend who prints out his own copies to frame and display from scans of art he already owns (which he keeps in a safe)...can't really tell unless you know about it beforehand. But again, while that might be a fun project and cool to have, it still wouldn't be the same as owning the real thing.

 

In general, I think we mostly agree here.

[Nexus]

Which brings me to another point I raised previously - who says that your only expression of love/nostalgia has to be ownership of some piece of the original art?

 

No, owning OA is not a requirement to be a fan. You don't have to own OA to prove your love for a title or artist. I never said that. But for OA collectors, the point is to own the art. Buying AEs is perfectly fine for those who appreciate OA. But they're still copies to those who collect OA.

 

Have the AEs negatively impacted market value?

 

On the whole, I don't think so. At worst, a neutral effect. Going back to my earlier point, my thinking is that if someone decides they no longer want Brett Anderson covers because they've hit $45K, Totleben ST pages because they're now $10K, BA pages because they're $10K, etc., it has more to do with the price, than the existence of an AE featuring that art.

 

If, on the other hand, the OA was still within someone's budget, then the AE may be more likely to increase that person's desire to own an original, rather than satisfy it.

 

Not to mention, we can't say for sure what the longer-run impact will be, especially if prices continue to rise.

 

Well, if prices continue to rise, then that would demonstrate to me that AEs have not hurt the OA market.

 

Anyway, I don't expect everyone to feel the same way I do about the AEs, but I think you have to acknowledge that there are people who do feel this way instead of trying to rationalize some other explanation.

 

I *try* (and admit I'm not always successful) to separate my own personal feelings from how others may think. As I said before, I certainly accept that you may not feel the same. No rationalization, just articulating my thoughts.

[delekkerste]

On the whole, I don't think so. At worst, a neutral effect. Going back to my earlier point, my thinking is that if someone decides they no longer want Brett Anderson covers because they've hit $45K, Totleben ST pages because they're now $10K, BA pages because they're $10K, etc., it has more to do with the price, than the existence of an AE featuring that art.

 

If, on the other hand, the OA was still within someone's budget, then the AE may be more likely to increase that person's desire to own an original, rather than satisfy it.

 

Sounds like we agree on a lot of things and that we disagree at the margin. I totally agree with you that price has become the main driver of the buy/don't buy decision; if prices were a lot lower, then there would be less need or desire to substitute. But, given where prices are now, and the fact that there are AEs, it makes it easier to pass. Similarly, let's say that someone only had room in his budget for a single Born Again page or a single Totleben ST page (recent examples having sold for approximately the same price) - perhaps that person goes for the ST page instead of the BA page because he has the BA AE.

 

 

Well, if prices continue to rise, then that would demonstrate to me that AEs have not hurt the OA market.

 

I can also see how the AE might dampen one's willingness to pay up for an original, even if it was still within reaching distance. For example, let's go back to ASM #98 and pretend that the book is broken up at auction so that we are talking about more normal-sized numbers. Let's say that I like a page and, in the absence of an AE, maybe I'm willing to stretch to $25K for the page. But, maybe having the option to enjoy it in an AE curbs how much I would spend at the margin and I would only pay $22K. Let's say that someone outbids me and wins it for $23K. Prices still look very strong, but the existence of the AE has actually reduced the price by $1-3K. I'm not saying this is a common phenomenon (yet, anyway), though I would say that the existence of the AE would curb (somewhat) my own appetite for even prime Simonson Thor and Mazz BA pages were they to hit the market. Yes, I'd still be interested, but maybe I'm bidding a bit less than I otherwise would have.

 

Anyway, I finally got around to reading "Freakonomics" and am finding all kinds of new angles and questions and potential dynamics to consider, with "How does the advent of Artist's Editions impact the pricing of the featured OA?" just being the start!

[disruptive_one]

I don't know. I'm not that excited about this event.

 

My experience with Heritage is that they work their way backwards for events like this. The prime merchandise gets loaded first; all of the really exciting showcase pieces. And they "fill-in" with lesser pieces; Sunday Event caliber pieces as we get closer to the actual auction.

 

There is some good Golden Age stuff, but that doesn't mean much to non-GA collectors. Even last Feb I remember that they had that ASM 303 beauty from McFarlane.

[batman_fan]

I don't know. I'm not that excited about this event.

 

My experience with Heritage is that they work their way backwards for events like this. The prime merchandise gets loaded first; all of the really exciting showcase pieces. And they "fill-in" with lesser pieces; Sunday Event caliber pieces as we get closer to the actual auction.

 

There is some good Golden Age stuff, but that doesn't mean much to non-GA collectors. Even last Feb I remember that they had that ASM 303 beauty from McFarlane.

 

I have the opposite view on this one. There are a ton of GA I would love to bid on as well as a bunch of OA. I will have to figure out what to focus on.

[heartened]

Which brings me to another point I raised previously - who says that your only expression of love/nostalgia has to be ownership of some piece of the original art? I don't feel that to prove my love of Born Again I have to buy a Nuke page for $10K - I bet I've read that story as many times as anyone here (err...I may have skipped over the last two issues a number of times, though ) and I bet that no one here has read #227 as many times as I have. I even voted for #227 in my ballot for the Top 100 Marvels of All-Time back in 2001, displacing DD #181 (my all-time favorite), as I thought it would need the help more than the obvious #181. As it turns out, #227 placed higher than #181 in the survey! Which further bolsters my argument that the most memorable pages from the run are from #227 and the earlier issues. In any case, sometimes the memories and appreciation of the underlying material are enough. Or owning the comics and/or TPBs. And, if there's an AE that has all the material vs. the limited amount available on the market - well, I don't see why that's any less valid an expression of love and nostalgia than buying a Nuke page, which doesn't do it not just for me and Scott, but for numerous people who have posted here and in the comments sections of those same articles you have linked.

 

Have the AEs negatively impacted market value? For "Born Again", perhaps not, though we can't say what prices would have been in the absence of the AE - maybe lower, but maybe higher as well. As for all the other art, especially the more niche material - who knows? Maybe the AE scratched a lot of itches for people who had a marginal interest in owning a Groo original (I've been known to throw in a bid or two in the past, but am pretty content with the AE now). Not to mention, we can't say for sure what the longer-run impact will be, especially if prices continue to rise. Maybe some people will get priced out regardless, but perhaps the existence of AEs will make it easier for some people to throw in the towel. OA is a nostalgia-driven hobby, and there is more than one way to rekindle your nostalgia, especially in an era with Totleben and Mazz pages are breaking 5 figures, Brent Anderson covers can approach $45K and the best of the best material costs more than houses in most parts of the country. I can say with metaphysical certainty that the AEs have and will continue to displace some portion of my overall OA spend.

 

As for Mazz's decision to sell the latter material, the answer is quite simple: the costumes were an easier sell and it's the easiest part of the storyline to let go. Win-win for him.

 

Anyway, I don't expect everyone to feel the same way I do about the AEs, but I think you have to acknowledge that there are people who do feel this way instead of trying to rationalize some other explanation that's more in accordance with your own views.

 

Happy holidays everyone! I'm with Felix on this one. We are OA collectors, anyone (even a very close friend) saying that a reproduction will scratch any OA itch they have is fooling themselves. If they are fine with a reproduction, they would have been fine with the comic. There is no middle-ground in this hobby. There is only one OA, one-of-a-kind. It's what keeps us excited and also what prevents many of us from simply commissioning the artist for a recreation. Gene, I love you buddy, but I think you're rationalizing or something here and I can't quite put my finger on it. Hearing your points above, and knowing you pretty well, I'd say that if you didn't have a PMS example at all, and 173 issues weren't available, you'd buy BOTH the IDW and a lesser OA example from somewhere else in the run. That's what I'd do, and I don't think you and I are that far off.

 

As for whether IDW AE increase or decrease the price of OA, it's simple. Anything that increases readership or visibility will increase the value of the original. Let's not miss the forest for the trees, guys.

 

PS, I think I attached this to the wrong post. Responding to some of the thoughts by Felix, Gene and Scott. Interesting and important topic.

 

[delekkerste]

Gene, I love you buddy, but I think you're rationalizing or something here and I can't quite put my finger on it. Hearing your points above, and knowing you pretty well, I'd say that if you didn't have a PMS example at all, and 173 issues weren't available, you'd buy BOTH the IDW and a lesser OA example from somewhere else in the run. That's what I'd do, and I don't think you and I are that far off.

 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here, buddy! Just don't have the same point of view, and I think there definitely is ground between the comic and the OA. At the end of the day, most of us are in it for the nostalgia, not just for the actual physical art, and that can be expressed in various forms. And, putting the IDW AEs aside (as if they didn't exist), I definitely wouldn't settle for the lesser OA just to "have an example" (at least not in many/most cases). And neither would Scott Williams, apparently, with the available Born Again pages at least. So, I'm in good company!

[tth2]

My experience with Heritage is that they work their way backwards for events like this. The prime merchandise gets loaded first; all of the really exciting showcase pieces. And they "fill-in" with lesser pieces; Sunday Event caliber pieces as we get closer to the actual auction.

If your biggest complaint about Heritage is that they start with some really awesome pieces but fail to add pieces that are even more awesome, they can probably live with that.

[disruptive_one]

Not a complaint. Heritage had tons of great stuff in the November Auction. Just making an observation. Comiclink looks to be more my speed this time around.

[heartened]

Gene, I love you buddy, but I think you're rationalizing or something here and I can't quite put my finger on it. Hearing your points above, and knowing you pretty well, I'd say that if you didn't have a PMS example at all, and 173 issues weren't available, you'd buy BOTH the IDW and a lesser OA example from somewhere else in the run. That's what I'd do, and I don't think you and I are that far off.

 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here, buddy! Just don't have the same point of view, and I think there definitely is ground between the comic and the OA. At the end of the day, most of us are in it for the nostalgia, not just for the actual physical art, and that can be expressed in various forms. And, putting the IDW AEs aside (as if they didn't exist), I definitely wouldn't settle for the lesser OA just to "have an example" (at least not in many/most cases). And neither would Scott Williams, apparently, with the available Born Again pages at least. So, I'm in good company!

 

Hey Gene,

 

Do you have an AE book and no desire to own any of the original art anymore (even though it's affordable or available)? That's the only way I'll be convinced that it scratches the itch. But of course we can agree to disagree

 

Hari

 

[stinkininkin]

Gene, I love you buddy, but I think you're rationalizing or something here and I can't quite put my finger on it. Hearing your points above, and knowing you pretty well, I'd say that if you didn't have a PMS example at all, and 173 issues weren't available, you'd buy BOTH the IDW and a lesser OA example from somewhere else in the run. That's what I'd do, and I don't think you and I are that far off.

 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here, buddy! Just don't have the same point of view, and I think there definitely is ground between the comic and the OA. At the end of the day, most of us are in it for the nostalgia, not just for the actual physical art, and that can be expressed in various forms. And, putting the IDW AEs aside (as if they didn't exist), I definitely wouldn't settle for the lesser OA just to "have an example" (at least not in many/most cases). And neither would Scott Williams, apparently, with the available Born Again pages at least. So, I'm in good company!

 

Hey Gene,

 

Do you have an AE book and no desire to own any of the original art anymore (even though it's affordable or available)? That's the only way I'll be convinced that it scratches the itch. But of course we can agree to disagree

 

Hari

 

I'm just catching up on all these posts, and I'll let Gene clarify his own position since I think it's a little more nuanced than it seems. But for me, any AE does not offer a substitute for what OA I want to collect moving forward. There is a threshold of quality I look for in OA and if it's available and I can afford it, I will try and take it down. There is no substitute for the real thing when it comes to OA. But at this point in my collecting life, I do not buy "placeholder" pieces to fill out my OA collection, only "keepers". That's where an AE becomes a wonderful addition to my library as a bridge between what I collect and what just misses the cut, and in a way that in a way satisfies me in many of the same ways that OA satisfies, but far from all the ways.

 

And as an aside, it's hard for me to see any AE tamp down interest in corresponding OA collecting. I first started OA collecting in 1980, with lots of peaks and valleys. Eventually and for many reasons, my OA passions were stagnant. But around the year 2000, I discovered the early issues of Comic Book Artist which featured long articles and a lot of rarely seen production art by guys like Neal Adams and Bernie Wrighston among others and while CBA did not have the same production quality or scope as an AE, it completely reawakened my appreciation of such artists and the nostalgia attached to them. On a passion scale for OA collecting of 1 to 10, I went from about a 2 to an 11, and the final and biggest burst of my collecting cycle kicked in and hasn't stopped. It was exposure that got me so reinvigorated to this hobby, and I don't see any reason that that same type of exposure vis a vis AE's wouldn't have the same effect on a lot of other collectors out there. Just my 2 cents.

 

Scott

[delekkerste]

Hey Gene,

 

Do you have an AE book and no desire to own any of the original art anymore (even though it's affordable or available)? That's the only way I'll be convinced that it scratches the itch. But of course we can agree to disagree

 

Hari

 

Yes - Sergio Aragones' Groo the Wanderer AE. Not that I was absolutely dying to own a Groo original, but I would always throw in bids when they came up for auction and have come close on occasion. Now with the AE out, I don't really feel the need anymore. Now, Felix would probably argue that I didn't really want one badly enough in the first place. Maybe so, but I would characterize it as owning a good AE might scratch the itch of the "on the bubble" wants, while also reducing somewhat the amount I would pay for some things I still would really like to own an example of (of course, there are also examples that I really, really want on which it would have no effect). And, part of it is, as Felix alluded to, also a function of price - there may be things that are still available and affordable that I like (or even love), but simply don't feel that the money is worth it. While I'd probably pass on those even in the absence of an available AE, their existence just makes it that much easier.

 

None of which is to say that AEs will replace OA by any stretch of the imagination, but I do feel that, at least with me, they have some demand reducing impact at the margin. I don't really agree with your assessment that seeing the art in print can only help, much as the availability of TPBs have negatively impacted back issue demand somewhat in comics. Maybe that doesn't affect the super high grade CGC market (much as the AEs won't have a big impact on the big trophy OA pieces), but it certainly has had an impact on reducing the demand for lower grade examples, especially reader copies.

 

Different strokes for different folks, I guess!

[delekkerste]

There is a threshold of quality I look for in OA and if it's available and I can afford it, I will try and take it down. There is no substitute for the real thing when it comes to OA. But at this point in my collecting life, I do not buy "placeholder" pieces to fill out my OA collection, only "keepers". That's where an AE becomes a wonderful addition to my library as a bridge between what I collect and what just misses the cut, and in a way that in a way satisfies me in many of the same ways that OA satisfies, but far from all the ways.

 

I think that's really not far different from what I'm saying - an AE is not going to replace the stuff you really want to collect (unless prices spiral out of reach - then it may become a de facto substitute, even though the OA would remain unaffordable whether or not there was an AE). But, it may curb marginal demand for want list items that are either "on the bubble" or a "placeholder". The corollary to that all of this is also a function of price - if prices were very low, then maybe you don't care about lowering your standards a little and picking up those marginal pieces, and there's also less want/need for an AE among the more hardcore collectors. But, nowadays, a placeholder can easily cost $5-$10K for some artists, so an AE becomes that nice "bridge" that you describe.