Heritage February

[stinkininkin]

Is Year One still all with Mazz/ Miller, as far as anyone knows?

 

Yep, he has all of it.

 

Except for one of the covers.

 

Which cover?

 

The second cover, #405. This may be the piece Scott is referring to. Spencer had a blind auction for it right when I was getting into the hobby. I love that cover, but had higher priorities at the beginning of my collecting. IIRC, it went for around $15K.

 

I should have picked the way a savvy team approaches the amateur draft (i.e, draft the best available talent, rather than draft for need). I just didn't have the perspective then to recognize the true gems.

 

Now you've got me hedging. If I was 100% positive that I remembered this correctly, I'd say so, but since I can barely remember what I had for breakfast this morning, I'm going to back off on my claim until something in my brain shakes loose.

 

And no Bronty, I do not own this or any Mazz art...unfortunately.

 

Scott

 

 

 

No, it was this one...

 

 

Scott

 

Great piece! I could swear, though, that that piece is still in Mazz's possession, as it was included in an exhibition of his work in Spain (as well as MoCCA iirc), a couple of years ago. Or it could have been a similar piece. Or my memory is faulty.

 

I'm on the road, will try to find and post a link later.

[irchooker]

It was the advertisement, and not the cover, that Spence sold.

[Nexus]

Is Year One still all with Mazz/ Miller, as far as anyone knows?

 

Yep, he has all of it.

 

Except for one of the covers.

 

Which cover?

 

The second cover, #405. This may be the piece Scott is referring to. Spencer had a blind auction for it right when I was getting into the hobby. I love that cover, but had higher priorities at the beginning of my collecting. IIRC, it went for around $15K.

 

I should have picked the way a savvy team approaches the amateur draft (i.e, draft the best available talent, rather than draft for need). I just didn't have the perspective then to recognize the true gems.

 

No, it was this one...

 

 

Scott

 

Great piece! I could swear, though, that that piece is still in Mazz's possession, as it was included in an exhibition of his work in Spain (as well as MoCCA iirc), a couple of years ago. Or it could have been a similar piece. Or my memory is faulty.

 

I'm on the road, will try to find and post a link later.

 

Now you've got me hedging. If I was 100% positive that I remembered this correctly, I'd say so, but since I can barely remember what I had for breakfast this morning, I'm going to back off on my claim until something in my brain shakes loose.

 

And no Bronty, I do not own this or any Mazz art...unfortunately.

 

Scott

 

 

(Reformatted your reply for clarification.)

 

Check out this link:

 

http://mattmadden.blogspot.com/2009/06/summer-intensive-day-last-part-2-mocca_17.html

 

I couldn't find a pic of the entire piece in the exhibit, but scroll down and this pic appears:

 

 

It's a closeup of the leg of the same piece, taken at the exhibit. As I said, I remember seeing this piece in reviews of the Mazz exhibit, both at MoCCA and a retrospective in Spain...I'm just having much luck finding those reviews again all these years later! It's possible that someone had bought this earlier and loaned it to the show, but my understanding was that everything in the show came from Mazz himself. Including BA and Y1.

 

This is a sweet Mazz Batman...it's just not quite representative of Mazz's Y1 Batman to me. This looks like a prototype-- the ears are longer and there's excess detail in the cape drape and boot creases. He's still working things out. I'd love to have it anyway, of course, but it's also one other reason why I prefer the #405 cover.

 

Anyhow, not challenging that Spencer may have made this available at some point...but based on anecdotal evidence, it appears Mazz may still have it.

[Nexus]

It was the advertisement, and not the cover, that Spence sold.

 

I don't know if Spencer sold the ad, but he definitely sold the cover. As I said, I was peripherally involved in bidding (I decided to buy something else and ultimately refrained from outbidding the high bidder). As it turns out, a friend won the cover. I've seen it. I've held it in my hands. It's stunning. I made the wrong decision.

[Nexus]

You guys might not have been surprised by that price. But you know who was? Heritage. How else can you explain it being up for auction during a random Sunday event instead of the big one in February??

 

Perhaps the seller thought he would benefit from the lack of distraction. There was no chance of that page going unnoticed. Its the best of the best, a top ten panel page from the number one DD arc, quintessential Miller/Mazz (which for some of us is equal to or better than Miller alone). Until someone starts throwing up some Batman:Year One pages, this was IT.

 

Bear in mind that serious collectors have want lists on file with HA and get emails from them every week (almost every day!). When a desirable page comes up it really doesn't matter which auction it's in.

 

Has there been any Batman: Year One pages made available? Any promo pieces?

 

I have a pinup that was auctioned for charity in the early 2000s. I've been told alternately that it was a piece that was done specifically for that charity and that it was an unused cover for a later collection. I hope to see Mazzucchelli again some time so I can ask him directly. Either way, I'm happy to have it as it's the probably the closest I'll get to a Y1 piece at this point. It still looks like Y1 to me. Some of his more recent Batman drawings have moved toward a more polished style that, while still Mazz, doesn't evoke Y1 in the same way for me.

[drdroom]

You guys might not have been surprised by that price. But you know who was? Heritage. How else can you explain it being up for auction during a random Sunday event instead of the big one in February??

 

Perhaps the seller thought he would benefit from the lack of distraction. There was no chance of that page going unnoticed. Its the best of the best, a top ten panel page from the number one DD arc, quintessential Miller/Mazz (which for some of us is equal to or better than Miller alone). Until someone starts throwing up some Batman:Year One pages, this was IT.

 

Bear in mind that serious collectors have want lists on file with HA and get emails from them every week (almost every day!). When a desirable page comes up it really doesn't matter which auction it's in.

 

Has there been any Batman: Year One pages made available? Any promo pieces?

 

I have a pinup that was auctioned for charity in the early 2000s. I've been told alternately that it was a piece that was done specifically for that charity and that it was an unused cover for a later collection. I hope to see Mazzucchelli again some time so I can ask him directly. Either way, I'm happy to have it as it's the probably the closest I'll get to a Y1 piece at this point. It still looks like Y1 to me. Some of his more recent Batman drawings have moved toward a more polished style that, while still Mazz, doesn't evoke Y1 in the same way for me.

 

I don't see this piece in your CAF gallery… hint...

[disruptive_one]

That Batman Splash is a lot nicer than I expected.

[suspense39]

Eisner splash

 

Krazy kat strip

 

Tracy Sunday

 

depends on what shows up.

[Nexus]

I don't see this piece in your CAF gallery… hint...

 

I'll get it up there soon. Had a scan, but can't find it. So will have to re-scan.

 

I just remembered that the main reason I didn't pursue the #405 cover more aggressively was that I assumed its sale meant that there would be more Y1 art to be offered. Why stop at one? As well, I would have been happy with an interior, which would presumably cost less than the cover. Whoops. In hindsight, not grabbing the cover was a huge mistake.

 

For completely different reasons, also whiffed on two of the best standalone BA images:

 

 

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one with these regrets!

[stinkininkin]

I don't see this piece in your CAF gallery… hint...

 

I'll get it up there soon. Had a scan, but can't find it. So will have to re-scan.

 

I just remembered that the main reason I didn't pursue the #405 cover more aggressively was that I assumed its sale meant that there would be more Y1 art to be offered. Why stop at one? As well, I would have been happy with an interior, which would presumably cost less than the cover. Whoops. In hindsight, not grabbing the cover was a huge mistake.

 

For completely different reasons, also whiffed on two of the best standalone BA images:

 

 

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one with these regrets!

 

Perhaps, but while Born Again is in my top 3 all time favorite comic book stories, I wasn't a big fan of it's finish when it got to the Nuke subplot. Just a personal bias but even now, with the limited availability of BA pages, I'm not sure I would go hard after these Nuke centric art pages. I'd much rather have something from the earlier BA issues, or better yet, a complete issue like one of our board members has. That would certainly scratch my itch! (thumbs u

 

Scott

[delekkerste]

Perhaps, but while Born Again is in my top 3 all time favorite comic book stories, I wasn't a big fan of it's finish when it got to the Nuke subplot. Just a personal bias but even now, with the limited availability of BA pages, I'm not sure I would go hard after these Nuke centric art pages. I'd much rather have something from the earlier BA issues, or better yet, a complete issue like one of our board members has. That would certainly scratch my itch! (thumbs u

 

Scott

 

+1

 

While you can break up "Born Again" into pre-Nuke and the Nuke subplot issues, for me, #227 stands alone on another level as the best issue of the run, then the rest of the pre-Nuke issues (#228-231) and then #232-233. Like yourself, I have never had a strong interest in the available art from the Nuke subplot issues - they're not bad, but they just seem like an unnecessary coda to the main storyline (and it's become horribly dated since the end of the Reagan era). In fact, as long as the pages that resonate the most with me remain unavailable, I'd just as soon content myself with owning the Mazzuchelli Born Again Artist's Edition for $150! I don't know if the AE would scratch the itch if pages from the other issues were available, but, if I have to settle, I'd rather pay $150 for near-perfect reproductions of the entire storyline than spending 5-figures for a page from an issue that doesn't really do it for me.

[medusanyc]

forgive my ignorance but what is a BSD??

[irchooker]

It was the advertisement, and not the cover, that Spence sold.

 

I don't know if Spencer sold the ad, but he definitely sold the cover. As I said, I was peripherally involved in bidding (I decided to buy something else and ultimately refrained from outbidding the high bidder). As it turns out, a friend won the cover. I've seen it. I've held it in my hands. It's stunning. I made the wrong decision.

 

I clearly misremembered this whole thing (though perhaps the advert was sold). An easy google search: http://outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed.com/nhquh3x with a search of Batman 405 and there it is.

 

What's New 11/11/05

 

A Special Private Auction is being held for the Original Cover Artwork to Batman Issue 405, Part 2 of the Year One Saga by David Mazzucchelli. Please click on the scan of the main page or on David's page for all the details.

 

Reservations are now

 

I have the jpeg on a hard drive, but I also have the advert image.

 

I seem to recall the number that was mentioned at the time was 15k, perhaps that was the lowest acceptable bid via the process, which was sealed single bid, I believe. I searched through my email, but the oldest Mazz/Batman reference I came up with was in '07, a few year too late.

 

 

[delekkerste]

forgive my ignorance but what is a BSD??

 

Urban Dictionary definition of BSD

 

The term came into vogue with the publication of Michael Lewis' breakout book "Liar's Poker" in the early '90s.

[J.Sid]

This brings up an interesting question that probably deserves its own thread: Do Artist's Editions INCREASE or DECREASE demand for a piece of art contained in the volume. On one hand, the piece has been 'highlighted' and given a certain amount of prestige by its inclusion in these beautiful books.

 

On the other hand though, like Gene says, how many potential buyers would opt not to bid on something and just pick up a copy of the book?

 

(I personally like the idea of something being included. I'd love a Wally Wood page or a Simonson Thor page that's been included in the AE treatment.)

 

 

Perhaps, but while Born Again is in my top 3 all time favorite comic book stories, I wasn't a big fan of it's finish when it got to the Nuke subplot. Just a personal bias but even now, with the limited availability of BA pages, I'm not sure I would go hard after these Nuke centric art pages. I'd much rather have something from the earlier BA issues, or better yet, a complete issue like one of our board members has. That would certainly scratch my itch! (thumbs u

 

Scott

 

+1

 

While you can break up "Born Again" into pre-Nuke and the Nuke subplot issues, for me, #227 stands alone on another level as the best issue of the run, then the rest of the pre-Nuke issues (#228-231) and then #232-233. Like yourself, I have never had a strong interest in the available art from the Nuke subplot issues - they're not bad, but they just seem like an unnecessary coda to the main storyline (and it's become horribly dated since the end of the Reagan era). In fact, as long as the pages that resonate the most with me remain unavailable, I'd just as soon content myself with owning the Mazzuchelli Born Again Artist's Edition for $150! I don't know if the AE would scratch the itch if pages from the other issues were available, but, if I have to settle, I'd rather pay $150 for near-perfect reproductions of the entire storyline than spending 5-figures for a page from an issue that doesn't really do it for me.

[Nexus]

Perhaps, but while Born Again is in my top 3 all time favorite comic book stories, I wasn't a big fan of it's finish when it got to the Nuke subplot. Just a personal bias but even now, with the limited availability of BA pages, I'm not sure I would go hard after these Nuke centric art pages. I'd much rather have something from the earlier BA issues, or better yet, a complete issue like one of our board members has. That would certainly scratch my itch! (thumbs u

 

Scott

 

+1

 

While you can break up "Born Again" into pre-Nuke and the Nuke subplot issues, for me, #227 stands alone on another level as the best issue of the run, then the rest of the pre-Nuke issues (#228-231) and then #232-233. Like yourself, I have never had a strong interest in the available art from the Nuke subplot issues - they're not bad, but they just seem like an unnecessary coda to the main storyline (and it's become horribly dated since the end of the Reagan era). In fact, as long as the pages that resonate the most with me remain unavailable, I'd just as soon content myself with owning the Mazzuchelli Born Again Artist's Edition for $150! I don't know if the AE would scratch the itch if pages from the other issues were available, but, if I have to settle, I'd rather pay $150 for near-perfect reproductions of the entire storyline than spending 5-figures for a page from an issue that doesn't really do it for me.

 

You guys are certainly not the only ones who liked the first half more than the second. But the ending worked for me. Beyond that, if I can only have one page...I'd prefer to have one of DD in costume, rather than one of Matt Murdock, even if the latter is more representative of the BA story. Can't help it!

 

Also, whatever criticism readers may have about Nuke and his introduction into the story, the premise of the character is sadly, anything but dated. Elaborating would just take this discussion into an entirely different direction, so I'll just say that I disagree about that point.

[Nexus]

This brings up an interesting question that probably deserves its own thread: Do Artist's Editions INCREASE or DECREASE demand for a piece of art contained in the volume. On one hand, the piece has been 'highlighted' and given a certain amount of prestige by its inclusion in these beautiful books.

 

On the other hand though, like Gene says, how many potential buyers would opt not to bid on something and just pick up a copy of the book?

 

(I personally like the idea of something being included. I'd love a Wally Wood page or a Simonson Thor page that's been included in the AE treatment.)

 

I think it depends on the collector in question. For some, the AE will be enough to scratch the itch. But I suspect that's really only true for something that particular collector admires more than loves. For others (such as me), the AE's are like catalogs. I'm only buying the AE because I love the work and I want to eventually own an original.

 

In terms of the overall market, the AEs, at the very least, haven't seemed to hurt values for originals. Case in point, BORN AGAIN hasn't gotten any cheaper! I suspect more get an itch rather than have their itch scratched, on the whole.

[lb jefferies]

Perhaps, but while Born Again is in my top 3 all time favorite comic book stories, I wasn't a big fan of it's finish when it got to the Nuke subplot. Just a personal bias but even now, with the limited availability of BA pages, I'm not sure I would go hard after these Nuke centric art pages. I'd much rather have something from the earlier BA issues, or better yet, a complete issue like one of our board members has. That would certainly scratch my itch! (thumbs u

 

Scott

 

+1

[delekkerste]

I think it depends on the collector in question. For some, the AE will be enough to scratch the itch. But I suspect that's really only true for something that particular collector admires more than loves. For others (such as me), the AE's are like catalogs. I'm only buying the AE because I love the work and I want to eventually own an original.

 

I think your suspicion is partly true, but is overlooking two other BIG potential dynamics:

 

1. The collector LOVES the art/storyline in question, but the better examples of the run are simply not available. That pegs Simonson Thor and Miller/Mazz Born Again to a tee for me. These are two of my all-time favorite runs, but I'm not going to be satisfied with just owning a later Simonson Thor page inked by Wiacek any more than I'd be satisfied with a Nuke page from Born Again.

 

Also, I hear you about preferring a DD page in costume - normally, that would be my preference too, but "Born Again" is anything but a normal storyline. For me, a DD in costume battling Nuke page is about as satisfying to me as a DD #168 page without Elektra or a GSXM #1 page that doesn't have any new X-Men on it. Not that they aren't still cool pages, but those aren't the pages you'd really love to have from the storyline.

 

Which brings me to:

 

2. The collector LOVES the art/storyline in question, but feels that the art is overpriced, out of his budget range and/or feels that he can only afford a sub-par example. ASM #98 is one of my all-time favorite Spidey issues, but, , $400K for the complete story...yeah, if I LOVED LOVED LOVED it, maybe I could theoretically have bought it, but what if I merely "loved" it? $200 for the Gil Kane Artist's Edition and, wham, Itch. Scratched!

 

Like yourself, I grew up with '80s comics and many of my favorite and most nostalgic titles and storylines are from that era. However, i also think that, almost by definition, there is almost zero chance that future generations will appreciate this material as much as we do and, given today's prevailing prices, I'm not sure buying a lot of this material is the best use of my money. Now, if I LOVE LOVE LOVE something like that Paul Smith Uncanny X-Men #173 page I bought, I'll bite the bullet, overpay and lock in a near-certain future loss. But, again, what if I merely "love" something? Well, yeah, then an AE can definitely go a long way in affordably rekindling that nostalgia without having to write a fat check. You may argue that this just means that I don't love it enough, but I'd just say that I don't have to buy originals of everything I love. Heck, it even works the other way - some of the art from the storylines I love the most may just be so cheap to the point where it's not really that collectible (e.g., McLeod early New Mutants pages), and that just having the original comics, or a TPB, or an AE is definitely enough to scratch that nostalgic itch.

[delekkerste]

Also, whatever criticism readers may have about Nuke and his introduction into the story, the premise of the character is sadly, anything but dated. Elaborating would just take this discussion into an entirely different direction, so I'll just say that I disagree about that point.

 

The premise of the character might not be dated, but the execution sure is. Nuke is post-Vietnam, First Blood/Rambo and Iran/Contra all wrapped up in the Reagan '80s. I can see how a similar character might be introduced today (like an "Ultimate" version of Nuke), but the character wouldn't look anything like the Born Again version.