A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes? 5 5

[Koa]

Is that Mcfarlane piece really faded or is it the pelikin ink Todd would use sometimes. I used it in art class after I read Todd mention it and ended up with that brown look. hated it.

 

No, it's typical of Sharpie work, not Pelican ink. I guarantee it's sharpie.

 

Scott

 

Okay.

 

You mentioned inking Wolverine's trunks with a sharpie on the other Mcspidey page. Can i ask why? Because the rest of the page is so carefully inked, even the spot blacks are filled pitch black like you did 2 coats. Seems an odd choice for that small section

 

 

[Koa]

I wouldn't mind having pages professionally restored… I ESPECIALLY wouldn't mind somebody re-filling in the spotted blacks.

 

Question for Scott: Has anyone ever commissioned you to restore a faded piece originally inked by someone other than yourself?

 

If they can restore the Sistine Chapel, why not a McFarlane Amazing Spider-Man splash?

 

Yes.

 

Scott

 

No need to be coy. (I kid, I kid! )

 

From the CGC Boards, 7/27/2010:

 

Yes, guilty as charged. I re-inked all the faded marker work from the page in question [the Uncanny X-Men #133 end splash]. And with all due respect Hari, I think the page looked like hell when Albert commissioned me 3 or 4 years ago, so besides being paid for my service, I felt I was rescuing the piece from some hideously drastic fading. It was beyond an eyesore, and not in the way that glue stains or random white out can be, but more like something that was damaged. In the end, I was quite satisfied with the final result, and would defy anyone to be able to distinguish my line from Terry's. This is as much as anything due to the fact that Terry had a super clean, almost mechanical line at this time, which is the type of line easiest to "ghost" for an inker, as opposed to an expressive, organic line. My goal was to be as invisible and unobtrusive as humanly possible, and in my mind I succeeded. I can see how this might rub some people the wrong way, but it is what it is.

 

I don't know how common this practice is. I was asked at this years Comic Con by Joe M at All Star to do some similar restoration on a couple of Neal Adams Batman pages that had marker work by Adams that was badly faded and water damaged. For various reasons I won't go into, I declined.

 

If Albert sold or tried to sell this piece without full disclosure, tell me, and I will give him holy hell. Seems unlikely to me. But, I wonder if I should have noted and dated my work somehow in the margin or on the back of the page since it seems less and less likely that disclosure will be made as the piece changes hands. The quality of the piece won't fade, but the history of it might and that's a problem.

 

So bring out those torches and pitchforks, and I'll be waiting for you at the top of the windmill!

 

Scott Williams

 

Does an extensive restoration like this effect the value? I've seen at least one other Byrne/Austin Uncanny page that was badly faded.

 

I'm conflicted about this. If I was going to keep the page permanently having someone like scott who has a history with the X-men restore it would be my choice but if it was something I knew i was going to resell in the future I'd be more than a little nervous having it re-inked. Even by Austin. A restoration must be fairly expensive as well.

 

On the other hand, i imagine this was in horrible condition, probably sepia which would likely effect the value in the open market negatively. So what choice does one really have.

 

Comic book fans tend to be OCD when it comes to what they like and some might view this as sacrilege.

 

Same with the Mcfarlane page. Pages that are inked by other artists rarely com near the prices McFarlane inked pages pull on the Spider-man. Some fans are very particular about that

Edited February 28, 2014 by KingKoa

[J.Sid]

All this thread is doing is making me kick myself for not throwing a couple bids onto that faded McFarlane splash.

[stinkininkin]

I don't think there is a one size fits all answer about whether faded marker inks should be re-inked. Too many factors. How bad was the fading? Was it damaged and an eyesore or was it just "showing it's age"? Who decides it's an eyesore? Who is doing the re-inking? Is the new ink artist capable of working in the appropriate style? Should it only be the original inker, but what if the original inker's skills have faded or his style has changed/evolved over time? Does an expert re-ink add or maintain the value of a fading piece, or does it de-value or even taint the fading piece, no matter how expertly done?

 

There are probably many more considerations. I'll go back to an original point that I think most collectors WOULD agree on, and that's one of disclosure, and perhaps even attribution. The more informed the collector, the better in this regard, and then let them make the choice.

 

I do know that for me, there are circumstances I would restore/re-ink faded work, and there are circumstances where I would not. I would determine that on a case by case basis. As a collector myself, those same determinations would apply on something I might add to my collection. Again, each collector can make that choice on their own, but only if it's an informed choice. And that might be the biggest challenge moving forward.

 

Scott

[stinkininkin]

I wouldn't mind having pages professionally restored… I ESPECIALLY wouldn't mind somebody re-filling in the spotted blacks.

 

Question for Scott: Has anyone ever commissioned you to restore a faded piece originally inked by someone other than yourself?

 

If they can restore the Sistine Chapel, why not a McFarlane Amazing Spider-Man splash?

 

Yes.

 

Scott

 

No need to be coy. (I kid, I kid! )

 

From the CGC Boards, 7/27/2010:

 

Yes, guilty as charged. I re-inked all the faded marker work from the page in question [the Uncanny X-Men #133 end splash]. And with all due respect Hari, I think the page looked like hell when Albert commissioned me 3 or 4 years ago, so besides being paid for my service, I felt I was rescuing the piece from some hideously drastic fading. It was beyond an eyesore, and not in the way that glue stains or random white out can be, but more like something that was damaged. In the end, I was quite satisfied with the final result, and would defy anyone to be able to distinguish my line from Terry's. This is as much as anything due to the fact that Terry had a super clean, almost mechanical line at this time, which is the type of line easiest to "ghost" for an inker, as opposed to an expressive, organic line. My goal was to be as invisible and unobtrusive as humanly possible, and in my mind I succeeded. I can see how this might rub some people the wrong way, but it is what it is.

 

I don't know how common this practice is. I was asked at this years Comic Con by Joe M at All Star to do some similar restoration on a couple of Neal Adams Batman pages that had marker work by Adams that was badly faded and water damaged. For various reasons I won't go into, I declined.

 

If Albert sold or tried to sell this piece without full disclosure, tell me, and I will give him holy hell. Seems unlikely to me. But, I wonder if I should have noted and dated my work somehow in the margin or on the back of the page since it seems less and less likely that disclosure will be made as the piece changes hands. The quality of the piece won't fade, but the history of it might and that's a problem.

 

So bring out those torches and pitchforks, and I'll be waiting for you at the top of the windmill!

 

Scott Williams

 

Sure wish I had thought to make a copy or a scan of this finished piece. Does anybody know who's collection this resides in and could a scan be made for me? If so, please PM me.

 

Scott

[heartened]

$20-30k

 

McFarlane Spidey

 

The ASM 322 splash just sold at CLink for $16,888. This is why I have a problem with McSpidey being $20-$30K - this is a good-looking, p. 1 splash from the main Spidey title featuring a pretty darn good, large, front-facing, full-body Spidey action shot with one of the more memorable supporting cast (Silver Sable) from the run, with lots of good detail to boot. This is a solid A splash as far as I'm concerned, and it finished closer to $15K than $20K.

 

While I'm sure there are McSpidey interiors that would fetch $20-$30K, I think they might more properly be classified as A+ pages.

 

I gotta disagree with you, Gene. I thought the inks looked faded, especially on Spidey, and I avoided bidding on this one because of that. I'm sure there are others who felt the same.

 

How much of a discount do you think that (may have) resulted in? Still looks well bought to me, and, given the McSpidey auction results over the past year, this is far from the only data point that suggests that McSpidey interiors are not where they were as recently as 2012.

 

Yup. While I don't doubt that the faded inks suppressed bidding, it does seem that market fatigue has set in for anything less than A+ McFarlane. This has also happened with DKR. Some tapping of the brakes on an otherwise runaway train.

 

The DKR pages seem to still be pretty strong, no? Hard to get anything with Bat man or Joker on it for less than 25K. Even the one in CLink when for that range. Exceptional pages the sky's the limit still.

 

[heartened]

Not speaking to this piece specifically but I walk away from pieces with faded inks because the fading only stands a chance to get worse and not better.

 

It would have to be a significant discount to make me even consider a piece that in the process of "fading to gray".

 

+1

 

It's why I would never consider going after a Death of Capt. Marvel page.

 

Scott

 

DOCM is a key book. All the pages are done in maker. Some are faded more than others, but some are really in great shape still. I used to own probably 8-10 pages from the book and the differences are large. The importance of this book outweighs the fading issue though, in my opinion. The pages are beautiful, oversized, and the story is great. Worth having a page in the collection, regardless of the fading.

 

[stinkininkin]

Not speaking to this piece specifically but I walk away from pieces with faded inks because the fading only stands a chance to get worse and not better.

 

It would have to be a significant discount to make me even consider a piece that in the process of "fading to gray".

 

+1

 

It's why I would never consider going after a Death of Capt. Marvel page.

 

Scott

 

DOCM is a key book. All the pages are done in maker. Some are faded more than others, but some are really in great shape still. I used to own probably 8-10 pages from the book and the differences are large. The importance of this book outweighs the fading issue though, in my opinion. The pages are beautiful, oversized, and the story is great. Worth having a page in the collection, regardless of the fading.

 

OK, a caveat. If I found a great page that had been preserved so that fading was almost non existent, I'd be a buyer. But all those pages that have already turned purple or light brown? Pass baby!

 

Scott

[heartened]

I wouldn't mind having pages professionally restored… I ESPECIALLY wouldn't mind somebody re-filling in the spotted blacks.

 

Question for Scott: Has anyone ever commissioned you to restore a faded piece originally inked by someone other than yourself?

 

If they can restore the Sistine Chapel, why not a McFarlane Amazing Spider-Man splash?

 

Yes.

 

Scott

 

No need to be coy. (I kid, I kid! )

 

From the CGC Boards, 7/27/2010:

 

Yes, guilty as charged. I re-inked all the faded marker work from the page in question [the Uncanny X-Men #133 end splash]. And with all due respect Hari, I think the page looked like hell when Albert commissioned me 3 or 4 years ago, so besides being paid for my service, I felt I was rescuing the piece from some hideously drastic fading. It was beyond an eyesore, and not in the way that glue stains or random white out can be, but more like something that was damaged. In the end, I was quite satisfied with the final result, and would defy anyone to be able to distinguish my line from Terry's. This is as much as anything due to the fact that Terry had a super clean, almost mechanical line at this time, which is the type of line easiest to "ghost" for an inker, as opposed to an expressive, organic line. My goal was to be as invisible and unobtrusive as humanly possible, and in my mind I succeeded. I can see how this might rub some people the wrong way, but it is what it is.

 

I don't know how common this practice is. I was asked at this years Comic Con by Joe M at All Star to do some similar restoration on a couple of Neal Adams Batman pages that had marker work by Adams that was badly faded and water damaged. For various reasons I won't go into, I declined.

 

If Albert sold or tried to sell this piece without full disclosure, tell me, and I will give him holy hell. Seems unlikely to me. But, I wonder if I should have noted and dated my work somehow in the margin or on the back of the page since it seems less and less likely that disclosure will be made as the piece changes hands. The quality of the piece won't fade, but the history of it might and that's a problem.

 

So bring out those torches and pitchforks, and I'll be waiting for you at the top of the windmill!

 

Scott Williams

 

Does an extensive restoration like this effect the value? I've seen at least one other Byrne/Austin Uncanny page that was badly faded.

 

I'm conflicted about this. If I was going to keep the page permanently having someone like scott who has a history with the X-men restore it would be my choice but if it was something I knew i was going to resell in the future I'd be more than a little nervous having it re-inked. Even by Austin. A restoration must be fairly expensive as well.

 

On the other hand, i imagine this was in horrible condition, probably sepia which would likely effect the value in the open market negatively. So what choice does one really have.

 

Comic book fans tend to be OCD when it comes to what they like and some might view this as sacrilege.

 

Same with the Mcfarlane page. Pages that are inked by other artists rarely com near the prices McFarlane inked pages pull on the Spider-man. Some fans are very particular about that

 

This was a long time ago, thanks for posting Gene. For what it's worth, I think it's sacrilege. I still don't think the piece was as bad as it is being made out to be prior to the restoration/reinking, but maybe it's just that I love seeing the original art, warts and all. Also, there's no way in Hell I'd want something re-inked, even if done perfectly like this. That's just me. But, you gotta figure it takes some big bids out of the equation if this comes up for sale one day.

 

I also agree that people's memories fade. Absolutely when this happens people should make note and resign it as a reinking or something; that's only fair and accurate. When Scott did this, it wasn't the norm to sign it like that, but hopefully people will do this going forward if they have this sort of work done.

 

[heartened]

I don't think there is a one size fits all answer about whether faded marker inks should be re-inked. Too many factors. How bad was the fading? Was it damaged and an eyesore or was it just "showing it's age"? Who decides it's an eyesore? Who is doing the re-inking? Is the new ink artist capable of working in the appropriate style? Should it only be the original inker, but what if the original inker's skills have faded or his style has changed/evolved over time? Does an expert re-ink add or maintain the value of a fading piece, or does it de-value or even taint the fading piece, no matter how expertly done?

 

There are probably many more considerations. I'll go back to an original point that I think most collectors WOULD agree on, and that's one of disclosure, and perhaps even attribution. The more informed the collector, the better in this regard, and then let them make the choice.

 

I do know that for me, there are circumstances I would restore/re-ink faded work, and there are circumstances where I would not. I would determine that on a case by case basis. As a collector myself, those same determinations would apply on something I might add to my collection. Again, each collector can make that choice on their own, but only if it's an informed choice. And that might be the biggest challenge moving forward.

 

Scott

 

DOCM pages remain beautiful, faded but uniformly so. Not an eyesore at all; the only problem is potential for further fading. But, in all honesty they will outlive us all if kept away from sunlight.

 

The UXM page was more of an issue because it was partly in marker and partly in ink, so the marker was fading while the rest was not. Some might consider that an eyesore; I did not. I thought it unfortunate, and I'm sure it affected the asking price, but personally did not seem like a reason to reink it. This is of course subjective, and at the end of the day it's up to the current owner and the potential re-inker to decide. Just offering my two cents, as I'm friends with both in this case. But friends can agree to disagree

 

[heartened]

Not speaking to this piece specifically but I walk away from pieces with faded inks because the fading only stands a chance to get worse and not better.

 

It would have to be a significant discount to make me even consider a piece that in the process of "fading to gray".

 

+1

 

It's why I would never consider going after a Death of Capt. Marvel page.

 

Scott

 

DOCM is a key book. All the pages are done in maker. Some are faded more than others, but some are really in great shape still. I used to own probably 8-10 pages from the book and the differences are large. The importance of this book outweighs the fading issue though, in my opinion. The pages are beautiful, oversized, and the story is great. Worth having a page in the collection, regardless of the fading.

 

OK, a caveat. If I found a great page that had been preserved so that fading was almost non existent, I'd be a buyer. But all those pages that have already turned purple or light brown? Pass baby!

 

Scott

 

There are definitely some preserved pages; they are of course never offered for sale

 

[J.Sid]

The DKR pages seem to still be pretty strong, no? Hard to get anything with Bat man or Joker on it for less than 25K. Even the one in CLink when for that range. Exceptional pages the sky's the limit still.

 

Yes and no. $25k is not cheap. But on the other hand, those first few that auctioned all sold for $38k, $40k, etc...

[heartened]

The DKR pages seem to still be pretty strong, no? Hard to get anything with Bat man or Joker on it for less than 25K. Even the one in CLink when for that range. Exceptional pages the sky's the limit still.

 

Yes and no. $25k is not cheap. But on the other hand, those first few that auctioned all sold for $38k, $40k, etc...

 

Weren't they better pages? That's my recollection, although need to go back and look.

 

[J.Sid]

All depends on what you value, but if you're judging them by how good a shot of Batman is on the page, I think you can see a clear downward trend since that first one of this flurry showed its face 3 years ago.

 

I do know some collectors value story content and -script on the page (particularly with this series) higher than a good shot of Batman though, soooo….

[delekkerste]

All depends on what you value, but if you're judging them by how good a shot of Batman is on the page, I think you can see a clear downward trend since that first one of this flurry showed its face 3 years ago.

 

Agreed. It's hard to remember now, but DKR pages were actually once hard to find, and multiple examples didn't show up in every quarterly auction cycle! As such, B+ pages would routinely fetch $40K (plus or minus $5K) when they appeared. But, you know what they say, there's no cure for high prices like high prices, and these auction results really brought out a supply response. As such, a lot of A/A- pages now fetch what B+/B pages fetched a few years ago. To the outsider, the prices might not look like they've changed much, but those dollars now buy a better caliber of DKR page.

 

It's actually a little crazy if you think about it - prime OA has gone up a lot in the past several years, but DKR prices haven't really participated at all, except at the A+ end of the spectrum.

[stinkininkin]

All depends on what you value, but if you're judging them by how good a shot of Batman is on the page, I think you can see a clear downward trend since that first one of this flurry showed its face 3 years ago.

 

Agreed. It's hard to remember now, but DKR pages were actually once hard to find, and multiple examples didn't show up in every quarterly auction cycle! As such, B+ pages would routinely fetch $40K (plus or minus $5K) when they appeared. But, you know what they say, there's no cure for high prices like high prices, and these auction results really brought out a supply response. As such, a lot of A/A- pages now fetch what B+/B pages fetched a few years ago. To the outsider, the prices might not look like they've changed much, but those dollars now buy a better caliber of DKR page.

 

It's actually a little crazy if you think about it - prime OA has gone up a lot in the past several years, but DKR prices haven't really participated at all, except at the A+ end of the spectrum.

 

Other than the DK splash, have there been any A+ INTERIORS to have hit the market publicly (or privately)? I know about the two unused Janson inked death of Joker pages which sold privately a year or two ago (which were A+ in content, but not "published"), and not sure if there is anything else known that could be gauged as A+(or even A) DK interiors to test the theory.

 

Scott

[The-Collector]

Where would you guys put the following:

 

Daniel Clowes

Chris Ware

Charles Burns

Geof Darrow

Vaughn Bode

[suspense39]

Where would you guys put the following:

 

Daniel Clowes

Chris Ware

Charles Burns

Geof Darrow

Vaughn Bode

 

In my collection

[The-Collector]

Where would you guys put the following:

 

Daniel Clowes

Chris Ware

Charles Burns

Geof Darrow

Vaughn Bode

 

In my collection

 

Want to sell me some? 1 million pms sent...

[suspense39]

Where would you guys put the following:

 

Daniel Clowes

Chris Ware

Charles Burns

Geof Darrow

Vaughn Bode

 

In my collection

 

Want to sell me some? 1 million pms sent...

 

I'm still looking for a burns and a ware myself.....hard to find, there were definitely more available a few years ago