A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes? 5 5

[lb jefferies]

But I'll say right now that if anyone has ANY pure Leach pages that they find (Leach pencils and inks), I'll put a standing offer of 10k for each and any one from now through 2016. I won't go back on my word Any takers?

 

One crazy person does not a real market make.

 

It does through 2016.

 

 

What the hell happens in 2016?

 

The new Gaiman run finishes. Figured it's as good a stop time as any.

 

Ah, I see. Good. I thought there was some kind of Mayan prediction I was unaware of.

[Bronty]

It will be interesting to see what happens to the price of the original eclipse books once the marvels are out. Will 15 take a tumble? Or will the added exposure help the price?

[heartened]

It will be interesting to see what happens to the price of the original eclipse books once the marvels are out. Will 15 take a tumble? Or will the added exposure help the price?

 

Looks like we're sidetracking the discussion. There is a thread on the copper age forums on miracleman - we should take this discussion over there.

 

[Bronty]

[romitaman]

As a side note to the romita Sr asm market..... i cant quite remember the actual price but didnt an asm 43 page...which was promoted as being mary janes second appearance (after he appears in the ever classic asm 42 last page)..it's just a character page from asm 43 with pete mj, aunt may, and anna may watson all sitting at a table talking...... and it sold for around 33k on ebay?

a year or 2 ago.

 

i remembered at the time thinking id easily get it for in the 20k and i sure was wrong on that one...i didnt think a second appearance Mjv page would go so high...but obviousdly i was wrong.

 

Now i'm not saying this is the market at all for mj romita pages......as its not.....but that to some people.... certain peices are gold...based on title and content.

[Phill the Governor]

As a side note to the romita Sr asm market..... i cant quite remember the actual price but didnt an asm 43 page...which was promoted as being mary janes second appearance (after he appears in the ever classic asm 42 last page)..it's just a character page from asm 43 with pete mj, aunt may, and anna may watson all sitting at a table talking...... and it sold for around 33k on ebay?

a year or 2 ago.

 

i remembered at the time thinking id easily get it for in the 20k and i sure was wrong on that one...i didnt think a second appearance Mjv page would go so high...but obviousdly i was wrong.

 

Now i'm not saying this is the market at all for mj romita pages......as its not.....but that to some people.... certain peices are gold...based on title and content.

 

This is something that I only recently discovered. I recently paid prices WAY above what I know market value is, or at least what most other collectors would pay for, on a few pieces. But that's the nature of collecting (if you can afford it) You'll pay above what are considered rational prices to most for what you consider "gold" because you just don't give a mess.

 

That's what it comes down to. And that's why some market prices increase so rapidly sometimes. All it takes are a few people to think of the content as gold and everyone else pays more for it too. Or they're priced out. :shrug:

Edited January 18, 2014 by Phillip

[heartened]

I guess no one has the guts to do a cover values list? Anyone want to start us off?

[lb jefferies]

[Nexus]

IMO, the sample size is generally too small when it comes to covers to be able to come up with an extensive like this one.

[Nexus]

To clarify, the sample size in terms of the absolute number of covers AND actual sales is too small to make a meaningful list. Even more so when we are limiting it to A examples. Again, my opinion.

[drdroom]

Suppose we (by which I mean, not me) were to take the data points that exist for covers, and calculate them as a percentage of the page prices we've already settled on for the equivalent run (where applicable), thus to learn whether there is a semi-consistent relationship across the board?

[Nexus]

Suppose we (by which I mean, not me) were to take the data points that exist for covers, and calculate them as a percentage of the page prices we've already settled on for the equivalent run (where applicable), thus to learn whether there is a semi-consistent relationship across the board?

 

It might be a fun exercise, but my hunch is that the eventual conclusion will be that there is no such relationship. True "A" covers have always been the undisputed trophy pieces of the hobby and will continue to sell for whatever they sell for.

 

A more interesting exercise might be to compare "B" cover values vs. "A" interiors from the same series. "B" covers being more common, and thus, easier to come up with a range. Covers are almost always valued higher than interiors; A B/C cover will be valued higher by collectors than an A interior, just by virtue of the fact that it's a cover. Often times (most times?), a B/C cover will even sell for multiples of an A interior by the same artist and/or from the same series. My opinion is that average covers are overvalued relative to key interiors. I'll go with the A interior every time, especially if I can get a bunch of them for the cost of a single B cover. But that's just my personal preference...everyone should spend their money on whatever makes sense for them.

 

[Dr. Manhattan-migration]

A covers price guide could be really interesting but I think the spread between high $k and low would be very broad. Or is that high and very high!

 

What about an Al Williamson category? - He did some amazing Flash Gordon/ Star Wars panel pages along with the really nice newspaper stuff, and a really cool Blade Runner adaption. Was thinking 3 - 5k?

Edited January 22, 2014 by Dr. Manhattan

[MyNameIsLegion]

Great Thread y'all- I would make one comment going back to what Robert Frey was saying about some of the valuations- esp. as it pertains to non-auction or hearsay prices: I'd listen to what Robert Frey has to say about the "true" market price on many things any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. I encourage him to weigh in on the specifics.

 

[heartened]

Whether we do the covers or not, I think this is a great exercise we can do every January. It should be easy going forward, now that we've done it once.

 

[heartened]

Just got the re-release of Miracleman today, and it made me realize we don't have Leach Miracleman art on this list. Would place it at 10-20K for the A level pages. Felix and Joseph M. can back me up on this one, but if they think that's too high then I guess we put it in the 5-10K. Although, good luck getting anyone to part with their A level Leach MM pages at anywhere less than 10K... if you can find one, that is.

 

I don't know the market for Leach MM pages, but, judging from your description, it sounds like it's small, illiquid and, one might say, "trades by appointment". And, that being the case, I'm not sure how realistic these values are...I mean, let's face it, when people think about $10-$20K pages, nobody outside of like 5 people would probably even think to consider Leach MM.

 

There were several sales of Jose Gonzalez Vampirella splashes a while back in the $5K range (back when there were none to be had and when $5K was real money). Probably about as many data points for those as 5-figure Leach MM pages, but I wouldn't have called that a representative market level either.

 

Hey Gene,

 

Rarity is a factor, and I agree that it complicates things. But, this is a slippery slope. There are lots of artists who had a small body of work and command high prices because of it. A comparison here is Keith Sandman pages, or Steranko X-Men pages. Each had about the same as Leach Miracleman. I look through the list and I too agree that if I had 10-20K there's a ton of stuff that wouldn't interest me on the list. The idea is not that people will pick and choose from amongst the list, but rather IF they wanted something on the list, this gives them a price point. I paid 12K for my page, which is a A+ page, about 6 years ago. Felix's pages are more B+ pages (sorry Felix, no offense meant!! I'd gladly take them off your hands!) and he paid about 7-8K apiece, roughly 4 years ago now. And those were public auctions. There are more pages out there of course, and I suspect they will start to surface now. 10K+ seems very reasonable to me. Again, this doesn't have to be what anyone will pay, but rather what someone would have to pay IF they were interested in an A level page by said artist/run.

 

Felix, Joseph, any comments?

 

No offense taken, Hari! I've got nothing against B+ pages (so long as the price is right!). There are plenty of B+ pages out there I wouldn't hesitate to add to my collection (such as your KILLING JOKE pages) for the right price!

 

I do agree that an "A" Leach MM page would be a pretty easy sell at $10K these days. I'm less sure as we approach $20K, though. Hope we get to find out at auction!

 

Well that didn't take long. Check out the price on the Leach MM page, already at 13K after 1 day of bidding. The market is starved for this stuff.

 

[J.Sid]

That's a pretty nice page

[Nexus]

Just got the re-release of Miracleman today, and it made me realize we don't have Leach Miracleman art on this list. Would place it at 10-20K for the A level pages. Felix and Joseph M. can back me up on this one, but if they think that's too high then I guess we put it in the 5-10K. Although, good luck getting anyone to part with their A level Leach MM pages at anywhere less than 10K... if you can find one, that is.

 

I don't know the market for Leach MM pages, but, judging from your description, it sounds like it's small, illiquid and, one might say, "trades by appointment". And, that being the case, I'm not sure how realistic these values are...I mean, let's face it, when people think about $10-$20K pages, nobody outside of like 5 people would probably even think to consider Leach MM.

 

There were several sales of Jose Gonzalez Vampirella splashes a while back in the $5K range (back when there were none to be had and when $5K was real money). Probably about as many data points for those as 5-figure Leach MM pages, but I wouldn't have called that a representative market level either.

 

Hey Gene,

 

Rarity is a factor, and I agree that it complicates things. But, this is a slippery slope. There are lots of artists who had a small body of work and command high prices because of it. A comparison here is Keith Sandman pages, or Steranko X-Men pages. Each had about the same as Leach Miracleman. I look through the list and I too agree that if I had 10-20K there's a ton of stuff that wouldn't interest me on the list. The idea is not that people will pick and choose from amongst the list, but rather IF they wanted something on the list, this gives them a price point. I paid 12K for my page, which is a A+ page, about 6 years ago. Felix's pages are more B+ pages (sorry Felix, no offense meant!! I'd gladly take them off your hands!) and he paid about 7-8K apiece, roughly 4 years ago now. And those were public auctions. There are more pages out there of course, and I suspect they will start to surface now. 10K+ seems very reasonable to me. Again, this doesn't have to be what anyone will pay, but rather what someone would have to pay IF they were interested in an A level page by said artist/run.

 

Felix, Joseph, any comments?

 

No offense taken, Hari! I've got nothing against B+ pages (so long as the price is right!). There are plenty of B+ pages out there I wouldn't hesitate to add to my collection (such as your KILLING JOKE pages) for the right price!

 

I do agree that an "A" Leach MM page would be a pretty easy sell at $10K these days. I'm less sure as we approach $20K, though. Hope we get to find out at auction!

 

Well that didn't take long. Check out the price on the Leach MM page, already at 13K after 1 day of bidding. The market is starved for this stuff.

 

 

Someone's going to end up with a very expensive MIRACLEMAN page!

 

For the record, I haven't placed a single bid. I'm not a thrill-bidder, and I also don't own enough of anything to worry about propping up its market. Good luck to the bidders on this page and most of all, congrats to the consignor!

[heartened]

Just got the re-release of Miracleman today, and it made me realize we don't have Leach Miracleman art on this list. Would place it at 10-20K for the A level pages. Felix and Joseph M. can back me up on this one, but if they think that's too high then I guess we put it in the 5-10K. Although, good luck getting anyone to part with their A level Leach MM pages at anywhere less than 10K... if you can find one, that is.

 

I don't know the market for Leach MM pages, but, judging from your description, it sounds like it's small, illiquid and, one might say, "trades by appointment". And, that being the case, I'm not sure how realistic these values are...I mean, let's face it, when people think about $10-$20K pages, nobody outside of like 5 people would probably even think to consider Leach MM.

 

There were several sales of Jose Gonzalez Vampirella splashes a while back in the $5K range (back when there were none to be had and when $5K was real money). Probably about as many data points for those as 5-figure Leach MM pages, but I wouldn't have called that a representative market level either.

 

Hey Gene,

 

Rarity is a factor, and I agree that it complicates things. But, this is a slippery slope. There are lots of artists who had a small body of work and command high prices because of it. A comparison here is Keith Sandman pages, or Steranko X-Men pages. Each had about the same as Leach Miracleman. I look through the list and I too agree that if I had 10-20K there's a ton of stuff that wouldn't interest me on the list. The idea is not that people will pick and choose from amongst the list, but rather IF they wanted something on the list, this gives them a price point. I paid 12K for my page, which is a A+ page, about 6 years ago. Felix's pages are more B+ pages (sorry Felix, no offense meant!! I'd gladly take them off your hands!) and he paid about 7-8K apiece, roughly 4 years ago now. And those were public auctions. There are more pages out there of course, and I suspect they will start to surface now. 10K+ seems very reasonable to me. Again, this doesn't have to be what anyone will pay, but rather what someone would have to pay IF they were interested in an A level page by said artist/run.

 

Felix, Joseph, any comments?

 

No offense taken, Hari! I've got nothing against B+ pages (so long as the price is right!). There are plenty of B+ pages out there I wouldn't hesitate to add to my collection (such as your KILLING JOKE pages) for the right price!

 

I do agree that an "A" Leach MM page would be a pretty easy sell at $10K these days. I'm less sure as we approach $20K, though. Hope we get to find out at auction!

 

Well that didn't take long. Check out the price on the Leach MM page, already at 13K after 1 day of bidding. The market is starved for this stuff.

 

 

Someone's going to end up with a very expensive MIRACLEMAN page!

 

For the record, I haven't placed a single bid. I'm not a thrill-bidder, and I also don't own enough of anything to worry about propping up its market. Good luck to the bidders on this page and most of all, congrats to the consignor!

 

I don't know anyone with a lot of Leach MM art. You have two pages, I have a page and a cover, not sure who else owns anything, but I doubt anyone has more than 2-3 examples. I just think MM is as good or better than anything else Moore did during the 80s, and it's about time that the series moved up to the same level as V and Watchmen, and personally I think issue 15 will ultimately command the respect (and prices) of KJ pages. Eventually, KJ, MM 15, ST 21, and Watchmen 4 (in my humble opinion) will go down as the 4 best single issues he ever did, and prices will be commensurate with that title. You heard it from me first, guys!

 

Edited January 29, 2014 by heartened

[lb jefferies]

I just think MM is as good or better than anything else Moore did during the 80s, and it's about time that the series moved up to the same level as V and Watchmen, and personally I think issue 15 will ultimately command the respect (and prices) of KJ pages. Eventually, KJ, MM 15, ST 21, and Watchmen 4 (in my humble opinion) will go down as the 4 best single issues he ever did, and prices will be commensurate with that title. You heard it from me first, guys!

I agree, Hari. Although I don't own any Miracleman art I've long thought the work from this series was superior to all the other books you mentioned.