A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes? 5 5

[Pete Marino]

BTW, not sure if I missed it but Eastman / Laird TMNT pages would be in the 5-10k range, no?

Edited January 16, 2014 by Pete Marino

[buttock]

I thought it might be interesting to quickly map out which artists/runs garner what prices these days.

 

My list below if based on what I thought an A-level panel page by that particular artist on that particular run would sell for based on public sales and whatever private sales I am aware of.

 

Gene - you're going pretty deep! Mike (original poster) specifically stated he's using data points. You bring up some excellent points - drop in value for recirculated pieces, the very fluid nature of the market, etc. Certainly you illustrate nicely the need to constantly keep this list updated, and to "take it with a grain of salt."

 

With that being said, I still don't get the high end here. Hari, I see where you argue artificial supply constraints of Romita Sr pages affects the price. I certainly can't argue that. Still, the fact is if you want a Romita Sr 2x page you're going to pay 40k+. Mike had it right the first time.

 

And I'll reiterate a question Burkey brought up a few threads back - how many Kirby FF panel pages are going for 40k+? CAF market data search reveals none. The August Doom-Thing page on Comiclink went below 30K; not sure about the December one. Yes, Colletta inks, but is 40K plus really the standard?

 

The one in the last HA auction went well over $50K. Although I'd rate that one A+.

[Verbow]

Yep, and it looks like a number of the HA auctions aren't showing up in the CAF search. Interesting.

[glendgold]

About those Kirby FF pages

 

Yeah, as I guy who thinks he follows Kirby FF pages relatively well (I'm not in the loop as much as I think I am, clearly), I don't know about those pages going 40K plus with any regularity. You can almost, almost make an argument that there's huge deviation in the twice up market by inker. Sinnott inks> Ayers > Stone> Giacoia> Colletta> Bell, with Sinnott commanding 30-50K and Bell 8-10K for an A page -- but then if great pages from #26 showed up, they'd obviously go much higher. So inker plus content.

 

HA's website shows that one page from FF 57 went for 53K and one from 58 went for 50K. A page from 55 went for 44K. Everything else is below that line. It's hard to say whether those represent the market or not, as they're from one particular set of issues (55, 57-60) that represent a high water mark and some people might consider them A+. Particularly if any of those people are, oh, trying to put any of those particular books back together again. If a few pages from FF 53, 56 and 61, 62 and 63 went around 40K, I'd make a strong argument for "Kirby/Sinnott twice up pages go for 40K," but that's not what we're seeing. 20-30K? That's more in my experience.

[delekkerste]

About those Kirby FF pages

 

Yeah, as I guy who thinks he follows Kirby FF pages relatively well (I'm not in the loop as much as I think I am, clearly), I don't know about those pages going 40K plus with any regularity. You can almost, almost make an argument that there's huge deviation in the twice up market by inker. Sinnott inks> Ayers > Stone> Giacoia> Colletta> Bell, with Sinnott commanding 30-50K and Bell 8-10K for an A page -- but then if great pages from #26 showed up, they'd obviously go much higher. So inker plus content.

 

HA's website shows that one page from FF 57 went for 53K and one from 58 went for 50K. A page from 55 went for 44K. Everything else is below that line. It's hard to say whether those represent the market or not, as they're from one particular set of issues (55, 57-60) that represent a high water mark and some people might consider them A+. Particularly if any of those people are, oh, trying to put any of those particular books back together again. If a few pages from FF 53, 56 and 61, 62 and 63 went around 40K, I'd make a strong argument for "Kirby/Sinnott twice up pages go for 40K," but that's not what we're seeing. 20-30K? That's more in my experience.

 

That makes a lot of sense, Glen. And I still wish you had sold me that great FF 53 Thing page!!

[heartened]

I thought it might be interesting to quickly map out which artists/runs garner what prices these days.

 

My list below if based on what I thought an A-level panel page by that particular artist on that particular run would sell for based on public sales and whatever private sales I am aware of.

 

Gene - you're going pretty deep! Mike (original poster) specifically stated he's using data points. You bring up some excellent points - drop in value for recirculated pieces, the very fluid nature of the market, etc. Certainly you illustrate nicely the need to constantly keep this list updated, and to "take it with a grain of salt."

 

With that being said, I still don't get the high end here. Hari, I see where you argue artificial supply constraints of Romita Sr pages affects the price. I certainly can't argue that. Still, the fact is if you want a Romita Sr 2x page you're going to pay 40k+. Mike had it right the first time.

 

And I'll reiterate a question Burkey brought up a few threads back - how many Kirby FF panel pages are going for 40k+? CAF market data search reveals none. The August Doom-Thing page on Comiclink went below 30K; not sure about the December one. Yes, Colletta inks, but is 40K plus really the standard?

 

Hi,

 

Well, if that's what it takes to get a twice up Romita Sr ASM page right now, then you're both correct and we should put it back up at the 40K plus level. As long as we keep updating the list and moving things up and down depending on more recent data, more supply, more demand, or whatever. Same goes for all of the artists, but more for the ones where there is limited supply, or spike in demand, etc. etc.

 

Best,

[heartened]

But I'll say right now that if anyone has ANY pure Leach pages that they find (Leach pencils and inks), I'll put a standing offer of 10k for each and any one from now through 2016. I won't go back on my word Any takers?

 

One crazy person does not a real market make.

 

It does through 2016.

 

 

[Nexus]

I don't know the market for Leach MM pages, but, judging from your description, it sounds like it's small, illiquid and, one might say, "trades by appointment". And, that being the case, I'm not sure how realistic these values are...I mean, let's face it, when people think about $10-$20K pages, nobody outside of like 5 people would probably even think to consider Leach MM.

 

That could describe a whole lot on this list!

 

There were several sales of Jose Gonzalez Vampirella splashes a while back in the $5K range (back when there were none to be had and when $5K was real money). Probably about as many data points for those as 5-figure Leach MM pages, but I wouldn't have called that a representative market level either.

 

Sure, that sounds reasonable. My hunch, though (for what it's worth), is that a $10K Leach MM page will have more potential buyers these days than a $5K Gonzalez Vampirella splash.

[Nexus]

Just got the re-release of Miracleman today, and it made me realize we don't have Leach Miracleman art on this list. Would place it at 10-20K for the A level pages. Felix and Joseph M. can back me up on this one, but if they think that's too high then I guess we put it in the 5-10K. Although, good luck getting anyone to part with their A level Leach MM pages at anywhere less than 10K... if you can find one, that is.

 

I don't know the market for Leach MM pages, but, judging from your description, it sounds like it's small, illiquid and, one might say, "trades by appointment". And, that being the case, I'm not sure how realistic these values are...I mean, let's face it, when people think about $10-$20K pages, nobody outside of like 5 people would probably even think to consider Leach MM.

 

There were several sales of Jose Gonzalez Vampirella splashes a while back in the $5K range (back when there were none to be had and when $5K was real money). Probably about as many data points for those as 5-figure Leach MM pages, but I wouldn't have called that a representative market level either.

 

Hey Gene,

 

Rarity is a factor, and I agree that it complicates things. But, this is a slippery slope. There are lots of artists who had a small body of work and command high prices because of it. A comparison here is Keith Sandman pages, or Steranko X-Men pages. Each had about the same as Leach Miracleman. I look through the list and I too agree that if I had 10-20K there's a ton of stuff that wouldn't interest me on the list. The idea is not that people will pick and choose from amongst the list, but rather IF they wanted something on the list, this gives them a price point. I paid 12K for my page, which is a A+ page, about 6 years ago. Felix's pages are more B+ pages (sorry Felix, no offense meant!! I'd gladly take them off your hands!) and he paid about 7-8K apiece, roughly 4 years ago now. And those were public auctions. There are more pages out there of course, and I suspect they will start to surface now. 10K+ seems very reasonable to me. Again, this doesn't have to be what anyone will pay, but rather what someone would have to pay IF they were interested in an A level page by said artist/run.

 

Felix, Joseph, any comments?

 

No offense taken, Hari! I've got nothing against B+ pages (so long as the price is right!). There are plenty of B+ pages out there I wouldn't hesitate to add to my collection (such as your KILLING JOKE pages) for the right price!

 

I do agree that an "A" Leach MM page would be a pretty easy sell at $10K these days. I'm less sure as we approach $20K, though. Hope we get to find out at auction!

[Nexus]

But I'll say right now that if anyone has ANY pure Leach pages that they find (Leach pencils and inks), I'll put a standing offer of 10k for each and any one from now through 2016. I won't go back on my word Any takers?

Boom!

 

My standing offer is $20K for an "A" Leach MM page!

 

(I'll pay you as soon as I sell my two B+ pages to Hari for $10K each.)

[lb jefferies]

But I'll say right now that if anyone has ANY pure Leach pages that they find (Leach pencils and inks), I'll put a standing offer of 10k for each and any one from now through 2016. I won't go back on my word Any takers?

 

One crazy person does not a real market make.

 

It does through 2016.

 

 

What the hell happens in 2016?

[delekkerste]

What the hell happens in 2016?

 

Hari comes to his senses.

[heartened]

But I'll say right now that if anyone has ANY pure Leach pages that they find (Leach pencils and inks), I'll put a standing offer of 10k for each and any one from now through 2016. I won't go back on my word Any takers?

Boom!

 

My standing offer is $20K for an "A" Leach MM page!

 

(I'll pay you as soon as I sell my two B+ pages to Hari for $10K each.)

 

Actually, I'd take that deal! I do like your pages, actually, Felix!

 

[heartened]

Just got the re-release of Miracleman today, and it made me realize we don't have Leach Miracleman art on this list. Would place it at 10-20K for the A level pages. Felix and Joseph M. can back me up on this one, but if they think that's too high then I guess we put it in the 5-10K. Although, good luck getting anyone to part with their A level Leach MM pages at anywhere less than 10K... if you can find one, that is.

 

I don't know the market for Leach MM pages, but, judging from your description, it sounds like it's small, illiquid and, one might say, "trades by appointment". And, that being the case, I'm not sure how realistic these values are...I mean, let's face it, when people think about $10-$20K pages, nobody outside of like 5 people would probably even think to consider Leach MM.

 

There were several sales of Jose Gonzalez Vampirella splashes a while back in the $5K range (back when there were none to be had and when $5K was real money). Probably about as many data points for those as 5-figure Leach MM pages, but I wouldn't have called that a representative market level either.

 

Hey Gene,

 

Rarity is a factor, and I agree that it complicates things. But, this is a slippery slope. There are lots of artists who had a small body of work and command high prices because of it. A comparison here is Keith Sandman pages, or Steranko X-Men pages. Each had about the same as Leach Miracleman. I look through the list and I too agree that if I had 10-20K there's a ton of stuff that wouldn't interest me on the list. The idea is not that people will pick and choose from amongst the list, but rather IF they wanted something on the list, this gives them a price point. I paid 12K for my page, which is a A+ page, about 6 years ago. Felix's pages are more B+ pages (sorry Felix, no offense meant!! I'd gladly take them off your hands!) and he paid about 7-8K apiece, roughly 4 years ago now. And those were public auctions. There are more pages out there of course, and I suspect they will start to surface now. 10K+ seems very reasonable to me. Again, this doesn't have to be what anyone will pay, but rather what someone would have to pay IF they were interested in an A level page by said artist/run.

 

Felix, Joseph, any comments?

 

No offense taken, Hari! I've got nothing against B+ pages (so long as the price is right!). There are plenty of B+ pages out there I wouldn't hesitate to add to my collection (such as your KILLING JOKE pages) for the right price!

 

I do agree that an "A" Leach MM page would be a pretty easy sell at $10K these days. I'm less sure as we approach $20K, though. Hope we get to find out at auction!

 

Ha! You got me there!

 

Edited January 16, 2014 by heartened

[heartened]

But I'll say right now that if anyone has ANY pure Leach pages that they find (Leach pencils and inks), I'll put a standing offer of 10k for each and any one from now through 2016. I won't go back on my word Any takers?

 

One crazy person does not a real market make.

 

It does through 2016.

 

 

What the hell happens in 2016?

 

The new Gaiman run finishes. Figured it's as good a stop time as any.

[J.Sid]

No scan yet but Heritage just added a Garry Leach MM page....

[Bird]

But I'll say right now that if anyone has ANY pure Leach pages that they find (Leach pencils and inks), I'll put a standing offer of 10k for each and any one from now through 2016. I won't go back on my word Any takers?

 

One crazy person does not a real market make.

 

It does through 2016.

 

 

What the hell happens in 2016?

 

The new Gaiman run finishes. Figured it's as good a stop time as any.

 

I myself wonder if the book will sustain sales to get to that point. I think Marvel is being very ambitious here and hope it works out.

[Nexus]

No scan yet but Heritage just added a Garry Leach MM page....

 

I got shown this page a couple of years ago. It's a definite A. I made a stupid offer on it, the owner ultimately decided he didn't want to sell. Now that the series has a new life, he'll probably do better. No matter what, we're about to see what an A Leach MM page will go for!

 

(Hoping it's $20K or under so I can get it thanks to Hari!)

[heartened]

No scan yet but Heritage just added a Garry Leach MM page....

 

I got shown this page a couple of years ago. It's a definite A. I made a stupid offer on it, the owner ultimately decided he didn't want to sell. Now that the series has a new life, he'll probably do better. No matter what, we're about to see what an A Leach MM page will go for!

 

(Hoping it's $20K or under so I can get it thanks to Hari!)

 

Indeed. I heard about this as well a while back, but the seller was really just fishing for interest but never took it any further. Looks like he decided to go the Heritage route. It's a very nice page, agree certainly an A page. It is part of his initial dream sequence - showing his past memories, so not truly his first appearance, but it's a great page nonetheless. And, if you get it Felix I'll take your B+ pages, thank you

 

[Nexus]

Thanks Hari!