ASM 300 Appreciation/ Club Thread 12 12

[Jaydogrules]

This is all well and good but none of it has (or has ever) translated in to any quantifiable, consistent, or verifiable "premium" realised in prices either way.

While the data is certainly sound, it is, at least in this case, irrelevant.

 

-J.

Irrelevant? It's 131 data points in a public segment of the market... eBay.

That's statistically valid to 95% confidence, if that is supposedly what you're asking.

(No one with "dog" and "rules" in their name has ever been taken serious as a statistician.

Primarily because so few with "dog" and "rules" in their name have finished high school.)

 

Has ANY part of the CGC market ever translated to any quantifiable, consistent, or verifiable anything?

Carved in stone, take it to the bank, verify it, consistently. What would do that? Multiple data points? Got 'em.

It's a market. Ups and downs. Things are sold too low, things are overpaid. Past results are no guarantee of future performance. Blah, blah, etc.

 

Why are you requesting some level of proof here that isn't required anywhere else?

Multiple guys have stated that there is A premium for newsstand ASM #300.

The data shows that there are fewer in high grade... a fact.

You said a premium for newsstand is a myth.

Fewer in high grade equals a premium everywhere else. But not ASM #300, huh?

 

"Irrelevant" is the correct word. Unfortunately, it applies more your opinion.

 

You are taking this waaaaaay too seriously my man.

 

If your point (?) is that a newsstand copy "sometimes" gets a marginal "premium" I don't disagree with that.

 

My point is that it also "sometimes" (and in fact usually) does not. Not enough people care one way or another to establish any CONSISTENT "premium", in either amount and most assuredly with not any regularity

You make far too many assumptions and leaps of logic in an attempt to rationalize a position that is easily debunked- that simply because there is -1 of something compared to something else that that something will automatically command a "premium". That is simply not the case, and again , this is easily borne out by a casual perusal of closed eBay listings (and not just the few that you cherry picked earlier).

 

Not my "opinion". Fact.

 

Any-who, hope you enjoy your newsies.

 

-J.

 

[Jaydogrules]

P.S. While I'm at it... there's no way someone who hasn't finished high school would own ALL those books in their signature, scanned with different scanners, in various lighting conditions, and valued so wildly differently. If it was an auction, it would be scam city. Since it's a collection, we're supposed to be impressed by it, and not point out the obvious. He just-so-happens major keys, minor keys, and brand-new-worth-something-because-they're-rare-and-probably-purchased-for-$50-or-less comics. He has a world class collection worth in the high six-figures, but he's genuinely worried someone is getting $10 extra for a newsstand ASM #300 somewhere. Shhhh... I shouldn't be typing what we're all thinking.

 

Poser dog rules.

 

I don't think anyone else is thinking that. But thank you for the back handed compliment I think.

 

Classy guy.

 

-J.

[valiantman]

P.S. While I'm at it... there's no way someone who hasn't finished high school would own ALL those books in their signature, scanned with different scanners, in various lighting conditions, and valued so wildly differently. If it was an auction, it would be scam city. Since it's a collection, we're supposed to be impressed by it, and not point out the obvious. He just-so-happens major keys, minor keys, and brand-new-worth-something-because-they're-rare-and-probably-purchased-for-$50-or-less comics. He has a world class collection worth in the high six-figures, but he's genuinely worried someone is getting $10 extra for a newsstand ASM #300 somewhere. Shhhh... I shouldn't be typing what we're all thinking.

 

Poser dog rules.

 

I don't think anyone else is thinking that.

 

Classy guy.

 

-J.

I'm pretty sure you don't want to see a show of hands.

[Jaydogrules]

P.S. While I'm at it... there's no way someone who hasn't finished high school would own ALL those books in their signature, scanned with different scanners, in various lighting conditions, and valued so wildly differently. If it was an auction, it would be scam city. Since it's a collection, we're supposed to be impressed by it, and not point out the obvious. He just-so-happens major keys, minor keys, and brand-new-worth-something-because-they're-rare-and-probably-purchased-for-$50-or-less comics. He has a world class collection worth in the high six-figures, but he's genuinely worried someone is getting $10 extra for a newsstand ASM #300 somewhere. Shhhh... I shouldn't be typing what we're all thinking.

 

Poser dog rules.

 

I don't think anyone else is thinking that.

 

Classy guy.

 

-J.

I'm pretty sure you don't want to see a show of hands.

 

Considering that I've bought from two of the boardies who have contributed to this conversation , I can assure you I'm not losing any sleep over it either way.

 

-J.

[valiantman]

P.S. While I'm at it... there's no way someone who hasn't finished high school would own ALL those books in their signature, scanned with different scanners, in various lighting conditions, and valued so wildly differently. If it was an auction, it would be scam city. Since it's a collection, we're supposed to be impressed by it, and not point out the obvious. He just-so-happens major keys, minor keys, and brand-new-worth-something-because-they're-rare-and-probably-purchased-for-$50-or-less comics. He has a world class collection worth in the high six-figures, but he's genuinely worried someone is getting $10 extra for a newsstand ASM #300 somewhere. Shhhh... I shouldn't be typing what we're all thinking.

 

Poser dog rules.

 

I don't think anyone else is thinking that.

 

Classy guy.

 

-J.

I'm pretty sure you don't want to see a show of hands.

 

Considering that I've bought from two of the boardies who have contributed to this conversation , I can assure you I'm not losing any sleep over it either way.

 

-J.

Your banner is beautiful and you clearly enjoy showing off those books, but the serial numbers are pretty small. Care to point me to your registry?

[RockMyAmadeus]

P.S. While I'm at it... there's no way someone who hasn't finished high school would own ALL those books in their signature, scanned with different scanners, in various lighting conditions, and valued so wildly differently. If it was an auction, it would be scam city. Since it's a collection, we're supposed to be impressed by it, and not point out the obvious. He just-so-happens major keys, minor keys, and brand-new-worth-something-because-they're-rare-and-probably-purchased-for-$50-or-less comics. He has a world class collection worth in the high six-figures, but he's genuinely worried someone is getting $10 extra for a newsstand ASM #300 somewhere. Shhhh... I shouldn't be typing what we're all thinking.

 

Poser dog rules.

 

I don't think anyone else is thinking that. But thank you for the back handed compliment I think.

 

Classy guy.

 

-J.

 

That's not true at all. Did you forget that I said the exact same thing, over a year ago, in either the Sandman #8 variant thread, or the ASM #301 9.8 discussion?

 

For which, by the way, some people became rather caustic towards me for "daring" to question your sigline...?

 

 

And, were you going to answer any of my previous questions? No problem if not, but I think they merit a response.

[chrisco37]

Arguing with Jaydog is an exercise in futility. You'll never change his mind no matter what. You might as well bang your head against a wall. It's probably more productive and less painful.

 

That said, the pot-shot wasn't necessary and is definitely beneath you.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Arguing with Jaydog is an exercise in futility. You'll never change his mind no matter what. You might as well bang your head against a wall. It's probably more productive and less painful.

 

True, but it's important that the misinformation that Jaydog posts is countered with factual, accurate, correct information, or people will be making bad decisions based on that misinformation.

 

In that sense, it's not about arguing WITH Jay, or trying to convince him, but rather, trying to counter that misinformation, for the sake of others.

 

That said, the pot-shot wasn't necessary and is definitely beneath you.

 

Agreed.

[Jaydogrules]

For the record , no one has actually demonstrated any quantifiable , consistent or verifiable "premium" for a "newsstand" copy. There are just as many closed listings on eBay where comparable direct copies went for the same price or more as a newsie. It's right there for any objective person to view for themselves. While anecdotal evidence can be evidence it loses its persuasiveness when there is just as much anecdotal evidence in existence that can cause someone to reach an exactly opposite conclusion. They essentially cancel each other out to a net zero. Sorry, but no one should expect to change anyone's mind with unsupported blanket statements.

 

And that is not "misinformation". It's just facts. As inconvenient to the promulgated myth as they may be.

 

Peace out.

 

-J.

 

PS: Any one wondering about any of the books in my sig line, feel free to PM me and I'll let you know which boardie/auction house it was acquired from.

[RockMyAmadeus]

For the record , no one has actually demonstrated any quantifiable , consistent or verifiable "premium" for a "newsstand" copy. There are just as many closed listings on eBay where comparable direct copies went for the same price or more as a newsie. It's right there for any objective person to view for themselves. While anecdotal evidence can be evidence it loses its persuasiveness when there is just as much anecdotal evidence in existence that can cause someone to reach an exactly opposite conclusion. They essentially cancel each other out to a net zero. Sorry, but no one should expect to change anyone's mind with unsupported blanket statements.

 

That is, of course, true as a theoretical explanation. No one can argue against that.

 

However, where it falls short is that you don't put in any effort to prove your position, with actual data. You leave it up to everyone else to "find out for themselves."

 

That's not statistical analysis. That's just sharing an opinion. Nothing wrong with sharing an opinion, but if you're going to challenge someone, you need to be willing to do the legwork to provide data that positively affirms your position, rather than just telling everyone to go find it for themselves.

 

And that is not "misinformation". It's just facts. As inconvenient to the promulgated myth as they may be.

 

No, it's not facts; it's theoretical opinion until proven. You don't do that, and seldom, if ever, do the hard work of research and fact-finding, relying, instead, on everyone else to "prove you wrong" (which, nevertheless, has happened on many occasions, and which you refuse to acknowledge has ever happened.)

 

And that's not the misinformation to which I was referring. That would be things like "the extant number of copies of such and such variant is quantifiable" and "there are only 100 or fewer copies of Sandman #8 editorial variant still in existence."

 

 

Peace out.

 

-J.

 

PS: Any one wondering about any of the books in my sig line, feel free to PM me and I'll let you know which boardie/auction house it was acquired from.

 

So, you retract your earlier statement that "you don't think anyone else is thinking that (the books in your sigline are questionable)" and admit you were incorrect?

 

Why not share the information publicly, since you were publicly challenged about it, not once, but twice now? Not that you're obligated to, but if you invite people to PM you to share the information with them, why not share it with everyone?

[Lethal_Collector]

 

How about we get off the merry-go-round and get back on topic before this thread also gets shut down.

 

 

About the only thing I don't like about the ASM 300 cover is that it's been swiped over about a million times now.

 

For me, this comic always holds a certain amount of prestige and aura because I started getting into comics during the Lethal Protector days. I'd only heard about this book from word of mouth when I told someone I am a Venom fan. it wasn't until the early ebay days that I even saw one, . Great book with lots of historical value

 

 

Jerome

Edited January 17, 2016 by Lethal_Collector

[Peshka]

My 2 OO copies are finally back from CGC.

 

 

 

Beautiful Non-jagged edge copies.. both in 9.8

 

Non-jagged edge vs Jagged edge - Wouldn't this be a more important criteria to consider rather than whether or not it's a Direct or Newstand

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

How about we get off the merry-go-round and get back on topic before this thread also gets shut down.

 

 

How about we don't tell other people how they can appreciate ASM #300, and don't run to the mods because someone says something that doesn't agree with us, so the thread isn't shut down? It's perfectly possible to have a discussion, even disagreement, without feeling the need to involve the mods. You DO know that's almost always why threads get locked, right?

 

Surely, we're all adults here, are we not?

 

These posts ARE on topic: ASM 300 Appreciation.

 

Or, does how you appreciate rule, and how others appreciate suck?

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

My 2 OO copies are finally back from CGC.

 

 

 

Beautiful Non-jagged edge copies.. both in 9.8

 

Non-jagged edge vs Jagged edge - Wouldn't this be a more important criteria to consider rather than whether or not it's a Direct or Newstand

 

I've never minded the jagged edge copies, personally. They add character to the book.

[mysterio]

For the record , no one has actually demonstrated any quantifiable , consistent or verifiable "premium" for a "newsstand" copy. There are just as many closed listings on eBay where comparable direct copies went for the same price or more as a newsie. It's right there for any objective person to view for themselves. While anecdotal evidence can be evidence it loses its persuasiveness when there is just as much anecdotal evidence in existence that can cause someone to reach an exactly opposite conclusion. They essentially cancel each other out to a net zero. Sorry, but no one should expect to change anyone's mind with unsupported blanket statements.

 

And that is not "misinformation". It's just facts. As inconvenient to the promulgated myth as they may be.

 

Peace out.

 

-J.

 

PS: Any one wondering about any of the books in my sig line, feel free to PM me and I'll let you know which boardie/auction house it was acquired from.

 

We're all still waiting on the "quantifiable, consistent or verifiable" data on the print run of the "rare" Del'Otto ASM book too, but that doesn't appear to be important enough to warrant your attention. That lack of data is currently inconvenient as well. Seems there are differing interpretations on what constitutes "data" in these cases (not sure what is up with all "the" random quotation marks around words in "this" thread, but it seems that all the cool kids are "doing it").

[chrisco37]

 

How about we get off the merry-go-round and get back on topic before this thread also gets shut down.

 

 

How about we don't tell other people how they can appreciate ASM #300, and don't run to the mods because someone says something that doesn't agree with us, so the thread isn't shut down? It's perfectly possible to have a discussion, even disagreement, without feeling the need to involve the mods. You DO know that's almost always why threads get locked, right?

 

Surely, we're all adults here, are we not?

 

These posts ARE on topic: ASM 300 Appreciation.

 

Or, does how you appreciate rule, and how others appreciate suck?

 

 

 

Debatable.

 

As for the jagged/non-jagged, I agree that the non-jagged should be preferred. CGC has deemed (correctly so) that it's a production issue, so they don't downgrade for it so we haven't seen any price difference(s). I think there should be a slight premium associated, but the market doesn't.

 

People pay PQ premiums (sometimes good premiums). Something, IMO based on my experiences, that many collectors wouldn't be able to notice any discernable difference on were the books raw. Heck, CGC can't even maintain consistency on it. But, for something you can clearly see (the jagged edge), they don't.

 

Collectors are a strange lot.

[mysterio]

 

How about we get off the merry-go-round and get back on topic before this thread also gets shut down.

 

 

How about we don't tell other people how they can appreciate ASM #300, and don't run to the mods because someone says something that doesn't agree with us, so the thread isn't shut down? It's perfectly possible to have a discussion, even disagreement, without feeling the need to involve the mods. You DO know that's almost always why threads get locked, right?

 

Surely, we're all adults here, are we not?

 

These posts ARE on topic: ASM 300 Appreciation.

 

Or, does how you appreciate rule, and how others appreciate suck?

 

 

 

Debatable.

 

As for the jagged/non-jagged, I agree that the non-jagged should be preferred. CGC has deemed (correctly so) that it's a production issue, so they don't downgrade for it so we haven't seen any price difference(s). I think there should be a slight premium associated, but the market doesn't.

 

People pay PQ premiums (sometimes good premiums). Something, IMO based on my experiences, that many collectors wouldn't be able to notice any discernable difference on were the books raw. Heck, CGC can't even maintain consistency on it. But, for something you can clearly see (the jagged edge), they don't.

 

Collectors are a strange lot.

 

Don't open up the PQ discussion with J again! That'll be another 50 pages of him discounting everyone else's "data" while portraying his own "data" as eminently sound and irrefutable.

[jimjum12]

 

How about we get off the merry-go-round and get back on topic before this thread also gets shut down.

 

 

How about we don't tell other people how they can appreciate ASM #300, and don't run to the mods because someone says something that doesn't agree with us, so the thread isn't shut down? It's perfectly possible to have a discussion, even disagreement, without feeling the need to involve the mods. You DO know that's almost always why threads get locked, right?

 

Surely, we're all adults here, are we not?

 

These posts ARE on topic: ASM 300 Appreciation.

 

Or, does how you appreciate rule, and how others appreciate suck?

 

 

 

 

..... back in the early 90's this book was very difficult to find.... I found my first copy at a small shop in a small town while on a delivery run at work. These McFarlane Spideys got me back into collecting after a short hiatus. I definitely appreciate the book. I even have a copy of my own.... but it's raw. Personally, I find newsstand and direct copies to both be readily available, but never followed which would be less common. For me, I prefer direct, as I find the barcode distracts from the visual appeal..... so I would prefer a direct copy GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[mosconi]

My 2 OO copies are finally back from CGC.

 

 

 

Beautiful Non-jagged edge copies.. both in 9.8

 

Non-jagged edge vs Jagged edge - Wouldn't this be a more important criteria to consider rather than whether or not it's a Direct or Newstand

Agree with this. I'd like to know if a premium is normally paid for sharp, straight edged copies vs. the rough cut, jagged variety? And are the sharp edged copies tougher to find?

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

How about we get off the merry-go-round and get back on topic before this thread also gets shut down.

 

 

How about we don't tell other people how they can appreciate ASM #300, and don't run to the mods because someone says something that doesn't agree with us, so the thread isn't shut down? It's perfectly possible to have a discussion, even disagreement, without feeling the need to involve the mods. You DO know that's almost always why threads get locked, right?

 

Surely, we're all adults here, are we not?

 

These posts ARE on topic: ASM 300 Appreciation.

 

Or, does how you appreciate rule, and how others appreciate suck?

 

 

 

Debatable.

 

As for the jagged/non-jagged, I agree that the non-jagged should be preferred. CGC has deemed (correctly so) that it's a production issue, so they don't downgrade for it so we haven't seen any price difference(s). I think there should be a slight premium associated, but the market doesn't.

 

People pay PQ premiums (sometimes good premiums). Something, IMO based on my experiences, that many collectors wouldn't be able to notice any discernable difference on were the books raw. Heck, CGC can't even maintain consistency on it. But, for something you can clearly see (the jagged edge), they don't.

 

Collectors are a strange lot.

 

It's an interesting case, the jagged edge ASM #300. To answer the post above, it seems like the jagged/non-jagged books are about equal, at least in my experience, and I've handled maybe 200-300 since 1990?

 

It's not the only book with this edge that was made in the late 80's (Action Comics Weeklies have the issue, too) but it's far and away the only key to have it.

 

It was so ubiquitous, everyone just assumed that it was normal, and though I noted it in my head at the time, I don't think I ever saw it openly spoken of until the CGC era.

 

As always, everyone should buy what they like, and be fully persuaded in their own mind. I have no preference either way, but that could be because I come from an era which accepted it as a given without question, and didn't consider it a problem worth mentioning.