THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

On 6/27/2017 at 9:52 PM, Spiderturtle said:

https://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction/comic/58569

 

I guess we can throw the mc debate out the window on this 6.5.  Almost at $60k with a day left

You do realize that this is Pedigree and not Comiclink or Heritage you're talking about.

+1

I was also thinking exactly this when I first saw the almost $60K figure along with all of the Marvel chipping on the book. 

It's good to know that Doug personally handles and involves himself with all aspects of his Pedigree auction website, including the actual bidding process itself.   

Edited June 30, 2017 by lou_fine

[Jaydogrules]

2 hours ago, VintageComics said:

He also doesn't mention that each one of those record sale prices were upgradeable copies (some of which he may have even bid on ).

 

 

There was nothing "upgradeable" about that 6.5, though I actually thought it went kind of low or on the low side of what a 6.5 would go for after this last pricing surge. 

And I won't believe the 5.0 or 4.5 were upgradeable either (and certainly not that 5.0 which would have to go up three full grades just for the buyer to break even) until or unless they turn up again or disappear from the census after having actually been upgraded. 

-J.

[october]

I held the AF 15 5.0 that sold on CC for $57k raw in my hands. It MAYBE would hit 5.5 on resub. Too many back cover defects. 

I strongly doubt that upgradability (not a word) was what drove the price. The insane eye-appeal relative to the technical grade is what drove the price. 

[VintageComics]

58 minutes ago, october said:

I held the AF 15 5.0 that sold on CC for $57k raw in my hands

I know that you're friends with Gary who brought the book to market. I figured you would have seen it.

 

56 minutes ago, october said:

The insane eye-appeal relative to the technical grade is what drove the price. 

I would believe that if it was just the 5.0 that set a record, like when @peewee22 bought his white covered FF #1 a few years ago at double market price.

But the 9.0 was definitely upgradeable as I was going to buy it for that reason.

And the 4.5 looked upgradeable to me as well.

And so IMO it was a combination of several upgradeable copies and a frenzy that I believe set those record prices.

 

[VintageComics]

Just now, Jaydogrules said:

I literally think you're the only person still saying those mid grade CC auction books from three months ago were all massively "upgradeable" and is the main, if not sole reason for why prices for AF 15's across most grades have spiked (even though the spike, as I have previously demonstrated) actually started more than a year ago. 

But I'm the one who's "wrong".

Whatever floats your boat, Chief.  

I never said 'massively' upgradeable. I simply said they looked upgradeable.

Since yo won't find the word massively (or any synonym) in the context of this discussion used by me I'll wait for your apology.

This is you again moving goal posts, now by misquoting people to try to make your subtly shifted point more effective and by doing so you undermine your own position because it proves that you openly lie to argue a point.

Also, most people who know the market well have chimed in on the topic (reasonable, long time board members who are not looking to pump their stocks) and they agree with me and disagree with you that the new surge happened after the CC auctions a few months ago.

I'll remind you that a year ago an AF #15 CGC 9.4 sold for $450,000 on Heritage. That $450,000 price was what Metro was offering to buy copies for - so don't paint it like the price was a surprise.

Keep talking. Everyone is watching and listening closely.

[namisgr]

As always, perhaps it's most prudent to wait until 3-6 months after the latest movie release to discern whether the recent pricing is sustainable or not.

[piper]

12 minutes ago, namisgr said:

As always, perhaps it's most prudent to wait until 3-6 months after the latest movie release to discern whether the recent pricing is sustainable or not.

Agreed about waiting 3-6 months to see if these new prices are stable. At this point though I don't think that the upcoming movie  is having any impact on prices.

[Jaydogrules]

21 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I never said 'massively' upgradeable. I simply said they looked upgradeable.

Since yo won't find the word massively (or any synonym) in the context of this discussion used by me I'll wait for your apology.

This is you again moving goal posts, now by misquoting people to try to make your subtly shifted point more effective and by doing so you undermine your own position because it proves that you openly lie to argue a point.

Also, most people who know the market well have chimed in on the topic (reasonable, long time board members who are not looking to pump their stocks) and they agree with me and disagree with you that the new surge happened after the CC auctions a few months ago.

I'll remind you that a year ago an AF #15 CGC 9.4 sold for $450,000 on Heritage. That $450,000 price was what Metro was offering to buy copies for - so don't paint it like the price was a surprise.

Keep talking. Everyone is watching and listening closely.

I haven't heard anyone other than you say that those three sales on CC were anything other than a continuation in escaltion and already rising prices (which, incidentally, are now hitting the lower grades, something I also mentioned would happen multiple pages back- this has literally been the trickle down that most reasonable boardies who aren't overly mesmerized by their own preconceptions and opinions have said would likely happen).  

In fact, October also just disagreed with you.  

And characterizing the absurdity of some of your opinions is not "moving the goal posts".  It's characterizing the absurdity of your opinions.  

And people are listening?  That's great.  So tell us one more time how you think someone paid $57k for a 5.0 that would have to "upgrade" to AT LEAST a 6.5 for the buyer to break even and keep it, and a 7.0 if he planned on re-selling it to not LOSE money, after potential auction house fees.  We're listening.  

Of course the greater likelihood is  what October (and many others) have already said, and that he paid strong for eye appeal, and that's it.  

-J.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[namisgr]

7 minutes ago, piper said:

Agreed about waiting 3-6 months to see if these new prices are stable. At this point though I don't think that the upcoming movie  is having any impact on prices.

Maybe.  A reboot of the movie franchise under Disney guidance isn't something to dismiss out of hand.

Meantime, those getting heated in the discussion should just chillax until enough time passes to determine whether the price rise is sustainable. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by namisgr

[october]

7 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

 

And people are listening?  That's great.  So tell us one more time how you think someone paid $57k for a 5.0 that would have to "upgrade" to AT LEAST a 6.5 for the buyer to break even and keep it, and a 7.0 if he planned on re-selling it to not LOSE money, after potential auction house fees.  We're listening.  

 

I won't speculate as to the buyer's motives, so I guess it's possible that the person thought it would upgrade in a huge way just based on the eye appeal, but I can't imagine a lot of people paying 2x GPA and almost $60k for a book without doing their homework as to the potential for an upgrade. If they had done their homework (and I assume they did) they would know that 7.0 on that issue was a pipedream. Maybe 6.0 on a loose day. 

I was willing to pay top end GPA in cash for it raw and the seller (wisely) turned me down. I was willing to do that because it was the nicest copy I had ever seen in a 7.0 or under, slabbed or unslabbed. The front cover is incredible. I am guessing the buyer felt the same. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by october

[VintageComics]

7 minutes ago, namisgr said:

Meantime, those getting heated in the discussion should just chillax until enough time passes to determine whether the price rise is sustainable. 

Bob, I'm not heated. I just hate lies and carnival barkers.

[namisgr]

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

Bob, I'm not heated. I just hate lies and carnival barkers.

There's a longstanding tradition for better or for worse of certain books being hyped on the Boards.  I'm sure you know that already.  This thread has lately become another shining example.

Time will tell far more than rhetoric.

[ProcessedMeatMan]

11 hours ago, ProcessedMeatMan said:

Anybody have any data on what a 1.0 is going for in this current market? GPA seems relatively outdated compared to all other sales in other grade ranges. 

I've seen a bid on C-Link for a 1.0 at $8500... is that a good place to start or is that too wacky?

[Jaydogrules]

3 minutes ago, namisgr said:

There's a longstanding tradition for better or for worse of certain books being hyped on the Boards.  I'm sure you know that already.  This thread has lately become another shining example.

Time will tell far more than rhetoric.

Tme will tell everything, naturally, and "rhetoric" can exist on both sides of the coin.  

It's been more than a year already now.  Going on 4 months I believe since even that uber-pivotal CC auction and prices appear to still be escalating, now in the lowest of grades and some MC copies.  

I asked a few posts back, and I'll ask again now- how much time exactly needs to pass before these are simply considered "the prices"?

-J.

[namisgr]

From 3-6 months after the new movie release that re-boots the movie franchise.  You didn't get a response to your question 'a few posts back' because it had already been addressed in the thread before you posed it.

[Jaydogrules]

7 minutes ago, namisgr said:

From 3-6 months after the new movie release that re-boots the movie franchise.  You didn't get a response to your question 'a few posts back' because it had already been addressed in the thread before you posed it.

Okay so then just to clarify, you believe at least part of this price surge has something to do with the movie? 

If that's true, then what difference is six months going to make, since, after this movie we have a Venom movie to look forward to next year,  Silver and Black, and of course at least two sequels to Homecoming in 2019 and 2021, a possible Kraven and Mysterio project, Spidey appearances in Avengers movies, an entire Venom-verse of sequels on top of that, etc?  

-J.

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[namisgr]

You draw conclusions that are unwarranted from what I've written.  To repeat, I wrote that the discussion would benefit from waiting from 3-6 months after the release of the new movie to attempt to draw conclusions on the sustainability of the recent price rise.  You've made up a viewpoint for me on the sustainability out of thin air.

 

And make no mistake about it, it's more recent than a year.  A quick perusal of GPA data shows that 5.0, 6.0, and 6.5 copies sold for far less in summer of 2016 than they've gone for much more recently.

 

The suggestion stands: instead of trying to be jaydogmatic, it may be better for the health of the discussion in this thread to table the consideration of the sustainability of the recent marked price increases until enough time has passed that it can be better assessed.  This is particularly true at a time of an impending new movie release, as recent history has made clear.  To do otherwise can come across as hyping the book, be that one's intention or not.

Edited June 30, 2017 by namisgr

[VintageComics]

10 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

I haven't heard anyone other than you say that those three sales on CC were anything other than a continuation in escaltion and already rising prices

Actually, GAtor said it. I can't remember who else did.

 

10 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

(which, incidentally, are now hitting the lower grades, something I also mentioned would happen multiple pages back- this has literally been the trickle down that most reasonable boardies who aren't overly mesmerized by their own preconceptions and opinions have said would likely happen).

Are you trying to say that because you stated an already known market pattern has happened that this somehow adds weight to your points?

Everybody knows when higher grade copies sell strong that lower grade copies trickle upwards. Yeah, you said it. 

I was one of the first that said that the trickle down would happen and prices would adjust if the market accepted those CC record prices as the new norm.

But your personal insult about me being "overly mesmerized by their own preconceptions and opinions" is not accurate. 

I know my stuff well and I'm putting my highly educated and respected opinion out there and I've been making the same salient points from the beginning.

Where I get my back up is where you pump the market with half truths, grey statements and shifting arguments (like misquoting people). It's makes you look like the value of your AF #15 is worth more than your integrity.

24 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

In fact, October also just disagreed with you.  

That's another Jaydogrules fabrication.

just so you know, October and I go back over a decade both on here and in person. He didn't disagree with me, actually.

He said MAYBE the book could go to a 5.5 (which means he agrees that it could upgrade) AND I added above that it is possible that on this particular copy that a bidder thought it was upgradeable but also that someone was just shelling out huge dough because it looked spectacular (see my @peewee22 comment above).

33 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

And characterizing the absurdity of some of your opinions is not "moving the goal posts".  It's characterizing the absurdity of your opinions.  

It's only absurd to you because it conflicts with your grand scheme of pumping the markets.

My opinion is that the books selling for record numbers either looked spectacular for the grade and / or had a shot at upgrade.  I don't know what is absurd about that. The markets have been that way since day one. People have always paid stronger prices for exceptional copies. The only thing that has changed is how much more they are willing to pay and what makes them exceptional.

 

36 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

So tell us one more time how you think someone paid $57k for a 5.0 that would have to "upgrade" to AT LEAST a 6.5 for the buyer to break even and keep it, and a 7.0 if he planned on re-selling it to not LOSE money, after potential auction house fees.  We're listening.  

Another Jaydogrules fabrication.

I have from the beginning admitted that the 5.0 copy may not be upgradeable.  My larger point is not based on that one copy, although October himself (also a solid graded) said he could "MAYBE see 5.5"

But the upgrade game is not a science. You don't always know what grade you are going to get. You also don't know what the market is going to be when it comes time to sell.

It's anonymous people bidding against other anonsymous people. so if there was someone who wanted that book for their personal collection and they were bidding against someone who thought the book had potential that would explain the price point.

That's more realistic to me than just two people wanting to pay double market value for a CGC 5.0 copy, which is entirely possibly but unlikely to me.

 

[Jaydogrules]

3 minutes ago, namisgr said:

You draw conclusions that are unwarranted from what I've written.  To repeat, I wrote that the discussion would benefit from waiting from 3-6 months after the release of the new movie to attempt to draw conclusions on the sustainability of the recent price rise.  You've made up a viewpoint for me on the sustainability out of thin air.

 

And make no mistake about it, it's more recent than a year.  A quick perusal of GPA data shows that 5.0, 6.0, and 6.5 copies sold for far less in summer of 2016 than they've gone for much more recently.

 

The suggestion stands: instead of trying to be jaydogmatic, it may be better for the health of the discussion in this thread to table the consideration of the sustainability of the recent marked price increases when enough time has passed that it can be better assessed.

By saying we should wait until 3-6 months after the movie, you necessarily at least imply that you believe that the fortunes of the book are in some way tied to the movie.  

Which is why I responded as I did. 

And I didn't say anything about the mid range grades you mention in the post.  Although I would probably point out that most grades of AF 15 were probably selling for less in 2016.  I said the surge started in chief then, not that it ended then.  

-J.

[VintageComics]

33 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

It's been more than a year already now.

Has it?

Then why did an Amazing Fantasy #15 CGC 9.4 sell for below exactions a year ago?

33 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

 Going on 4 months I believe since even that uber-pivotal CC auction and prices appear to still be escalating, now in the lowest of grades and some MC copies.

New flash: Amazing Fantasy prices have been escalating for 56 years now.

Edited June 30, 2017 by VintageComics