• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 off-white pages be more desirable than 9.8 white pages?

Started by Mumford's Comics,

233 posts in this topic

chrisco37

chrisco37

Posted
Posted
Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

Resub a book with cream pages and have it come back with white pages and then ask me this question again.

 

Do you have an example of a previous cream coming back as white?

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again....I resubbed a book that originally had LT-OW pages come back as straight OW.

 

I don't have scans, but there are a few boardies that can verify the story.

 

What are LT-OW pages?

Light tan to off-white.

 

Yep. Worse than Cream.

 

When I resubbed it, I was hoping for a PQ bump to Cream or CROW. I was really happy when the grade came back.

 

And free forever from paying any sort of PQ premium. :cloud9:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JAM_NYC

JAM_NYC

Posted
Posted
Balham's Finest,

The reason I bring it up is because I'm seeing more & more people wanting white pages over off-white pages for the same grade. To counter their thinking I would think off-white would be more desirable because it has the same grade despite having a lower page quality.

 

As I stated before, I don't personally care about page quality just the grade.

 

Okay, I will try to explain this one more time.

 

So....a CGC 9.8 with cream pages would be even better. hm

 

You're actually not explaining anything, you're asking me a question without a question mark at the end, but you're definitely not explaining anything with your above comment . I have never seen a 9.8 with cream pages.

 

It's very simple, if 2 cgc books have the same grade but one has a lower page quality & still grades out the same as the one with white pages there should be no reason someone would prefer the one with white pages. Which is what people are doing. If page quality has no bearing, then CGC shouldn't put it on the label where people would think it matters so much to pay more for white over off-white.

 

Okay. I will re-explain what others and myself have already explained.

 

First of all. I wasn't asking a question. I was "thinking". Being absurd to make a point. Hence the hm thinker at the end of my sentence.

 

Now to the explanation that has already been explained to you.

 

That number in the upper left hand corner of a CGC slabbed book (the grade given by CGC), has NOTHING to do with page whiteness or lack thereof.

 

The reason that page whiteness is notated on a label, is BECAUSE it has nothing to do with the given grade. They are two separate things. One is the structural grade of the paper, and the other is the color of the paper. Structural condition and color are not the same thing. Perhaps they should be, but they are not at this time.

 

Page whiteness (or lack thereof) and the "grade" given to a book. Are two separate things. Hence why they are both annotated on the label. Instead of just having a grade and nothing else.

 

Two separate things. Not a joint thing.

 

How many 9.8 cream pages have you seen? Give me a number. How many moderns with a 9.9 or 10.0 with cream pages for that matter? Tell me again how page quality doesn't matter.

 

Just because the CGC company line says one thing, doesn't mean they actually abide by it. They (CGC) are humans, there is no way they can accurately grade the massive amounts of books they get a daily basis 52 weeks a year. I have resubmitted many books & gotten back vastly differing grades & page quaities on the same book. To think they wouldn't do something just because they claim they don't is just naive.

It seems from your OP that you mistakingly thought PQ has an effect on grade. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but are you saying that the info other boardies gave you is wrong? And cgc lies to people by saying PQ is not factored into the grade, but then they factor it into the grade anyway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Timely

Timely

Posted
Posted

The quality of the pages can affect the grade. Listed below is the highest grade a book can receive based on its page quality.

 

Cream to off-white 9.8 cream to off-white can only get up to 9.6 if they are modern.

light tan to off-white 8.5

tan to off-white 7.5

slightly brittle 6.5

brittle 3.5

 

hope this chart helps.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BlowUpTheMoon

BlowUpTheMoon

Posted
Posted
The quality of the pages can affect the grade. Listed below is the highest grade a book can receive based on its page quality.

 

Cream to off-white 9.8 cream to off-white can only get up to 9.6 if they are modern.

light tan to off-white 8.5

tan to off-white 7.5

slightly brittle 6.5

brittle 3.5

 

hope this chart helps.

 

 

A follow up chart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
USArmyParatrooper

USArmyParatrooper

Posted
Posted
The quality of the pages can affect the grade. Listed below is the highest grade a book can receive based on its page quality.

 

Cream to off-white 9.8 cream to off-white can only get up to 9.6 if they are modern.

light tan to off-white 8.5

tan to off-white 7.5

slightly brittle 6.5

brittle 3.5

 

hope this chart helps.

 

 

True, but you're just further confusing someone who is already confused. Yes, the PQ can effect the maximum allowable grade. But the page quality isn't at all factored into the grade of OWW comics, the OP's example. I've seen a 9.9 OWW (or was it a 10?).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mumford's Comics

Mumford's Comics

Posted
  • Author
Posted
The quality of the pages can affect the grade. Listed below is the highest grade a book can receive based on its page quality.

 

Cream to off-white 9.8 cream to off-white can only get up to 9.6 if they are modern.

light tan to off-white 8.5

tan to off-white 7.5

slightly brittle 6.5

brittle 3.5

 

hope this chart helps.

 

 

Thank you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
revat

revat

Posted
Posted

 

 

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

 

this totally makes sense, and I'm not sure why someone didn't mention it.

 

Here's a very secret answer that apparently eludes some people.:

 

Many people want their comics to be in the condition as close as possible to when it was first released, or first printed. Some of those people are willing to pay more for that. COmic pages were white when they were first printed and put on the shelves. Therefore there are people willing to pay more for the white pages.

 

Glad I have a Master's Degree so I could come up with that pearl of wisdom. Its a secret, don't tell anyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mumford's Comics

Mumford's Comics

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

 

this totally makes sense, and I'm not sure why someone didn't mention it.

 

Here's a very secret answer that apparently eludes some people.:

 

Many people want their comics to be in the condition as close as possible to when it was first released, or first printed. Some of those people are willing to pay more for that. COmic pages were white when they were first printed and put on the shelves. Therefore there are people willing to pay more for the white pages.

 

Glad I have a Master's Degree so I could come up with that pearl of wisdom. Its a secret, don't tell anyone.

 

People want their comics to be pristine 10.0 gem mint perfect. They would prefer that to a 9.8 or 9.9 copy, so you're point isn't exactly correct. I'm pretty sure most people would pay more for a CGC 9.9 off-white over a CGC 9.8 white.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wardevil0

wardevil0

Posted
Posted
How many 9.8 cream pages have you seen? Give me a number. How many moderns with a 9.9 or 10.0 with cream pages for that matter? Tell me again how page quality doesn't matter.

 

Just because the CGC company line says one thing, doesn't mean they actually abide by it. They (CGC) are humans, there is no way they can accurately grade the massive amounts of books they get a daily basis 52 weeks a year. I have resubmitted many books & gotten back vastly differing grades & page quaities on the same book. To think they wouldn't do something just because they claim they don't is just naive.

 

Proof that at least this once page quality didn't matter:

 

Wolverine (Limited Series) #1 (Marvel, 1982) CGC MT 10 Off-white to white pages....

Lot 91348 » Modern Age (1980-Present)

Service: CGC

Grade: MT 10.0

2009 May Signature Comics & Comic Art Auction 7007

Auction Date:

May 21, 2009

Bid Source: Live: Phone

Sold For: $15,535.00

 

One of many threads on the topic

 

This is a GEM MINT 10 with off-white to white pages. The debate at the time was, how can a comic achieve the maximum grade of flawless perfection, it its pages are less than perfect? Apparently, CGC does not factor page quality into the little number in the corner.

 

At least, that one time.

 

And this time... here is a 9.9 Mint with off-white to white pages.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
chromium

chromium

Posted
Posted

I've said it before, and I'll say it again....I resubbed a book that originally had LT-OW pages come back as straight OW.

 

I don't have scans, but there are a few boardies that can verify the story.

 

Yes, but that was during your "lost years" :whistle:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
conditionfreak

conditionfreak

Posted
Posted
Balham's Finest,

The reason I bring it up is because I'm seeing more & more people wanting white pages over off-white pages for the same grade. To counter their thinking I would think off-white would be more desirable because it has the same grade despite having a lower page quality.

 

As I stated before, I don't personally care about page quality just the grade.

 

Okay, I will try to explain this one more time.

 

So....a CGC 9.8 with cream pages would be even better. hm

 

You're actually not explaining anything, you're asking me a question without a question mark at the end, but you're definitely not explaining anything with your above comment . I have never seen a 9.8 with cream pages.

 

It's very simple, if 2 cgc books have the same grade but one has a lower page quality & still grades out the same as the one with white pages there should be no reason someone would prefer the one with white pages. Which is what people are doing. If page quality has no bearing, then CGC shouldn't put it on the label where people would think it matters so much to pay more for white over off-white.

 

Okay. I will re-explain what others and myself have already explained.

 

First of all. I wasn't asking a question. I was "thinking". Being absurd to make a point. Hence the hm thinker at the end of my sentence.

 

Now to the explanation that has already been explained to you.

 

That number in the upper left hand corner of a CGC slabbed book (the grade given by CGC), has NOTHING to do with page whiteness or lack thereof.

 

The reason that page whiteness is notated on a label, is BECAUSE it has nothing to do with the given grade. They are two separate things. One is the structural grade of the paper, and the other is the color of the paper. Structural condition and color are not the same thing. Perhaps they should be, but they are not at this time.

 

Page whiteness (or lack thereof) and the "grade" given to a book. Are two separate things. Hence why they are both annotated on the label. Instead of just having a grade and nothing else.

 

Two separate things. Not a joint thing.

 

How many 9.8 cream pages have you seen? Give me a number. How many moderns with a 9.9 or 10.0 with cream pages for that matter? Tell me again how page quality doesn't matter.

 

Just because the CGC company line says one thing, doesn't mean they actually abide by it. They (CGC) are humans, there is no way they can accurately grade the massive amounts of books they get a daily basis 52 weeks a year. I have resubmitted many books & gotten back vastly differing grades & page quaities on the same book. To think they wouldn't do something just because they claim they don't is just naive.

 

You tend to focus in on the little things, that hide the fact that you do not understand the sounds that are coming out of my mouth.

 

The grade does not take into consideration the page color, when books have ow-w or just white.

 

I think that you originally were under a misconception that they did, and now you are trying to cover your not understanding this, by grasping at straws.

 

A CGC 9.8 of ASM #250 that has off white pages, is not a better book (structurally) than a CGC 9.8 ASM #250 that has white pages.

 

To confuse you even further. Both could be equal. Given that on any given day, CGC could say a book is off white, and then another day, they could say that same book has white pages.

 

But (now get ready to try and understand this, without an attitude), those two ASM #250's, only differ in page coloration. Not structural integrity. Both are 9.8's. One is not a higher 9.8 than the other.

 

But this does not preclude that one may be more desirable than the other, due to page quality or a mis-wrap (which does not factor into the grade either).

 

I never said that there were 9.8 books with cream pages. But apparently there are cream to off white page 9.8's. What I did was illustrate your confusion about this situation, with an extreme example of your hypothesis.

 

I love it when someone says "do this" or "give me a number". Why would I ask how high, when you say "jump"? Now, you are arguing that CGC employees are only human and thus they can make mistakes.

 

Duh. :facepalm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Go to topic listing