Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 off-white pages be more desirable than 9.8 white pages?

[DrWatson]

I have a follow up question;

 

 

this thread is stupid.

 

 

 

Thanks,

Sal

 

 

 

 

That's not a question.

 

 

 

I was honouring the spirit of the thread

Stupidity should never be honored.

I was using the term ironically. I hear that's how the kids are rolling these days

Stop trying to relate to the kids today. It makes one look old and pathetic.

I don't need to try and relate to the kids to satisfy your first condition. And it would take a lot more than that to satisfy your second. So, I appreciate your advice, given you are something of a savant when it comes to relating to kids of any era

I work at a high school. So, I have no desire to relate to them, only to tell them what to do and how to do it.

[Jeffro.]

Wait, was this thread good? Seemed like a dump initial post so I gave it a pass. I didn't miss any butthurt did I?

 

Basically, mumfio is right and everybody else is wrong.

 

And yes, definite n00b butthurt going on

[Speedy-D]

Wait, was this thread good? Seemed like a dump initial post so I gave it a pass. I didn't miss any butthurt did I?

I meant 'dumb,' but I like this typo.

[Jeffro.]

That is a pretty awesome typo

[passion4comics]

White pages are more desirable. I put a 20% premium for high end books pre 1970 with white pages. Pre 1979 keys. Example: my SS#4 9.8 in white that I bought last year. I was called by the same auction house that sold it to me with an offer from a client for 40% more than what I paid. Why? White pages. The FF1 8.0 that I bid on and lost went for 30% more in white pages than the copy I bought a month later that was ow/w. I’ve passed on multiple X-Men 94’s in 9.8 because they were not white pages, but love my white page perfect registration 9.6; which may be a 9.8 without even one page tick. Then I factor in their spines too. If the spine is not perfect or near perfect I’ll pass on it even if the grade is 9.8 or 9.9 white or not white. Staples banged onto the front cover, if it’s a gold book I may live with it, if it’s post 1960 I’ll pass on it. An example was that ASM 55 9.8 that sold recently had staples about a quarter inch onto the cover. I wouldn’t want that in my collection. I look at books with this order of importance:

 

Grade – highest I can afford

wrap –deal breaker

staple placement – deal breaker

Page color – deciding factor on what I am willing to pay

 

Page color is a heavy deciding factor, but I can live with ow/w or even ow depending on how rare the book is. I want it as close to being on the rack as possible the day it was released. Don’t even get me going on signatures.

 

[DrWatson]

Page quality is such an arbitrary designation. Paying a premium for white pages is bananas.

[JAM_NYC]

Wait, was this thread good? Seemed like a dump initial post so I gave it a pass. I didn't miss any butthurt did I?

I meant 'dumb,' but I like this typo.

I think you were right the first time.

[GIJOEISAWESOME-migration]

Page quality is such an arbitrary designation. Paying a premium for white pages is bananas.

 

Butbutbutbutbut, they are white!

[joeypost]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

Resub a book with cream pages and have it come back with white pages and then ask me this question again.

 

Do you have an example of a previous cream coming back as white?

No, when one sends in a cream to off-white old label 9.0 for a crack, press, and resub and gets back a 9.4 with white pages they don't really want anyone to know it used to have cream to off-white pages.

 

I have had CRM/OW books come back OW/W. I knew the PQ was going to get the bump the second I cracked out the slab. I have also had books with pages so dark I almost passed up buying them return OW.

 

 

[DrWatson]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

Resub a book with cream pages and have it come back with white pages and then ask me this question again.

 

Do you have an example of a previous cream coming back as white?

No, when one sends in a cream to off-white old label 9.0 for a crack, press, and resub and gets back a 9.4 with white pages they don't really want anyone to know it used to have cream to off-white pages.

 

I have had CRM/OW books come back OW/W. I knew the PQ wasfgoing to get the bump the second I cracked out the slab. I have also had books with pages so dark I almost passed up buying them return OW.

You're just makin' that mess up. If the CGC don't say those pages are white, then they ain't nothin'!

[etanick]

Balham's Finest,

The reason I bring it up is because I'm seeing more & more people wanting white pages over off-white pages for the same grade. To counter their thinking I would think off-white would be more desirable because it has the same grade despite having a lower page quality.

 

As I stated before, I don't personally care about page quality just the grade.

 

Okay, I will try to explain this one more time.

 

So....a CGC 9.8 with cream pages would be even better.

 

You're actually not explaining anything, you're asking me a question without a question mark at the end, but you're definitely not explaining anything with your above comment . I have never seen a 9.8 with cream pages.

 

It's very simple, if 2 cgc books have the same grade but one has a lower page quality & still grades out the same as the one with white pages there should be no reason someone would prefer the one with white pages. Which is what people are doing. If page quality has no bearing, then CGC shouldn't put it on the label where people would think it matters so much to pay more for white over off-white.

 

so the buyers that are willing and wanting to pay more for lessen PQ are stupid....end of discussion. You can't reason with stupid

[Jaydogrules]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

Resub a book with cream pages and have it come back with white pages and then ask me this question again.

 

Do you have an example of a previous cream coming back as white?

No, when one sends in a cream to off-white old label 9.0 for a crack, press, and resub and gets back a 9.4 with white pages they don't really want anyone to know it used to have cream to off-white pages.

 

I have had CRM/OW books come back OW/W. I knew the PQ was going to get the bump the second I cracked out the slab. I have also had books with pages so dark I almost passed up buying them return OW.

 

 

It's like I said, the people who religiously drink the PQ Kool-Aid need to rationalize to themselves why they paid more for supposedly "white pages". But it only takes another person who doesn't care either way to pay even more for the same book in the same grade with "cr/ow" pages to destroy their theory that their "white" paged books are "worth" more simply because they have "white" pages. They are not worth more. Only to themselves. Other than the pages being brittle, PQ just isn't that important, even less so as the book becomes rarer and more key.

 

-J.

 

[simply2fly]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

Resub a book with cream pages and have it come back with white pages and then ask me this question again.

 

Do you have an example of a previous cream coming back as white?

No, when one sends in a cream to off-white old label 9.0 for a crack, press, and resub and gets back a 9.4 with white pages they don't really want anyone to know it used to have cream to off-white pages.

 

I have had CRM/OW books come back OW/W. I knew the PQ was going to get the bump the second I cracked out the slab. I have also had books with pages so dark I almost passed up buying them return OW.

 

 

It's like I said, the people who religiously drink the PQ Kool-Aid need to rationalize to themselves why they paid more for supposedly "white pages". But it only takes another person who doesn't care either way to pay even more for the same book in the same grade with "cr/ow" pages to destroy their theory that their "white" paged books are "worth" more simply because they have "white" pages. They are not worth more. Only to themselves. Other than the pages being brittle, PQ just isn't that important, even more so as the book becomes rarer and more key.

 

-J.

 

Please - ALL comics and collectibles are only worth what someone is willing to pay... I'm not sure exactly what your point is here. Bottom line is that white pages represents a condition that is closer to how it was originally issued - and THAT is what makes it desirable. If you don't care about the page quality... that's just fine but you are buying books that have been degraded by oxidation. Has nothing to do with 'PQ kool-aid'.

[DrWatson]

Sure it does, especially when you're taking someone else's opinion as fact in regards to the page quality.

[Jeffro.]

 

It's like I said, the people who religiously drink the PQ Kool-Aid need to rationalize to themselves why they paid more for supposedly "white pages". But it only takes another person who doesn't care either way to pay even more for the same book in the same grade with "cr/ow" pages to destroy their theory that their "white" paged books are "worth" more simply because they have "white" pages. They are not worth more. Only to themselves. Other than the pages being brittle, PQ just isn't that important, even less so as the book becomes rarer and more key.

 

-J.

 

This isn't exactly true. Sure, some collectors are willing to pay a premium for W pages. Some dealers know this and will sometimes price their books a little higher because of that. Don't know how common that is but I have seen it.

 

 

[simply2fly]

Sure it does, especially when you're taking someone else's opinion as fact in regards to the page quality.

 

If you don't "take someone else's opinion as fact..." why bother having it graded in the first place? I have some low grade books that I'm willing to sell you at NM prices... IMHO they are 9.8's... so that makes sense right?

 

Do you understand how they judge the PQ? It's a pretty straightforward process and not a lot of room for interpretation. Is your position that books are routinely not graded correctly in terms of PQ? I believe that is actually the most consistent thing being graded.

 

 

[Sal]

Bottom line is that white pages represents a condition that is closer to how it was originally issued - and THAT is what makes it desirable. If you don't care about the page quality... that's just fine but you are buying books that have been degraded by oxidation. Has nothing to do with 'PQ kool-aid'.

 

 

Please note; blanket statements follow.

 

In the abstract, you are correct. Metaphysically speaking, white pages denote a condition closer to original than off-white, or even off-white to white.

 

However, in the real world, page quality can very often - very often - change on any book from submission to submission. It is a capricious and ephemeral notation. Especially on old-label slabs, which are nearly always bumped up in PQ designation upon resub.

 

Not to mention impermanent. That slab with a white page designation that has been kept in a storage facility or other non-climate controlled area could certainly no longer have white pages.

 

 

So, yeah, if you want to make the judgment that the PQ designation is forever and irretrievably absolute, go ahead and pay a premium. If it makes you happier about your purchase then sure. The rest of us will bemoan the artificially inflated prices on our funnybooks but this is balanced by the suppressed prices on books which have the unlucky state of being determined to be anything but white at that particular point in time

[Sal]

Is your position that books are routinely not graded correctly in terms of PQ? I believe that is actually the most consistent thing being graded.

 

 

Your belief is not supported by the facts as I have witnessed. Copper Age and later books are more likely to have PQ designations which will remain the same upon any number of submissions, but there are just far too many examples of Bronze and Silver Age books which have fluctuated on PQ upon resub to buffer your statement

[DrWatson]

Sure it does, especially when you're taking someone else's opinion as fact in regards to the page quality.

 

If you don't "take someone else's opinion as fact..." why bother having it graded in the first place? I have some low grade books that I'm willing to sell you at NM prices... IMHO they are 9.8's... so that makes sense right?

 

Do you understand how they judge the PQ? It's a pretty straightforward process and not a lot of room for interpretation. Is your position that books are routinely not graded correctly in terms of PQ? I believe that is actually the most consistent thing being graded.

...

 

[wardevil0]

 

This is the only page quality authority I know of, and it certainly doesn't have as many graduations as CGC uses. There's a lot of room for discrepancies when they start talking about "cream" and "light tan," neither of which are illustrated here. If there is another, better PQ guide, please post.