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Heritage May 2014

Started by DocR,

482 posts in this topic

Nexus

Nexus

Posted
Posted

 

Bronty is correct. Setting aside the obvious hypocrisy for a moment...my point was, if you don't already know who the players are, then any names someone throws out will be meaningless to you...it will just be a list of random names as far as you're concerned. That won't be useful information at all, if you're attempting to measure up the competition.

 

 

Don't be a doofus. There is no hypocrisy in respecting the anonymity of those who want anonymity and mentioning the names of those who obviously don't mind.

 

And there's no harm in asking for info. Sometimes, you get some. And research is easy. As I said, I've never regretted surveying the playing field.

 

No, the hypocrisy comes from a poster asking on a public forum for the identities of those who would be interested in this auction to be revealed...while remaining anonymous himself. :makepoint:You make no distinction in your request between those with a public profile and those who are more private. In addition, why do you presume that the known names don't mind an anonymous poster speculating about their intent on a message board?

 

At the very least, an anonymous poster seeking openness and transparency is ironic, no?

 

Of course there's no harm in asking. You just won't get far asking for this information publicly. I may be a doofus, but even I have enough common sense to know that. :makepoint:

 

 

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Koa

Koa

Posted
Posted
I hear about these "black hole" collectors. Guys who bought up art cheap in the 70's and 80's. Others who "liberated" stacks of art from marvel and DC. They are more than 2 or 3 guys. I wonder why more of them don't sell off portions of their lesser art to fund runs at auctions like this.

 

What makes you think they don't? Not every sale is public and not everyone is willing to share information. This is especially true when the information may lead to a treasure trove of artwork.

I'm not assuming. My question is just part of the ongoing discussion. Another poster mentioned the possibility of this piece being limited to the same 2 or 3 guys...Well, I am assuming there are more than 2-3 collectors who could generate the funds through their collections to compete in these auctions visa these mythical 'black hole" collections.

 

Not long ago gene wrote up his experience cosigning with heritage where he discussed how limited the interest for particular pieces could be as well. This seems to happen at most price ranges.

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delekkerste

delekkerste

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Posted
But... since the comparable pages in issue 181 don't exist, nor does that splash, because they were burned up in the fire, then it's really a moot point, isn't it?

 

Or is it...

 

Mr. Burkey posted this on Comicart-L:

 

I don't believe this story below is correct....i'm pretty sure hulk 181 pages will surface in the future. :whatthe:

 

I actually heard some rumors to this effect (that the pages weren't destroyed in the fire after all) a while back...is there any validity to them? hm

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Terry Doyle

Terry Doyle

Posted
Posted

 

Bronty is correct. Setting aside the obvious hypocrisy for a moment...my point was, if you don't already know who the players are, then any names someone throws out will be meaningless to you...it will just be a list of random names as far as you're concerned. That won't be useful information at all, if you're attempting to measure up the competition.

 

 

Don't be a doofus. There is no hypocrisy in respecting the anonymity of those who want anonymity and mentioning the names of those who obviously don't mind.

 

And there's no harm in asking for info. Sometimes, you get some. And research is easy. As I said, I've never regretted surveying the playing field.

 

 

No, the hypocrisy comes from a poster asking on a public forum for the identities of those who would be interested in this auction to be revealed...while remaining anonymous himself. :makepoint:You make no distinction in your request between those with a public profile and those who are more private. In addition, why do you presume that the known names don't mind an anonymous poster speculating about their intent on a message board?

 

At the very least, an anonymous poster seeking openness and transparency is ironic, no?

 

Of course there's no harm in asking. You just won't get far asking for this information publicly. I may be a doofus, but even I have enough common sense to know that. :makepoint:

 

 

I had a run-in, a while back, with an anonymous poster asking lots of questions about other collectors, but volunteering nothing about himself.

 

Very hypocritical, yes.

 

Difficult to take such people seriously . . .

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Sharkey

Sharkey

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Posted
But... since the comparable pages in issue 181 don't exist, nor does that splash, because they were burned up in the fire, then it's really a moot point, isn't it?

 

Or is it...

 

Mr. Burkey posted this on Comicart-L:

 

I don't believe this story below is correct....i'm pretty sure hulk 181 pages will surface in the future. :whatthe:

 

I actually heard some rumors to this effect (that the pages weren't destroyed in the fire after all) a while back...is there any validity to them? hm

 

I hadn't heard this rumor, but perhaps it's true - I'd sure trust Mike's intel.

 

Has anyone actually asked Len if he can confirm whether the Hulk 181 art got burned up or not?

 

 

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heartened

heartened

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Posted
Hmm, could these kind of rumors keep the deep pockets from bidding as high with hopes of a 181 splash coming out? spy.gif

 

(probably not)

 

Uh, this would absolutely hurt the price of the 180 page. Just imagine if only one X-Men 1 page existed, one FF 5 page, etc. etc. That one remaining page would be exponentially more valuable. If 181 exists, then about 20-25 people get to have an early Wolvie page; right now people have to fight for the one and only page (excluding the 182 page). That's a very big difference.

 

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stinkininkin

stinkininkin

Posted
Posted
Hmm, could these kind of rumors keep the deep pockets from bidding as high with hopes of a 181 splash coming out? spy.gif

 

(probably not)

 

Uh, this would absolutely hurt the price of the 180 page. Just imagine if only one X-Men 1 page existed, one FF 5 page, etc. etc. That one remaining page would be exponentially more valuable. If 181 exists, then about 20-25 people get to have an early Wolvie page; right now people have to fight for the one and only page (excluding the 182 page). That's a very big difference.

 

Forgive my ignorance since I already admitted that historical first appearance appeal is not burned as strongly in my DNA as it is with some, but I thought the main appeal to this page is that it is THE first appearance. So how would all the pages from 181 being available change that?

 

Scott

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heartened

heartened

Posted
Posted
Hmm, could these kind of rumors keep the deep pockets from bidding as high with hopes of a 181 splash coming out? spy.gif

 

(probably not)

 

Uh, this would absolutely hurt the price of the 180 page. Just imagine if only one X-Men 1 page existed, one FF 5 page, etc. etc. That one remaining page would be exponentially more valuable. If 181 exists, then about 20-25 people get to have an early Wolvie page; right now people have to fight for the one and only page (excluding the 182 page). That's a very big difference.

 

Forgive my ignorance since I already admitted that historical first appearance appeal is not burned as strongly in my DNA as it is with some, but I thought the main appeal to this page is that it is THE first appearance. So how would all the pages from 181 being available change that?

 

Scott

 

In the same way that Hulk 181 is quite a bit more expensive than Hulk 180. At the end off the day, Hulk 180 is not the money shot - pages from Hulk 181 would be. I realize this is a just not true from an OA standpoint, as the 180 image obviously came earlier. But first appearance OA collectors collect art from the first appearance books, and in this case that book is Hulk 181.

 

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delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted
Hmm, could these kind of rumors keep the deep pockets from bidding as high with hopes of a 181 splash coming out? spy.gif

 

(probably not)

 

Uh, this would absolutely hurt the price of the 180 page. Just imagine if only one X-Men 1 page existed, one FF 5 page, etc. etc. That one remaining page would be exponentially more valuable. If 181 exists, then about 20-25 people get to have an early Wolvie page; right now people have to fight for the one and only page (excluding the 182 page). That's a very big difference.

 

Forgive my ignorance since I already admitted that historical first appearance appeal is not burned as strongly in my DNA as it is with some, but I thought the main appeal to this page is that it is THE first appearance. So how would all the pages from 181 being available change that?

 

Scott

 

I think there would definitely be additional scarcity value to the #180 if the #181 pages did not exist. If they did, I count 13 pages in that book with Wolverine in at least one panel (14 if you count one page with just his feet!), though I would say that only two or three pages (including the splash) from #181 would rival the quality of the #180 page with its big Wolverine shot and first appearance. If the #181 pages did exist, I'd be curious to see what they'd fetch on the open market, as some of the pages don't have great content (e.g., Wolverine has his back turned, or he's tiny, or barely in one panel, etc.) I'm sure everything would fetch crazy prices given that so many people would want a piece, but there's "crazy" and then there's "krazy". Would people pay $100K+ for pages where you can't see Wolvie's face? (shrug)

 

Does anyone have any idea of what the GSXM #1 first appearance pages (and Wolverine pages, for that matter) would fetch these days? Just curious to know how much they would fetch vs. this Hulk #180 page. hm

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Nexus

Nexus

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Posted

In the same way that Hulk 181 is quite a bit more expensive than Hulk 180. At the end off the day, Hulk 180 is not the money shot - pages from Hulk 181 would be. I realize this is a just not true from an OA standpoint, as the 180 image obviously came earlier. But first appearance OA collectors collect art from the first appearance books, and in this case that book is Hulk 181.

 

I've always accepted the comic hobby's decision of #181 being the first appearance, with #180 relegated to "cameo" status. But looking at the #180 OA page now, it is quite evident...the hobby got it wrong. This is unquestionably the first appearance of Wolverine.

 

Those collectors who collect art from first appearance books will be satisfied with something from #181. Those who want the actual first appearance have only one option.

 

Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the winner of the #180 page also got a #181 page (if/when they surface) just to make sure all his bases are covered! :insane:

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AKA Rick

AKA Rick

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...the 180 image obviously came earlier.

 

But looking at the #180 OA page now, it is quite evident...the hobby got it wrong. This is unquestionably the first appearance of Wolverine.

 

You're right... it should be the 100% undisputed truth, Nexus!

 

Even more so the truth for the Original Art sector, but still I'd maintain the same definition of "1st" being nothing short of sequentially and chronologically the first... and #180 comes before #181.

 

It could be different if the appearance was vague with the character lurking in the shadows; a part of the body is shown; the character is mentioned in name only; the character is yet to be named or identity revealed; or anything cryptic.

 

Fact of the matter is this is a full appearance in character name and design, it doesn't matter if it's on a last page teasing into the next issue.

 

So, that settles the definition of "1st" - -but as far as value goes, the hobby's laws of supply and demand can dictate whatever it wants in the marketplace to which is more valuable, so... sure #181 is worth more than #180 because more people want it.

 

I think for comic art however this #180 page would rival if not possibly beat the cover of #181 or the title splash page of #181 for it's status as the 1st rendering of the character published, and could easily be coveted more than any other page within #181.

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