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Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221
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Started by Spider-Dan,

2,401 posts in this topic

porky

porky

Posted
Posted

The "- CGC misses resto sometimes (see #5 above) It happens." is what I have an issue with. I can live with missing resto. Stuff happens. But when they see resto that isn't there?... Some 'splainin' to do.

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CBT

CBT

Posted
Posted

 

Conversely, does the fact that I do know the answer mean I am a sociopath?

 

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/sister.asp

 

snopes.com is run by a couple and has many errors in i, think PGX of urban legend busting.

 

While many articles there contain truth, they also have many errors of omission, and some serious political bias.

 

There is also an ongoing war between them and other myth busters, as to who is more biased, and who is more legit, who is more political, etc, etc. It takes a fair bit of time to get to the real meat on who owns and runs it, as there is as much gibberish about them, as they produce themselves.

 

At the end of the day, quoting snopes is akin to quoting wikipedia. Not saying it may not be very right in this case, just important to point out it has no guarantee of truth or authority, and some very biased/lacking articles.

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Silver Surfer

Silver Surfer

Posted
Posted
I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Would depend who is behind the new venture.

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Old Fashion PB and J

Old Fashion PB and J

Posted
Posted
I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Would depend who is behind the new venture.

+1 and with the right people supporting that business it could take off.
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timfinz

timfinz

Posted
Posted
I too have not read this entire thread but I get the jist of it.

 

Would it be more conducive to discretely "tattoo" the interior of the book with the CGC number to prevent this kind of fiasco? I think it would certainly prevent the books from going through the resubmittal and screwing up the census.

 

 

If i remember correctly, PSA/DNA has invisible ink. CGC could use that to barcode a book.

 

THEY BETTER NOT.

I don't want them adding chemicals to a book I won.

If I take it out and keep it raw why should they keep their mark on it

If they were to use invisible UV ink to "tattoo" the book in an inconspicuous area inside the book what difference would it make to you? Just means that if someone were to resubmit the book for grading it would come up in the CGC system as a book that had already been graded.

 

At least the customer could be notified that the book had previously been graded. I'm sure there are other logical advantages that could come of this!

That the book was previously means squat.

The person breaks it out for SS or mishandles it. IT results in new grade. The tattoo will accomplish nothing except add chemicals to a book that is sensitive to chemicals

So tell me why someone would break it out of a holder, mis-handle it and then submit it to expect a higher grade??????????????????????

But sometimes people bust books out for other reasons.years ago I broke out my ST 110 because I wanted to read it,smell it ect...Since then I have upgraded,this time with a raw book.with the prices going nuts I may one day(shudder) trade my old copy for something.said person who gets this book(with the old label label saved for them) may very well re submit...I take great care of my comics,but cannot guarantee it was not damaged at all....the tattooing idea leaves a terrible taste in my mouth.

It's not like an ink-like tattoo. I just used the terminology to give you the idea that if the books were "tagged" that at least there would be some way of knowing the history of the book. And I'm not saying that the only reason someone breaks open a slabbed book is to resubmit it hoping to get a higher grade but let's not fool ourselves, is that not what ultimately happened here?

 

If the book had been "inconspicuously tagged" and if the book would have been resubmitted to CGC, they would have scanned the "inconspicuous tag printed with invisible ink somewhere on the interior page(s)" and then they would have informed the graders that it had already been graded previously. I'm sure that they would pull the notes from the previous grade and make a comparison to current condition and then decide from there how it would be handled.

 

The way it is right now someone de-slabs a book and resubmits it hoping for a higher grade because who knows what kind of night the grader had? Fingers crossed it comes back with a higher grade and then you have two books in the census - one of which no longer exists? How often does this happen? How many non-existent resubmitted upgraded books are there?

 

If any of you reading this have participated in the PGM thread or the March/April/May Madness thread, how many of you have tried to grade the same book more than once (and not five or ten minutes a part) I mean like a week later or two? Did you come up with the same grade? Most likely not unless the book is in the very lower or very upper grading tiers.

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LordRahl

LordRahl

Posted
Posted
Really hoping we get an update from the OP on this today...

 

I haven't heard a peep :taptaptap:

 

I don't really expect to

 

I think CGC will address this in public, not via PM with you.

 

CGC is in discussions with the buyer :gossip:

 

I don't understand why they aren't in discussions with YOU. You're the guy that got hosed...

 

No, he didn't. He played the game and lost this particular round. Harsh? Maybe. But it is still reality. How many rounds has he "won" based on CGC's services? I'm guessing a lot more than he's lost given that he is going to continue with this particular business model even after this loss.

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mysterio

mysterio

Posted
Posted (edited)

If CGC really wanted to "tag" books that had been previously graded, I'm not sure why they would need to mark the book at all. Certainly there has to be some type of recognition or mapping software that could be used to scan books for a database. Between the variations in wraps, cuts, and defects like spine stress or creases there would be a fairly good probability that you could capture unique identifiers for a book that would allow a high degree of recognition. Hell, all of us can look at these two scans of the JIM #83 in question and see it is the same book because of the uniqueness of that spine crease and various points along it. This shouldn't be an issue.

 

EDIT: Yes, books can change over various resubmissions, either by accumulating more defects or through something like pressing. Neither of these would alter all of the unique points on a book (for example, where the artwork meets the edges of the front cover wouldn't change unless a book was trimmed, and color breaking creases or spine stress would still be present. Depending on how this was done, it could theoretically contribute to being able to catch spine realignments that simply move color breaking spine stress to the back cover.

Edited by mysterio
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kav

kav

Posted
Posted
I'm pretty sure if You gave me a stereomicroscope and some trimmed and untrimmed books and a few hours I would have a 100% error-free trimming detection rate.....

 

 

I think you boast of claims that you know nothing about.

With a degree in Biology and previous forensics experience I have a pretty good grasp of what is possible to accomplish with a stereomicroscope. Coloration and surface changes in pulp over time is something quantifiable.

 

Wasn't your degree in Physics a few days ago? One degree in the WC, a different one here. You truly are multi-talented.

No I said 'Physical Science'-Biology and minor in Chemistry-Chemistry is a physical science....

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Ares

Ares

Posted
Posted
I too have not read this entire thread but I get the jist of it.

 

Would it be more conducive to discretely "tattoo" the interior of the book with the CGC number to prevent this kind of fiasco? I think it would certainly prevent the books from going through the resubmittal and screwing up the census.

 

 

If i remember correctly, PSA/DNA has invisible ink. CGC could use that to barcode a book.

 

THEY BETTER NOT.

I don't want them adding chemicals to a book I won.

If I take it out and keep it raw why should they keep their mark on it

If they were to use invisible UV ink to "tattoo" the book in an inconspicuous area inside the book what difference would it make to you? Just means that if someone were to resubmit the book for grading it would come up in the CGC system as a book that had already been graded.

 

At least the customer could be notified that the book had previously been graded. I'm sure there are other logical advantages that could come of this!

That the book was previously means squat.

The person breaks it out for SS or mishandles it. IT results in new grade. The tattoo will accomplish nothing except add chemicals to a book that is sensitive to chemicals

So tell me why someone would break it out of a holder, mis-handle it and then submit it to expect a higher grade??????????????????????

But sometimes people bust books out for other reasons.years ago I broke out my ST 110 because I wanted to read it,smell it ect...Since then I have upgraded,this time with a raw book.with the prices going nuts I may one day(shudder) trade my old copy for something.said person who gets this book(with the old label label saved for them) may very well re submit...I take great care of my comics,but cannot guarantee it was not damaged at all....the tattooing idea leaves a terrible taste in my mouth.

It's not like an ink-like tattoo. I just used the terminology to give you the idea that if the books were "tagged" that at least there would be some way of knowing the history of the book. And I'm not saying that the only reason someone breaks open a slabbed book is to resubmit it hoping to get a higher grade but let's not fool ourselves, is that not what ultimately happened here?

 

If the book had been "inconspicuously tagged" and if the book would have been resubmitted to CGC, they would have scanned the "inconspicuous tag printed with invisible ink somewhere on the interior page(s)" and then they would have informed the graders that it had already been graded previously. I'm sure that they would pull the notes from the previous grade and make a comparison to current condition and then decide from there how it would be handled.

 

The way it is right now someone de-slabs a book and resubmits it hoping for a higher grade because who knows what kind of night the grader had? Fingers crossed it comes back with a higher grade and then you have two books in the census - one of which no longer exists? How often does this happen? How many non-existent resubmitted upgraded books are there?

 

If any of you reading this have participated in the PGM thread or the March/April/May Madness thread, how many of you have tried to grade the same book more than once (and not five or ten minutes a part) I mean like a week later or two? Did you come up with the same grade? Most likely not unless the book is in the very lower or very upper grading tiers.

 

Going this route treats the customer like a criminal and exposes the fact that CGC cannot catch all restoration despite their claims. I don't want CGC chemically treating my books just to make their life easier.

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LordRahl

LordRahl

Posted
Posted
I too have not read this entire thread but I get the jist of it.

 

Would it be more conducive to discretely "tattoo" the interior of the book with the CGC number to prevent this kind of fiasco? I think it would certainly prevent the books from going through the resubmittal and screwing up the census.

 

 

If i remember correctly, PSA/DNA has invisible ink. CGC could use that to barcode a book.

 

THEY BETTER NOT.

I don't want them adding chemicals to a book I won.

If I take it out and keep it raw why should they keep their mark on it

If they were to use invisible UV ink to "tattoo" the book in an inconspicuous area inside the book what difference would it make to you? Just means that if someone were to resubmit the book for grading it would come up in the CGC system as a book that had already been graded.

 

At least the customer could be notified that the book had previously been graded. I'm sure there are other logical advantages that could come of this!

That the book was previously means squat.

The person breaks it out for SS or mishandles it. IT results in new grade. The tattoo will accomplish nothing except add chemicals to a book that is sensitive to chemicals

So tell me why someone would break it out of a holder, mis-handle it and then submit it to expect a higher grade??????????????????????

But sometimes people bust books out for other reasons.years ago I broke out my ST 110 because I wanted to read it,smell it ect...Since then I have upgraded,this time with a raw book.with the prices going nuts I may one day(shudder) trade my old copy for something.said person who gets this book(with the old label label saved for them) may very well re submit...I take great care of my comics,but cannot guarantee it was not damaged at all....the tattooing idea leaves a terrible taste in my mouth.

It's not like an ink-like tattoo. I just used the terminology to give you the idea that if the books were "tagged" that at least there would be some way of knowing the history of the book. And I'm not saying that the only reason someone breaks open a slabbed book is to resubmit it hoping to get a higher grade but let's not fool ourselves, is that not what ultimately happened here?

 

If the book had been "inconspicuously tagged" and if the book would have been resubmitted to CGC, they would have scanned the "inconspicuous tag printed with invisible ink somewhere on the interior page(s)" and then they would have informed the graders that it had already been graded previously. I'm sure that they would pull the notes from the previous grade and make a comparison to current condition and then decide from there how it would be handled.

 

The way it is right now someone de-slabs a book and resubmits it hoping for a higher grade because who knows what kind of night the grader had? Fingers crossed it comes back with a higher grade and then you have two books in the census - one of which no longer exists? How often does this happen? How many non-existent resubmitted upgraded books are there?

 

If any of you reading this have participated in the PGM thread or the March/April/May Madness thread, how many of you have tried to grade the same book more than once (and not five or ten minutes a part) I mean like a week later or two? Did you come up with the same grade? Most likely not unless the book is in the very lower or very upper grading tiers.

 

Going this route treats the customer like a criminal and exposes the fact that CGC cannot catch all restoration despite their claims. I don't want CGC chemically treating my books just to make their life easier.

 

Can you point me to where they claim that they can catch all resto?

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Hammerhead

Hammerhead

Posted
Posted
I too have not read this entire thread but I get the jist of it.

 

Would it be more conducive to discretely "tattoo" the interior of the book with the CGC number to prevent this kind of fiasco? I think it would certainly prevent the books from going through the resubmittal and screwing up the census.

 

 

If i remember correctly, PSA/DNA has invisible ink. CGC could use that to barcode a book.

 

THEY BETTER NOT.

I don't want them adding chemicals to a book I won.

If I take it out and keep it raw why should they keep their mark on it

If they were to use invisible UV ink to "tattoo" the book in an inconspicuous area inside the book what difference would it make to you? Just means that if someone were to resubmit the book for grading it would come up in the CGC system as a book that had already been graded.

 

At least the customer could be notified that the book had previously been graded. I'm sure there are other logical advantages that could come of this!

That the book was previously means squat.

The person breaks it out for SS or mishandles it. IT results in new grade. The tattoo will accomplish nothing except add chemicals to a book that is sensitive to chemicals

So tell me why someone would break it out of a holder, mis-handle it and then submit it to expect a higher grade??????????????????????

But sometimes people bust books out for other reasons.years ago I broke out my ST 110 because I wanted to read it,smell it ect...Since then I have upgraded,this time with a raw book.with the prices going nuts I may one day(shudder) trade my old copy for something.said person who gets this book(with the old label label saved for them) may very well re submit...I take great care of my comics,but cannot guarantee it was not damaged at all....the tattooing idea leaves a terrible taste in my mouth.

It's not like an ink-like tattoo. I just used the terminology to give you the idea that if the books were "tagged" that at least there would be some way of knowing the history of the book. And I'm not saying that the only reason someone breaks open a slabbed book is to resubmit it hoping to get a higher grade but let's not fool ourselves, is that not what ultimately happened here?

 

If the book had been "inconspicuously tagged" and if the book would have been resubmitted to CGC, they would have scanned the "inconspicuous tag printed with invisible ink somewhere on the interior page(s)" and then they would have informed the graders that it had already been graded previously. I'm sure that they would pull the notes from the previous grade and make a comparison to current condition and then decide from there how it would be handled.

 

The way it is right now someone de-slabs a book and resubmits it hoping for a higher grade because who knows what kind of night the grader had? Fingers crossed it comes back with a higher grade and then you have two books in the census - one of which no longer exists? How often does this happen? How many non-existent resubmitted upgraded books are there?

 

If any of you reading this have participated in the PGM thread or the March/April/May Madness thread, how many of you have tried to grade the same book more than once (and not five or ten minutes a part) I mean like a week later or two? Did you come up with the same grade? Most likely not unless the book is in the very lower or very upper grading tiers.

 

Going this route treats the customer like a criminal and exposes the fact that CGC cannot catch all restoration despite their claims. I don't want CGC chemically treating my books just to make their life easier.

 

Can you point me to where they claim that they can catch all resto?

 

:gossip: You have a typo in your sig-line wtb, "Kane" not "Cane" :foryou:

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timfinz

timfinz

Posted
Posted
I too have not read this entire thread but I get the jist of it.

 

Would it be more conducive to discretely "tattoo" the interior of the book with the CGC number to prevent this kind of fiasco? I think it would certainly prevent the books from going through the resubmittal and screwing up the census.

 

 

If i remember correctly, PSA/DNA has invisible ink. CGC could use that to barcode a book.

 

THEY BETTER NOT.

I don't want them adding chemicals to a book I won.

If I take it out and keep it raw why should they keep their mark on it

If they were to use invisible UV ink to "tattoo" the book in an inconspicuous area inside the book what difference would it make to you? Just means that if someone were to resubmit the book for grading it would come up in the CGC system as a book that had already been graded.

 

At least the customer could be notified that the book had previously been graded. I'm sure there are other logical advantages that could come of this!

That the book was previously means squat.

The person breaks it out for SS or mishandles it. IT results in new grade. The tattoo will accomplish nothing except add chemicals to a book that is sensitive to chemicals

So tell me why someone would break it out of a holder, mis-handle it and then submit it to expect a higher grade??????????????????????

But sometimes people bust books out for other reasons.years ago I broke out my ST 110 because I wanted to read it,smell it ect...Since then I have upgraded,this time with a raw book.with the prices going nuts I may one day(shudder) trade my old copy for something.said person who gets this book(with the old label label saved for them) may very well re submit...I take great care of my comics,but cannot guarantee it was not damaged at all....the tattooing idea leaves a terrible taste in my mouth.

It's not like an ink-like tattoo. I just used the terminology to give you the idea that if the books were "tagged" that at least there would be some way of knowing the history of the book. And I'm not saying that the only reason someone breaks open a slabbed book is to resubmit it hoping to get a higher grade but let's not fool ourselves, is that not what ultimately happened here?

 

If the book had been "inconspicuously tagged" and if the book would have been resubmitted to CGC, they would have scanned the "inconspicuous tag printed with invisible ink somewhere on the interior page(s)" and then they would have informed the graders that it had already been graded previously. I'm sure that they would pull the notes from the previous grade and make a comparison to current condition and then decide from there how it would be handled.

 

The way it is right now someone de-slabs a book and resubmits it hoping for a higher grade because who knows what kind of night the grader had? Fingers crossed it comes back with a higher grade and then you have two books in the census - one of which no longer exists? How often does this happen? How many non-existent resubmitted upgraded books are there?

 

If any of you reading this have participated in the PGM thread or the March/April/May Madness thread, how many of you have tried to grade the same book more than once (and not five or ten minutes a part) I mean like a week later or two? Did you come up with the same grade? Most likely not unless the book is in the very lower or very upper grading tiers.

 

Going this route treats the customer like a criminal and exposes the fact that CGC cannot catch all restoration despite their claims. I don't want CGC chemically treating my books just to make their life easier.

And I suppose this route that we are in right now is making everyone's lives "easy"?

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