Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[Red84]

I'm satisfied with CGC's response. They admitted that they messed up and I assume they will use this as a learning experience.

 

What I've learned from this entire situation is that trimming is very difficult to detect; and if CGC can sometimes miss it, then it's not the type of restoration that would bother me on a book in my collection.

 

 

[batman_fan]

I'm satisfied with CGC's response. They admitted that they messed up and I assume they will use this as a learning experience.

 

What I've learned from this entire situation is that trimming is very difficult to detect; and if CGC can sometimes miss it, then it's not the type of restoration that would bother me on a book in my collection.

 

 

Even if you have it resubmitted later and it comes back "trimmed" ?

[thehumantorch]

Greetings all,

 

So in going over this JIM #83, we made a mistake on this one.

 

The book IS trimmed (on the top edge of the cover), as we went over it thoroughly in February. So how did it come through just last week and go out the door as a blue label? Well, first off, it was certainly *not* any kind of under-the-table deal with anybody. As it has been often stated, the graders do not know who the submitter is and grades every book as if it is the first time they have seen it. This also has nothing to do with which graders saw the book. Quite simply, when it comes to checking for restoration, some books are *obviously* restored (or trimmed) and some are obviously not. There are a few books, though, where the restoration can be extremely subtle and require extra scrutiny. If nothing sends up a "red flag" for the particular graders on a book, it can, unfortunately (but rarely), get by us.

 

Like others have said in this thread, and we have stated ourselves, we are not perfect. But the team of graders we have here are, bar none, the best in the business. In grading nearly 3 million books, we have admittedly made errors. But when an error is brought to our attention we fix whatever the problem is. We strive to "make it right" for the owner so that everyone comes away satisfied.

 

Right now we are in the process of purchasing the JIM #83 from the new owner in order to remove it from the market.

 

We obviously take great pride in the confidence that people have in CGC, we appreciate their trust, and are always trying to improve our company in every way, from restoration detection, to turnaround times, to our holder, and more.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

 

Good.

Now...

How the heck was it a 7.0 in the purple label case?

A book doesn't get a grade bump just because it's a PLOD correct?

 

The fact that a micro-trim was missed isn't that upsetting to me, since it's happened before.

But the difference between a 6.0 and 7.0 on a JIM 83 is huge.

 

-Yes, I'm the only person in the thread more concerned about that than the trim which probably makes me a weirdo.

 

This thread clearly shows that CGC can't detect trimming consistently. That's very concerning and is the 'headline' of this thread. That the grade can change from 6.0 to 7.0 isn't getting much attention and that's a shame. This thread questions CGC's consistency in regards to both it's restoration detection AND it's grading. Very disturbing.

[Chip Cataldo]

This thread questions CGC's consistency in regards to both it's restoration detection AND it's grading. Very disturbing.

 

It also illustrates that Kav tries too hard. WAY too hard.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

[porky]

Greetings all,

 

So in going over this JIM #83, we made a mistake on this one.

 

The book IS trimmed (on the top edge of the cover), as we went over it thoroughly in February. So how did it come through just last week and go out the door as a blue label? Well, first off, it was certainly *not* any kind of under-the-table deal with anybody. As it has been often stated, the graders do not know who the submitter is and grades every book as if it is the first time they have seen it. This also has nothing to do with which graders saw the book. Quite simply, when it comes to checking for restoration, some books are *obviously* restored (or trimmed) and some are obviously not. There are a few books, though, where the restoration can be extremely subtle and require extra scrutiny. If nothing sends up a "red flag" for the particular graders on a book, it can, unfortunately (but rarely), get by us.

 

Like others have said in this thread, and we have stated ourselves, we are not perfect. But the team of graders we have here are, bar none, the best in the business. In grading nearly 3 million books, we have admittedly made errors. But when an error is brought to our attention we fix whatever the problem is. We strive to "make it right" for the owner so that everyone comes away satisfied.

 

Right now we are in the process of purchasing the JIM #83 from the new owner in order to remove it from the market.

 

We obviously take great pride in the confidence that people have in CGC, we appreciate their trust, and are always trying to improve our company in every way, from restoration detection, to turnaround times, to our holder, and more.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

Thanks that was a cogent response. Are there cases where trim cannot be detected?

 

well, from the case with this issue: if it's a really good trim, it'll slide by 2 out of 3 times?

[lb jefferies]

While I appreciate CGC taking responsibility for this mistake, I'm saddened to hear that the book itself will be "taken off the market".

 

Frankly, I've found this suggestion along with some of the other "remedies" suggested for this situation very disturbing.

 

While I do crack out any CGC comics I purchase for my collection, I'm by no means anti-CGC. I understand that 3rd party grading serves a purpose - to facilitate an equitable transaction between buyers and dealers.

 

However, I've always believed that the comic itself took primacy over the case, the label, the grade, the resto-check, all of the accoutrements associated with CGC's service. The grading service is simply a means to an end.

 

To have a Silver Age key "retired" simply to preserve the reputation of the grading service (who, at the end of the day, are only providing their opinion) or to have some kind of chemical marker added to the book (invisible or otherwise) in the hopes it will help prevent this grading service from making another mistake....

 

I'm sorry, to me it seems the service, the case and the label, instead of being a means to an end, have become the end in itself. The comic is just a superfluous appendage that has to be accommodated.

 

Very well said

[kav]

This thread questions CGC's consistency in regards to both it's restoration detection AND it's grading. Very disturbing.

 

It also illustrates that Kav tries too hard. WAY too hard.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

These threads always end up being about me,

[MetalPSI]

Well when you take up half a thread on your own Kav, yeah I suppose they do

[timfinz]

And now I think we know what your problem is!

 

I have not done this... but I have spent years using

 

[kav]

Well when you take up half a thread on your own Kav, yeah I suppose they do

This is MY THREAD.

You're all just spectators.

[CAHokie]

Kav,

 

Since there is not way I can catch up with this thread, would you mind posting the quote for what GCG's response was?

 

Thanks

[Badger]

How the heck was it a 7.0 in the purple label case?

A book doesn't get a grade bump just because it's a PLOD correct?

 

The fact that a micro-trim was missed isn't that upsetting to me, since it's happened before.

But the difference between a 6.0 and 7.0 on a JIM 83 is huge.

 

-Yes, I'm the only person in the thread more concerned about that than the trim which probably makes me a weirdo.

 

No one who has been paying attention expects CGC ( or practically anyone else) to guarantee they will grade a book the same way twice. Grading is too subjective, and prone to shifting assessments of what the sum of the flaws should mean. In part the faith in CGC's grading is that it is impartial, not that it is absolute. It would be nice if CGC appeared to be a bit more consistent some times, but that's what you are going to get with multiple graders, even if they are using the same criteria. To repeat, there are no absolute grades, the best we can do is find a fairly tight ( generally 2-3 grades) range that most knowledgeable people can agree on. Does CGC sometimes fall outside of a general consensus of what that might be? Yes, and a 7.0 for this particular book may be such a case, but it is hardly unique, and even the most trusted and consistent of graders may at times find their opinion at odds with the bulk of the collecting community.

 

Hush, you! Reasonableness is not allowed in this thread. Please hold your comments so that we can hear more about how the U.S. is artificially inflating OA prices by printing money and how sociopaths are running CGC.

[Red84]

I'm satisfied with CGC's response. They admitted that they messed up and I assume they will use this as a learning experience.

 

What I've learned from this entire situation is that trimming is very difficult to detect; and if CGC can sometimes miss it, then it's not the type of restoration that would bother me on a book in my collection.

 

 

Even if you have it resubmitted later and it comes back "trimmed" ?

 

I don't crack slabs and re-submit so I wouldn't have that issue.

 

EDIT: . Fixed that typo.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Red84

[kav]

Kav,

 

Since there is not way I can catch up with this thread, would you mind posting the quote for what GCG's response was?

 

Thanks

They said that when they first graded the book it was untrimmed. Then someone trimmed it, and they caught that. Then, someone managed to glue back on the missing pieces and it was, correctly, labelled 'untrimmed'. Then some fool trimmed it again and they caught that.

They do not know what all the hubbub is about.

[mrmyst]

He ain't no slap cracker.

[CAHokie]

I hope that was a summation and not a direct quote.

[kav]

I hope that was a summation and not a direct quote.

Yep that's why i dint use "quote" marks.

[Red84]

He ain't no slap cracker.

 

[kav]

He ain't no slap cracker.

 

And thus a new board term is born........

[A.Romeo]

Greetings all,

 

So in going over this JIM #83, we made a mistake on this one.

 

The book IS trimmed (on the top edge of the cover), as we went over it thoroughly in February. So how did it come through just last week and go out the door as a blue label? Well, first off, it was certainly *not* any kind of under-the-table deal with anybody. As it has been often stated, the graders do not know who the submitter is and grades every book as if it is the first time they have seen it. This also has nothing to do with which graders saw the book. Quite simply, when it comes to checking for restoration, some books are *obviously* restored (or trimmed) and some are obviously not. There are a few books, though, where the restoration can be extremely subtle and require extra scrutiny. If nothing sends up a "red flag" for the particular graders on a book, it can, unfortunately (but rarely), get by us.

 

Like others have said in this thread, and we have stated ourselves, we are not perfect. But the team of graders we have here are, bar none, the best in the business. In grading nearly 3 million books, we have admittedly made errors. But when an error is brought to our attention we fix whatever the problem is. We strive to "make it right" for the owner so that everyone comes away satisfied.

 

Right now we are in the process of purchasing the JIM #83 from the new owner in order to remove it from the market.

 

We obviously take great pride in the confidence that people have in CGC, we appreciate their trust, and are always trying to improve our company in every way, from restoration detection, to turnaround times, to our holder, and more.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

 

Without reading the next 100 pages of responses and helping sway my decision, my first initial reaction to this is good job for addressing it, but I don't see how the process of buying a book to take it off the market helps anything. The real problem lies in the fact that trimming cannot be detected 100% of the time so what are you going to do to address that issue going forward

 

Some suggestions: How about taking trimming away from getting a purple lablel and just making it a note on a blue label? How about making graders notes FREE for books with resto at least? How about including proof of your findings for the owners of the book with trimmed/resto books with pictures FREE of charge. How about if you buy a CGC membership you get some of the above included free with membership?

 

I can understand mistakes being made, but what just happened with the JIM 83 is a real eye opener for a lot of people on these boards (people who really drive the CGC market). CGC needs to start being held accountable better with restoration detection from this debacle that just happened.