EBAY: BLOCKED USER LIST 54 54

[RockMyAmadeus]

It is all about how you talk to people, as Kav and Darjis_Aaron, have said.

 

You folks are wrong, CAK, because you simply do not understand eBay or how it operates, but you imagine your limited encounters with them has given you some insight. Long, bitter experience with this company over two decades says otherwise. Do you think I haven't tried every tactic in the book with this corrupt-to-the-core company? Do you think I haven't asked, begged, charmed, persuaded, conspired, cajoled, threatened, yelled at, argued with, pleaded with, cried to, and done everything else under the sun to convince people in a country 8,000 miles away to do what is right? I have, all of that, and more.

 

My God, if only it were as easy as just "knowing how to talk to people"! I'd spend 5 minutes on the phone sweet-talking some nice Filipino CS rep, and that would be that. Problem solved!

 

 

But by all means, believe what you wish and I hope, for your sake, you never run into the corporate facelessness that is eBay with a real problem. Further discussion is fruitless.

 

As for the rest of your advice....I truly don't know whether to or ....or both.

 

It's impossible to take you seriously, CAK. Truly.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I got a neg as a seller,a couple months back, under similiar circumstances.Buyer paid after auction, I refunded his payment immediately and cancelled the transaction.Buyer negged me.

 

Oh, and by the way...this little gem, here, was immortalized in another thread. You DESERVED that negative, because you cancelled a legitimate sale because (as you stated) the price was too low AND you then created a thread asking how to get GPA to remove it from its record.

 

If you got that negative removed, you did it with subterfuge, or found somebody who didn't know what they were doing and got lucky.

 

Which, by the way, is an example of the corruption and ineptitude of eBay, as I have said. "Lying" and/or "hoping to get someone who doesn't know what they are doing" is not valid advice.

[RockMyAmadeus]

RMA is correct-- it is impossible.

 

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it took a herculean effort and it still may not work. I said it was not at all about "knowing how to talk to people."

[RockMyAmadeus]

project-rebirth

 

I searched the thread and he has been nominated for this list before. I sold a Moon Girl #5 replica to him on eBay. He hit the BIN. Over Easter he sent me three messages, all saying:

 

"Hi,

 

I received the replica copy of Moon Girl No.5 today.

 

There is a circular scratch mark to the left of the word "Moon" in the title.

 

I can feel the scratch mark with my finger. It is a defect.

 

This circular mark is not in the picture of the replica.

 

I want to return this damaged copy.

 

Please contact me.

 

Robert"

 

No problem. The three messages were a little overkill, but otherwise all is fine. I responded with:

 

"You can send it back. My return address is:

 

XXXXX

 

I'll send another copy."

 

He responded with:

 

"Hi Joe,

 

I mailed the Moon Girl book back to you today.

 

The tracking number is 9500 xxx xxx xxxx

 

Please send me the replacement copy and please check the condition.

 

Thanks,

 

Robert"

 

Again, a reasonable response. Then, the next message out of the blue is:

 

"THE BOOK IS ON ITS WAY BACK TO YOU.

 

I HAVE DECIDED THAT I DO NOT WANT ANOTHER COPY I WANT A REFUND.

 

IF YOU COULDN'T DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH YOU WITH YOU PEOPLE.

 

I AM OPENING UP A COMPLAINT/BUYER PROTECTION CASE WITH EBAY THIS AFTERNOON.

 

I AM ALSO CONTACTING PAYPAL AND MY CREDIT CARD COMPANY TO REPORT THIS TRANSACTION.

 

I WANT A FULL REFUND INCLUDING MY SHIPPING."

 

Over two days, I get a total of 5 such messages threatening eBay, Paypal and credit card complaints. The book has been refunded and the bidder blocked.

 

 

Yay! Spastics on eBay!

 

[kav]

asked, begged, charmed, persuaded, conspired, cajoled, threatened, yelled at, argued with, pleaded with, cried to

 

None of these are the strategies I employ-not even close.

[kav]

One example: one time I was shipping out some artwork. Later at home I realized I had forgotten to include the main piece I wanted to send.

I went back to the post office and explained and asked if he could find my parcel so I could put the piece in. He said that would be impossible due to the large volume they get. Now-instead of saying 'can you at least try?' I said 'Oh well-I figured it was a long shot'. Then the sad look as i gathered up my stuff. He said 'wait a minute' and went in back. A minute later he returned with my parcel and said 'It was right on top!'.

Now I am not saying this is a formula. It was a matter of reading his language cues and using mental aikido to get him to do what I wanted.

[01TheDude]

These are not the droids you want.....

 

Kav

[thecopperagekids]

 

I got a neg as a seller,a couple months back, under similiar circumstances.Buyer paid after auction, I refunded his payment immediately and cancelled the transaction.Buyer negged me.

 

Oh, and by the way...this little gem, here, was immortalized in another thread. You DESERVED that negative, because you cancelled a legitimate sale because (as you stated) the price was too low AND you then created a thread asking how to get GPA to remove it from its record.

 

If you got that negative removed, you did it with subterfuge, or found somebody who didn't know what they were doing and got lucky.

 

Which, by the way, is an example of the corruption and ineptitude of eBay, as I have said. "Lying" and/or "hoping to get someone who doesn't know what they are doing" is not valid advice.

 

Yeah, I pretty much expected you would feel compelled to say something like I deserved that negative feedback.Still, I posted up my anecdote, trying to help you out, being pretty sure that you would take a stab at me, regardless.

 

Cheers for coming through on that assumption of mine, in return

 

...and cough, cough...I did in fact refund the buyer and SHIPPED/GAVE* that 9.8 newsstand CGC slab to another boardie, instead of TAKING MONEY for the book and shipping it off to to the overseas eBay buyer.

 

*Who in turn made an honorable donation of $550 to charity, which s a board agreement...it was not reflected in GPA.

 

I also must have been a liar/cheatful/otherwise not on the level somehow to auction off a CGC 9.6 newsstand copy....which ended at $110, with 100% of proceeds of that sale going to charity.

 

That $110 winning bid on the CGC 9.6 newsstand was $15 short of the previous sale at $125 (within a few days prior, IIRC) sale of the same book in CGC 9.6, shown in GPA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thecopperagekids]

asked, begged, charmed, persuaded, conspired, cajoled, threatened, yelled at, argued with, pleaded with, cried to

 

None of these are the strategies I employ-not even close.

 

Same here, Kav.

[thecopperagekids]

It is all about how you talk to people, as Kav and Darjis_Aaron, have said.

 

You folks are wrong, CAK, because you simply do not understand eBay or how it operates, but you imagine your limited encounters with them has given you some insight. Long, bitter experience with this company over two decades says otherwise. Do you think I haven't tried every tactic in the book with this corrupt-to-the-core company? Do you think I haven't asked, begged, charmed, persuaded, conspired, cajoled, threatened, yelled at, argued with, pleaded with, cried to, and done everything else under the sun to convince people in a country 8,000 miles away to do what is right? I have, all of that, and more.

 

My God, if only it were as easy as just "knowing how to talk to people"! I'd spend 5 minutes on the phone sweet-talking some nice Filipino CS rep, and that would be that. Problem solved!

 

 

But by all means, believe what you wish and I hope, for your sake, you never run into the corporate facelessness that is eBay with a real problem. Further discussion is fruitless.

 

As for the rest of your advice....I truly don't know whether to or ....or both.

 

It's impossible to take you seriously, CAK. Truly.

 

Did I say it would only take a 5 minute phone call to resolve your negative feedback?

 

Nope, not even close.

 

As far as your vast amount of experience and assuming I have much less.Wrong again.

 

Just like it is wrong to say the likes of: " It is impossible to take uou seriously. CAK."

 

You know nothing about me, other than what you assume, via this forum.

 

Keep on shaking your head as long as you want.That is why you will not get that negative feedback removed.

 

You resign yourself to that predictiment, by once again *assuming* that you cannot reason with people....or in your words, "the faceless corporation that is eBay".

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

asked, begged, charmed, persuaded, conspired, cajoled, threatened, yelled at, argued with, pleaded with, cried to

 

None of these are the strategies I employ-not even close.

 

....and more. I'm sure you sweetly told someone "hi, my name's Kav, and I'm just in an awful pickle. I just don't understand how this happened, and I don't know who to turn to who can help me out. See, this is causing me anxiety something fierce, and my five children may not be able to eat tonight if I don't get this negative feedback removed. Do you think you'd be able to help me, Mr./Mrs. Wonderful Customer Service Rep?", thick as honey, and twice as sweet...?

 

If you think you understand eBay, and that you can just call up and have negatives removed because you play a game with them...oh, let's not call it what it really is, a game, and let's use your terminology: "wounded bird"...you don't understand eBay.

 

It's really as simple as that.

 

But, you know best.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Did I say it would only take a 5 minute phone call to resolve your negative feedback?

 

Nope, not even close.

 

You really need to pay attention to what is said, CAK, and not what you think is said.

 

I said "My God, if only it were as easy as just "knowing how to talk to people"! I'd spend 5 minutes on the phone sweet-talking some nice Filipino CS rep, and that would be that."...in other words, if it was JUST about "knowing how to talk to people", it would take ME 5 minutes and that would be that. No one said YOU said it would only take "a 5 minute phone call."

 

Reading is fundamental.

 

The issue here is that "knowing how to talk to people", while certainly an important part of conflict resolution, isn't relevant when dealing with eBay's feedback department. You're dealing with people who 1. have no interest whatsoever in helping you...none...and 2. do not HAVE to help you.

 

Their sole and only goal is to make you hang up. That's it. They are there to be brick walls, to shield eBay from actually having to deal with whatever problem you might have, or, in eBay's opinion, what you might think you have.

 

I think it's pretty clear that you're not aware of how eBay and Paypal have operated, and what governs their corporate mentality.

 

Are you aware that eBay has been taken to federal court and SUED...successfully, I might add...because they effectively shielded themselves from customer service complaints for years? For years, you could not even contact eBay directly...there was no way to talk to a live human being until around 2004. Did you know that...? You could only e-mail them, and then they chose whether or not they would respond...and most of the time, they ignored you.

 

Why do you think all the changes that favor buyers came into being? eBay's savvy business sense? Their good will?

 

No. It came about because eBay was forced to make these changes because buyers were tired of being defrauded through eBay, and took their cases to court.

 

As far as your vast amount of experience and assuming I have much less.Wrong again.

 

I don't need to assume you have less. What you say, and the way you say it, demonstrates that. No assumption needed.

 

Just like it is wrong to say the likes of: " It is impossible to take uou seriously. CAK."

 

You know nothing about me, other than what you assume, via this forum.

 

That is the common claim of those who don't like being called out. "You don't know me!" On the contrary...anyone can learn quite a bit about you, simply by reading what you post. Do you think that's a skill people don't have, or can't develop? My words are me, they express what I think, and perhaps more importantly, how I think. They paint a pretty clear picture of who I am as a person, as does everyone's...even those pretending to be something they are not.

 

The same goes for everybody. I don't need to "assume" anything about you....the body of your posts says a tremendous amount about you.

 

That you think it doesn't, by the way, is another indicator of your lack of general experience. Your words say things you aren't even aware they say.

 

Keep on shaking your head as long as you want.That is why you will not get that negative feedback removed.

 

You resign yourself to that predictiment, by once again *assuming* that you cannot reason with people....or in your words, "the faceless corporation that is eBay".

 

Your posts make my hair hurt.

 

You have an unrealistic view of life, CAK, and on top of that, you don't comprehend what people are saying...yet speak all the same. That's a problem, and a very big one.

 

Suffice it to say: no one said anything about "resigning" to anything, and no one said anything about not being able to "reason" with people. You fundamentally don't understand the issue, and I've explained it already many times. You think you have it all figured out, and it's obviously just a matter of "gosh, if that RMA would just stop being so negative and just TRY, it would be resolved in a jiff!"

 

...but you use subterfuge to get what you want, which is cheating. Anyone can cheat their way through life...like asking how to remove a sale from GPA because you didn't like the price it got, and you refused to sell it to the high bidder...who then left you a deserved feedback which you then managed to convince someone, contrary to their own policy, to remove.

 

You cheat, CAK, and you presume to give advice about "reasoning" with people...? You advise people to be stoned and drunk before talking to customer service, and you presume to give advice about "not giving up"...?

 

 

You and Kav...you are two of a kind.

 

"Just use a Jedi mind trick on them, and that will work!"

 

I forgot to pay my Jedi Academy dues, and some dude named "Annie" was causing trouble down at the temple, last I heard....

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I got a neg as a seller,a couple months back, under similiar circumstances.Buyer paid after auction, I refunded his payment immediately and cancelled the transaction.Buyer negged me.

 

Oh, and by the way...this little gem, here, was immortalized in another thread. You DESERVED that negative, because you cancelled a legitimate sale because (as you stated) the price was too low AND you then created a thread asking how to get GPA to remove it from its record.

 

If you got that negative removed, you did it with subterfuge, or found somebody who didn't know what they were doing and got lucky.

 

Which, by the way, is an example of the corruption and ineptitude of eBay, as I have said. "Lying" and/or "hoping to get someone who doesn't know what they are doing" is not valid advice.

 

Yeah, I pretty much expected you would feel compelled to say something like I deserved that negative feedback.Still, I posted up my anecdote, trying to help you out, being pretty sure that you would take a stab at me, regardless.

 

There was no stab, CAK. You're presuming to offer bad advice to people, and you won't quit.

 

Cheers for coming through on that assumption of mine, in return

 

...and cough, cough...I did in fact refund the buyer and SHIPPED/GAVE* that 9.8 newsstand CGC slab to another boardie, instead of TAKING MONEY for the book and shipping it off to to the overseas eBay buyer.

 

*Who in turn made an honorable donation of $550 to charity, which s a board agreement...it was not reflected in GPA.

 

None of which changes the fact that you cheated your buyer out of a legitimate win, and tried to cover that up by "donating" to charity.

 

"cough, cough."

 

I also must have been a liar/cheatful/otherwise not on the level somehow to auction off a CGC 9.6 newsstand copy....which ended at $110, with 100% of proceeds of that sale going to charity.

 

That $110 winning bid on the CGC 9.6 newsstand was $15 short of the previous sale at $125 (within a few days prior, IIRC) sale of the same book in CGC 9.6, shown in GPA.

 

People who do "good deeds" don't need to tell everyone about it. Their actions speak for them. And "good deeds" don't make up for bad ones.

[Buzzetta]

I have started to find that being a tad bit belligerent gets things done when it comes to eBay while being all out polite gets me places with PayPal

 

 

At least that has been my experience

[Doohickamabob]

One example: one time I was shipping out some artwork. Later at home I realized I had forgotten to include the main piece I wanted to send.

I went back to the post office and explained and asked if he could find my parcel so I could put the piece in. He said that would be impossible due to the large volume they get. Now-instead of saying 'can you at least try?' I said 'Oh well-I figured it was a long shot'. Then the sad look as i gathered up my stuff. He said 'wait a minute' and went in back. A minute later he returned with my parcel and said 'It was right on top!'.

The Kav Method -- it will bring a tear to your eye, and put a song in your heart.

 

[MetalPSI]

One example: one time I was shipping out some artwork. Later at home I realized I had forgotten to include the main piece I wanted to send.

I went back to the post office and explained and asked if he could find my parcel so I could put the piece in. He said that would be impossible due to the large volume they get. Now-instead of saying 'can you at least try?' I said 'Oh well-I figured it was a long shot'. Then the sad look as i gathered up my stuff. He said 'wait a minute' and went in back. A minute later he returned with my parcel and said 'It was right on top!'.

The Kav Method -- it will bring a tear to your eye, and put a song in your heart.

 

 

kavs school of method acting is soon to follow

[kav]

The key is to present the problem in a manner that you think it probably can't be solved but heck you figured you'd give it a shot. Acting nervous or scared helps.

Chit chat a bit this makes them see you as a person.

Never ask or demand-make it their idea. That way they get to feel like a hero and they don't get bossed around like everyone else tries to do to them all day.

Like them. People can sense whether you actually like them or are just pretending. Or outright dont like them as probably 50% (at least) of all their interactions demonstrate.

I watched a show once on outsourcing. The first day of training in India the trainer wrote on the board "30 = 13". He then explained that the average 30 year old American acts like a 13 year old Indian.

 

All I can do is say what works for me. It works. It works amazingly. It works pretty much every time. I pretty much get what I want EVERY time I call ebay. I love those guys. Thy are top notch in my book.

If it frustrates anyone that I'm saying this because their experience is way different, there is nothing I can do about that. I can get people to help me, I have been unable to get people to help themselves.

Argue for your limitations and they are yours.

RMA I don't understand the anger. Well I do but I'm just saying. I haven't been insulting-all I have done is relay an experience that is different from yours. Trying to help. If you think I'm lying ok that's one thing. But to respond with increasing ire tells me there is something more going on here than a desire to get ebay to help you when you call. You want to be RIGHT. That's more important than possibly changing your world view and accepting new data.

Ebay helps me when I call. They do not seem faceless or to be reading from a -script. They do not transfer me around unless I am reporting a fraud.

This is my experience.

 

 

[Shark]

These are not the droids you want.....

 

Kav

 

[StuporMan]

We're still talking about eBay, right?

[Doohickamabob]

It sounds like the shorter version of what you're saying is, "Don't be an arrogant, pushy type, but instead be a gracious, polite type who treats the customer-service person as a human being and communicates with them as an equal," etc. The only part I disagree with is you turning it into its own form of act or role, calling it the wounded-bird method, as opposed to what I'd call it: The being a reasonable guy method.

 

My experience has been similar to yours, though unlike you, I can't say that it always works. But it works more often than not, and definitely works more than the pushy-guy method. With eBay, it especially helps if you start off from a position of having already done due diligence in terms of following eBay policies, documenting things, and having taken the high road in eBay's messaging system. Then you've got the back-up substance so when the customer-service rep checks your story, they can see you're not playing them or bending the facts, etc.

 

Removal of negative feedback is like a get-out-of-jail card that you can only use occasionally. I was able to remove a neg from a buyer who didn't communicate or do anything to follow eBay policy. I also was able to remove a neutral given by a buyer who was belligerent, in a situation where I had been on the phone with eBay trying to follow policy well before that buyer even came along -- so there was a paper trail (electronic trail, whatever) to go with my side of the story. Having more than 16 years (going on 17) of positive eBay transactions undoubtedly helps my cause.

 

I've never raised my voice, gotten sarcastic, been snotty, taken on a harsh tone, or otherwise tried to browbeat, belittle or pressure a customer-service rep into doing what I want. I've expressed inward frustration (perhaps that's the "wounded bird act") but I figure the customer-service rep has a crummy job as it is, and if I'm adding stress to his/her shift, as opposed to giving him/her the opportunity to feel like he did a good job by making somebody happy, then that minimizes my chances of getting a desirable outcome.

 

When the outcome isn't so desirable, the only thing that works is polite persistence. Raising one's voice, getting rude, getting sarcastic, etc. are futile. Being persistent -- but staying polite the whole time -- can often work out. The rep still won't think you're an (at least not much), but they will want to get you off the phone to lower their call time, so they'll have the maximum incentive to work with you.

 

I used to work in a customer-service call center for AOL, back in the mid-1990s when AOL was on the rise. I know what it's lke to be on the receiving end of somebody losing their cool. It never, ever got a better result from me than was already available if the person was calm and polite. The customer-service person is very low on the totem pole and has a limited amount of power. They almost always have absolutely no say or responsibility for the forces that set any bad situation in motion, so directing negative emotions at them in any way -- other than as non-accusatory, impersonal expressions of your own feelings -- is pointless. (On the other hand, telemarketers are the scum of the earth, as they willingly took a job knowing they'd be pestering and trying to manipulate people.)

 

As for Rock Me Amadeus's situation, my observations from his initial post were that it sounds like he was following eBay policy very closely and taking the high road in communication. It definitely sounds like something where he could get the negative feedback removed -- in ideal circumstances, at least.