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EBAY: BLOCKED USER LIST
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Started by HarveySwick,

8,602 posts in this topic

slym2none

slym2none

Posted
Posted
It sounds like the shorter version of what you're saying is, "Don't be an arrogant, pushy type, but instead be a gracious, polite type who treats the customer-service person as a human being and communicates with them as an equal," etc. The only part I disagree with is you turning it into its own form of act or role, calling it the wounded-bird method, as opposed to what I'd call it: The being a reasonable guy method.

 

My experience has been similar to yours, though unlike you, I can't say that it always works. But it works more often than not, and definitely works more than the pushy-guy method. With eBay, it especially helps if you start off from a position of having already done due diligence in terms of following eBay policies, documenting things, and having taken the high road in eBay's messaging system. Then you've got the back-up substance so when the customer-service rep checks your story, they can see you're not playing them or bending the facts, etc.

 

Removal of negative feedback is like a get-out-of-jail card that you can only use occasionally. I was able to remove a neg from a buyer who didn't communicate or do anything to follow eBay policy. I also was able to remove a neutral given by a buyer who was belligerent, in a situation where I had been on the phone with eBay trying to follow policy well before that buyer even came along -- so there was a paper trail (electronic trail, whatever) to go with my side of the story. Having more than 16 years (going on 17) of positive eBay transactions undoubtedly helps my cause.

 

I've never raised my voice, gotten sarcastic, been snotty, taken on a harsh tone, or otherwise tried to browbeat, belittle or pressure a customer-service rep into doing what I want. I've expressed inward frustration (perhaps that's the "wounded bird act") but I figure the customer-service rep has a crummy job as it is, and if I'm adding stress to his/her shift, as opposed to giving him/her the opportunity to feel like he did a good job by making somebody happy, then that minimizes my chances of getting a desirable outcome.

 

When the outcome isn't so desirable, the only thing that works is polite persistence. Raising one's voice, getting rude, getting sarcastic, etc. are futile. Being persistent -- but staying polite the whole time -- can often work out. The rep still won't think you're an (at least not much), but they will want to get you off the phone to lower their call time, so they'll have the maximum incentive to work with you.

 

I used to work in a customer-service call center for AOL, back in the mid-1990s when AOL was on the rise. I know what it's lke to be on the receiving end of somebody losing their cool. It never, ever got a better result from me than was already available if the person was calm and polite. The customer-service person is very low on the totem pole and has a limited amount of power. They almost always have absolutely no power or responsibility for the forces that set any bad situation in motion, so directing negative emotions at them in any way -- other than as non-accusatory, impersonal expressions of your own feelings -- is pointless. (On the other hand, telemarketers are the scum of the earth, as they willingly took a job knowing they'd be pestering and trying to manipulate people.)

 

As for Rock Me Amadeus's situation, my observations from his initial post were that it sounds like he was following eBay policy very closely and taking the high road in communication. It definitely sounds like something where he could get the negative feedback removed -- in ideal circumstances, at least.

 

:applause:

 

I'll take open & honest over disingenuous any day.

 

 

 

-slym

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
The key is to present the problem in a manner that you think it probably can't be solved but heck you figured you'd give it a shot. Acting nervous or scared helps.

 

meh

 

Chit chat a bit this makes them see you as a person.

Never ask or demand-make it their idea. That way they get to feel like a hero and they don't get bossed around like everyone else tries to do to them all day.

Like them. People can sense whether you actually like them or are just pretending. Or outright dont like them as probably 50% (at least) of all their interactions demonstrate.

I watched a show once on outsourcing. The first day of training in India the trainer wrote on the board "30 = 13". He then explained that the average 30 year old American acts like a 13 year old Indian.

 

All I can do is say what works for me. It works. It works amazingly. It works pretty much every time.

 

"60% of the time, it works every time."

 

I pretty much get what I want EVERY time I call ebay.

 

Why haven't you asked eBay to turn the corporation over to you? If you get what you want EVERY time you call them, why have you set your sights so low...? Ask for the company, they're going to give it to you.

 

I can see it now: "kavBay"

 

:idea:

 

I love those guys. Thy are top notch in my book.

 

Yes, and that really highlights the issue, right...? You are virtually surrounded by threads filled with people sharing their bad experiences with eBay and those who trade through it...but for you, they are "top notch."

 

Are all those people just victims of their own inability to "say the right thing, in the right way"...?

 

Common sense says not a chance. Kav says yes.

 

So who's right...?

 

For you, this has nothing to do with the issue, but simply how one approaches it, thinking that there can't POSSIBLY be people in the world who are told and trained to say "no", regardless of how they are approached, that literally anything is possible if you just say the magic words and make people feel good about themselves.

 

Why, then, aren't you president of the United States...? And why stop there? Why aren't you the king of the world?

 

hm

 

If it frustrates anyone that I'm saying this because their experience is way different, there is nothing I can do about that. I can get people to help me, I have been unable to get people to help themselves.

 

No one is frustrated that you're saying this. People are frustrated by the unreality you and CAK live in that says "if you just say the right words in the right way, you can get anyone to do anything you want! And if you can't, it's obviously because you don't know how to talk to people!"

 

That's not reality.

 

Argue for your limitations and they are yours.

RMA I don't understand the anger.

 

You don't understand it, because it isn't there. You read into what you're reading. Like many, you see straightforward, no mincing words, and think "anger." You're not the first, and won't be the last.

 

I'm not angry, not in the slightest. I am trying to reason with you...but when you give bad advice, about a situation you are demonstrating with your posts that you don't understand, you're going to get pushback.

 

I don't know how to explain it to you any more clearly than I have. I have dealt with the eBay feedback department for dozens, if not hundreds, of hours over the years. I have gone as high as it is possible to go, as high as those departments will let me go. I have had...American, mind you...the vice president for "Seller and retail relations" call me. I have been successful...occasionally. I have also been unsuccessful.

 

So I will just say this, as plainly as I can: dealing with the eBay feedback department has nothing whatsoever to do with one's approach.

 

Let me say that one more time: dealing with the eBay feedback department has nothing whatsoever to do with one's approach.

 

If you think I've only talked to them the way I post here, in a straightforward, no nonsense manner, you would be mistaken. If you think I haven't tried the "gosh, might you please help me out, sir? (cue slight quiver in voice)", you would be mistaken.

 

If you can't accept that as a premise, everything that follows will be futile.

 

Well I do but I'm just saying. I haven't been insulting-all I have done is relay an experience that is different from yours. Trying to help. If you think I'm lying ok that's one thing. But to respond with increasing ire tells me there is something more going on here than a desire to get ebay to help you when you call. You want to be RIGHT. That's more important than possibly changing your world view and accepting new data.

Ebay helps me when I call. They do not seem faceless or to be reading from a -script. They do not transfer me around unless I am reporting a fraud.

This is my experience.

 

 

Oh please, kav. You want to be RIGHT just as much as you claim I do, or you would stop trying to give advice to someone who clearly isn't looking for it from you. You would say "well, nevermind then, I guess he's not interested in my help." But you're still trying to convince me, and perhaps others, that if people would just listen to what you're saying, all would be right with the world, so let's not be disingenuous. eBay helps ME when I call...when it's an issue they have the authority and ability to help me with.

 

I suspect the reality is that how you define "help" is different from mine, or perhaps other people.

 

Here's a great example. In the situation with "nostalgiawon" I shared, I called in to see if there was something a bit more than cancelling the order, because I wanted to report that this eBay user was trying to defraud eBay out of their rightly earned fees, and I wanted THEM to file the cancellation for me. The Filipino lady I spoke to was very nice, and we had a nice, pleasant conversation...and then she explained, step by step, how to cancel a transaction through the eBay website.

 

Now, if you did NOT know how to do that, then yes, I suspect you would find that very helpful indeed.

 

But, since I already knew how to do that, taking me step by step through a process through the website wasn't helpful at all.

 

Do you see the perspective difference here, Kav...?

 

There's a considerable difference between casual eBay users, and people who use eBay all day, every day. I'm in the latter camp, and make it my business to know as much about the company and its policies and procedures as I can. So, what may be wonderfully helpful to you, isn't to me. Not because anyone is being UNhelpful, but because it's simply something I'm already aware of, and I'm asking them to do it a different way.

 

I suspect, if we knew all the details, we'd find out that even you, Kav, have run into problems in life in which "saying the right things", no matter how you define that, didn't work.

 

Sure, it works a lot, maybe even most, of the time. And everyone's first reaction should always be with patient understanding and a willingness to listen. But it doesn't work all of the time, as common sense and experience demonstrates.

 

That's not reality.

 

 

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MetalPSI

MetalPSI

Posted
Posted
Thanks RMA.

 

For what? Providing a sleep aid...?

 

:D

 

For speaking to Kav in a language he can understand so that maybe he will stop and consider future posts.

 

I tried and failed, you have a grasp of vocabulary and logic I really envy

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01TheDude

01TheDude

Posted
Posted

To summarize, in pictures... for humor and not intended to get RMA to write me a fresh diatribe

Kav's method:

 

1 part wounded bird:

wounded_bird.gif

 

1 Part Jedi mind trick:

droids.gif

 

Buzzetta's current method:

Angry Bird with eBay!

characters-red.png

 

Lovey Dovey with PayPal

love-doves-turtle-doves.jpg

 

 

 

CAK's method:

pack of ciggies, six pack a beer, and a whole lot of smoozing

Sleaze-300x174.jpg

 

RMA's method:

 

white-flag-240x242.jpg

 

 

 

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UltraMaximus

UltraMaximus

Posted
Posted

New Adds to my list

 

everest_collector : First off, he opens up with a message asking if a book has been pressed and tells me how he is going to return it if the staples were sunk in from pressing. I advise him to not buy my book then, since I cannot confirm the staple depth of his liking prior to the sale, and that I do not accept returns after only one time taking a switched out book return from a bad buyer. Then I get a message low ball offer on the same book I am NOT taking offers on, and low-balls other books I am taking BO's for a "package deal". Didn't get the hint...and once I asked if his FL address was "paypal confirmed" before doing any business with him, he vanishes. Save yourselves the trouble.

 

redxjohn: Best Offer was more than 66% off of asking price, and automatically declined. Sent me a message immediately asking to make a deal with a post about a bunch of other books he had and I couldn't make out wtf he wanted because he never asked or stated what he did. After a few messages he still wouldn't tell me wtf he wanted to do, just wanted to waste my time I guess. So once again, save yourselves the time.

 

 

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fastballspecial

fastballspecial

Posted
Posted
project-rebirth

 

I searched the thread and he has been nominated for this list before. I sold a Moon Girl #5 replica to him on eBay. He hit the BIN. Over Easter he sent me three messages, all saying:

 

"Hi,

 

I received the replica copy of Moon Girl No.5 today.

 

There is a circular scratch mark to the left of the word "Moon" in the title.

 

I can feel the scratch mark with my finger. It is a defect.

 

This circular mark is not in the picture of the replica.

 

I want to return this damaged copy.

 

Please contact me.

 

Robert"

 

No problem. The three messages were a little overkill, but otherwise all is fine. I responded with:

 

"You can send it back. My return address is:

 

XXXXX

 

I'll send another copy."

 

He responded with:

 

"Hi Joe,

 

I mailed the Moon Girl book back to you today.

 

The tracking number is 9500 xxx xxx xxxx

 

Please send me the replacement copy and please check the condition.

 

Thanks,

 

Robert"

 

Again, a reasonable response. Then, the next message out of the blue is:

 

"THE BOOK IS ON ITS WAY BACK TO YOU.

 

I HAVE DECIDED THAT I DO NOT WANT ANOTHER COPY I WANT A REFUND.

 

IF YOU COULDN'T DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH YOU WITH YOU PEOPLE.

 

I AM OPENING UP A COMPLAINT/BUYER PROTECTION CASE WITH EBAY THIS AFTERNOON.

 

I AM ALSO CONTACTING PAYPAL AND MY CREDIT CARD COMPANY TO REPORT THIS TRANSACTION.

 

I WANT A FULL REFUND INCLUDING MY SHIPPING."

 

Over two days, I get a total of 5 such messages threatening eBay, Paypal and credit card complaints. The book has been refunded and the bidder blocked.

 

 

I had one of those last year. I couldn't block them fast enough.

 

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted (edited)
The key is to present the problem in a manner that you think it probably can't be solved but heck you figured you'd give it a shot. Acting nervous or scared helps.

Chit chat a bit this makes them see you as a person.

Never ask or demand-make it their idea. That way they get to feel like a hero and they don't get bossed around like everyone else tries to do to them all day.

Like them. People can sense whether you actually like them or are just pretending. Or outright dont like them as probably 50% (at least) of all their interactions demonstrate.

I watched a show once on outsourcing. The first day of training in India the trainer wrote on the board "30 = 13". He then explained that the average 30 year old American acts like a 13 year old Indian.

 

All I can do is say what works for me. It works. It works amazingly. It works pretty much every time. I pretty much get what I want EVERY time I call ebay. I love those guys. Thy are top notch in my book.

If it frustrates anyone that I'm saying this because their experience is way different, there is nothing I can do about that. I can get people to help me, I have been unable to get people to help themselves.

Argue for your limitations and they are yours.

RMA I don't understand the anger. Well I do but I'm just saying. I haven't been insulting-all I have done is relay an experience that is different from yours. Trying to help. If you think I'm lying ok that's one thing. But to respond with increasing ire tells me there is something more going on here than a desire to get ebay to help you when you call. You want to be RIGHT. That's more important than possibly changing your world view and accepting new data.

Ebay helps me when I call. They do not seem faceless or to be reading from a -script. They do not transfer me around unless I am reporting a fraud.

This is my experience.

 

 

Again... I am kind and very nice to paypal... they have a different directive of CS prompts and directives it seems than paypal.

 

Lately I seem to get a LOT more done being a to deal with if I meet corporate run around or major resistance when it comes to eBay.

 

A couple of months ago they would not transfer me to a supervisor. The CSR I had must have though that they were partaking in jackassery on the Jackassery Jamboree. I asked if they could hold on so I put my headset on. Then I began loudly clicking keys. I asked the guy by name if they could hear that clicking and banging. He said yes but what did that have to do with anything. I said check my listings. That's me taking them down and listing things on Amazon and on a Comic Book Message board.

 

We had further words... he screamed and hung up on me. I called back. Told them to check the log of CSR who was working with me.

 

We got the sitch-ee-ashun... all sorted out after that AND I got a eBay GC for my trouble.

 

 

Edited by Buzzetta
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kav

kav

Posted
Posted

RMA there's a flaw in your argument. And that is the is the existence of phone hackers who use social engineering. You can get different results depending on the approach. There's a whole subculture devoted to this. And they do stuff like get into NORAD. I am not President or CEO because I have no interest in that. Any job I had where I was offered a supervisory position I declined. Also having a skill that gets phone reps to do what you want the one time you call them is different from running for President and having to fight others for the job. I assumed you were mad because you became insulting. People usually don't insult others unless they are angry at some level. If someone does insult when they aren't even mad that's baffling to me. I can see how you would think that I want to be 'right'. But really I have this annoying trait of wanting to help people even when they don't really want help. It's caused people to get annoyed with me many times. "Look all you have to do is' "THAT WON'T WORK BECAUSE". Not saying it applies to you but some people hold on dearly to their problems. Trying to 'help' them is not really helping them. THEY ENJOY HAVING AN INSOLUBLE PROBLEM.

I used to tutor math in college. This one angry dude came in. He had a problem that no one in the math lab could solve. The teacher couldn't explain it. He was smug in that he had been assigned problems that were insoluble and spent a lot of time ranting about it. After a bit I figured out the problem and showed him how to solve it. He slammed the book down, cursed and left.

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