Comic Book Investing

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

I know, I know.

 

[Jaydogrules]

 

 

I know, I know.

 

 

I think it is evident that the waving guy means that I am someone who has.

 

-J.

[rjrjr]

What are you in the went up 44% last year?

 

Most of my 401K(s) are S&P 500 index funds. The market was up quite a lot last year. I think the S&P 500 was up over 30% last year. Remember, 44% is gains plus contributions, not just gains.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

I know, I know.

 

 

I think it is evident that the waving guy means that I am someone who has.

 

-J.

I'll try it again....

 

AND....?

 

You said:

 

Either way, there have been plenty of posters that have come on here with real life experience that have directly refuted your claims

 

BESIDES you and DEALERS, who....?

 

 

[bronze_rules]

What are you in the went up 44% last year?

 

Most of my 401K(s) are S&P 500 index funds. The market was up quite a lot last year. I think the S&P 500 was up over 30% last year.

 

From 30% to 44% is a HUGE incremental jump. Could you divulge a little bit more about your portfolio selection and timing? With the type of returns you've been averaging (unleveredged), you should really try to manage a fund-- as you are up there with the world's best money managers. About the only negative is the volatility.

[rjrjr]

 

So, in the interest of getting this thread back on track (of which I will take my share of the blame), what are the comics that are sure bets for the next 20 years? Anyone care to share?

[rjrjr]

What are you in the went up 44% last year?

 

Most of my 401K(s) are S&P 500 index funds. The market was up quite a lot last year. I think the S&P 500 was up over 30% last year.

 

From 30% to 44% is a HUGE incremental jump. Could you divulge a little bit more about your portfolio selection and timing? With the type of returns you've been averaging, you should really try to manage a fund-- as you are up there with the world's best money managers.

 

Remember, the 44% includes the gains and the contributions. I was attempting to avoid real numbers, but the max contribution was $17,500 last year. Multiply that by 2, add in company match, and you will understand where the other portion of the value came from. I'm not invested in anything terrific, trust me. I wish.

[lou_fine]

Let's say Earth 2 rjrjr invested in comics rather than his 401k and retired with 1.5-2 million instead of 3-4 million. Would that then be considered a poor investment? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say, but I think doubling or tripling or quadrupling your original investment is an extremely successful end result.

 

 

From reading a lot of the postings here since last night, I am starting to think that many of the posters here believe that comic investing means funding your retirement entirely based only upon the proceeds from your comic book collection, exclusive of any other investment assets.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth as this line of thinking makes absolutely no sense at all. From my point of view, retirement funding means deriving income from various sources such as your company pension plan, your government pension plan, your own personal registered savings plans (ie. RRSP's, TFSA's, 401K's, etc), your secondary real estate holdings, your own personal savings, plus any other investment assets which you can dispose of in order to acquire cash without having a negative impact on your lifestyle or quality of life (i.e. means not selling off your personal home, any of your bodily organs, etc.)

 

Other investment assets could indeed include your investment comics or any other investment collectibles which you might have. First and formost, however, it should be noted that comic collecting is meant to be a hobby for fun and any additional financial gain which you can derive from it should be seen as a bonus. In this sense, your comic investments should be seen only as a supplement to funding your retirement and not the end all and be all that many of you are trying to suggest.

 

Of course, if you are spending a thousand dollars or more on a particular comic book, I certainly do hope you are also keeping one eye open to hopefully getting some form of positive financial return on the book instead of haphazardly losing your shirt on the purchase.

 

 

[Superman2006]

What are you in the went up 44% last year?

 

Most of my 401K(s) are S&P 500 index funds. The market was up quite a lot last year. I think the S&P 500 was up over 30% last year. Remember, 44% is gains plus contributions, not just gains.

 

Ahhh, I see, a good chunk in S&P 500... 'nuff said... back to topic at hand...

[RockMyAmadeus]

So, in the interest of getting this thread back on track (of which I will take my share of the blame), what are the comics that are sure bets for the next 20 years? Anyone care to share?

 

Going a step further...

 

Which comics were the sure bets in 1994, that people specifically and purposely bought for investment purposes in quantities that would make the investment worthwhile?

[Jaydogrules]

 

 

I know, I know.

 

 

I think it is evident that the waving guy means that I am someone who has.

 

-J.

I'll try it again....

 

AND....?

 

You said:

 

Either way, there have been plenty of posters that have come on here with real life experience that have directly refuted your claims

 

BESIDES you and DEALERS, who....?

 

Several earlier posters on this thread. But I do think it's a bit disingenuous to say "dealers don't count", when I can assure you that most dealers will tell you that the inventory of comics they have on hand at any given time is certainly money invested on their part. They sometimes will hold a book for a year or years before they sell for a profit. Further, by your definition a "dealer" would be anyone who ever sells any of their comics at a profit. Makes no sense to me.

[HighStakesComics]

I list my picks in the first post of the thread. It's been a giant urinating match ever since. For the record, my top picks are All Star Comics #3 and Forever People #1, both DC's. GSX #1 and Fantastic Four #48 my top two Marvels.

[RockMyAmadeus]

First and formost, however, it should be noted that comic collecting is meant to be a hobby for fun and any additional financial gain which you can derive from it should be seen as a bonus.

 

This is what I, and many others, have said since the beginning.

 

Glad we can agree.

 

[thehumantorch]

Let's say Earth 2 rjrjr invested in comics rather than his 401k and retired with 1.5-2 million instead of 3-4 million. Would that then be considered a poor investment? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say, but I think doubling or tripling or quadrupling your original investment is an extremely successful end result.

 

 

From reading a lot of the postings here since last night, I am starting to think that many of the posters here believe that comic investing means funding your retirement entirely based only upon the proceeds from your comic book collection, exclusive of any other investment assets.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth as this line of thinking makes absolutely no sense at all. From my point of view, retirement funding means deriving income from various sources such as your company pension plan, your government pension plan, your own personal registered savings plans (ie. RRSP's, TFSA's, 401K's, etc), your secondary real estate holdings, your own personal savings, plus any other investment assets which you can dispose of in order to acquire cash without having a negative impact on your lifestyle or quality of life (i.e. means not selling off your personal home, any of your bodily organs, etc.)

 

Other investment assets could indeed include your investment comics or any other investment collectibles which you might have. First and formost, however, it should be noted that comic collecting is meant to be a hobby for fun and any additional financial gain which you can derive from it should be seen as a bonus. In this sense, your comic investments should be seen only as a supplement to funding your retirement and not the end all and be all that many of you are trying to suggest.

 

Of course, if you are spending a thousand dollars or more on a particular comic book, I certainly do hope you are also keeping one eye open to hopefully getting some form of positive financial return on the book instead of haphazardly losing your shirt on the purchase.

 

 

Wonderful post. Perhaps key comics will continue to increase in value or perhaps they won't. Counting on them to be a wonderful investment is very risky. Pension plans, IRA/RRSP/TFSA and all of the other investment instruments should be the focus of anyone who expects to live a long life.

[shadroch]

 

 

I know, I know.

 

 

I think it is evident that the waving guy means that I am someone who has.

 

-J.

I'll try it again....

 

AND....?

 

You said:

 

Either way, there have been plenty of posters that have come on here with real life experience that have directly refuted your claims

 

BESIDES you and DEALERS, who....?

 

 

I have not been a dealer in years.

[rjrjr]

I will take this one step further. The fact that so many on here are slamming books as investments pretty much CONFIRMS with CERTAINTY that prices have a ways to go. When everyone on this thread turns bullish on comics, dump your collection and move back into baseball cards.

 

The contrarian investing model can be a successful way to invest.

[shadroch]

Let's say Earth 2 rjrjr invested in comics rather than his 401k and retired with 1.5-2 million instead of 3-4 million. Would that then be considered a poor investment? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say, but I think doubling or tripling or quadrupling your original investment is an extremely successful end result.

 

 

From reading a lot of the postings here since last night, I am starting to think that many of the posters here believe that comic investing means funding your retirement entirely based only upon the proceeds from your comic book collection, exclusive of any other investment assets.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth as this line of thinking makes absolutely no sense at all. From my point of view, retirement funding means deriving income from various sources such as your company pension plan, your government pension plan, your own personal registered savings plans (ie. RRSP's, TFSA's, 401K's, etc), your secondary real estate holdings, your own personal savings, plus any other investment assets which you can dispose of in order to acquire cash without having a negative impact on your lifestyle or quality of life (i.e. means not selling off your personal home, any of your bodily organs, etc.)

 

Other investment assets could indeed include your investment comics or any other investment collectibles which you might have. First and formost, however, it should be noted that comic collecting is meant to be a hobby for fun and any additional financial gain which you can derive from it should be seen as a bonus. In this sense, your comic investments should be seen only as a supplement to funding your retirement and not the end all and be all that many of you are trying to suggest.

 

Of course, if you are spending a thousand dollars or more on a particular comic book, I certainly do hope you are also keeping one eye open to hopefully getting some form of positive financial return on the book instead of haphazardly losing your shirt on the purchase.

 

 

Wonderful post. Perhaps key comics will continue to increase in value or perhaps they won't. Counting on them to be a wonderful investment is very risky. Pension plans, IRA/RRSP/TFSA and all of the other investment instruments should be the focus of anyone who expects to live a long life.

 

Of course one should max out their IRA or 401 each year.That should go without saying. My comic investments are made with money I have after all my obligations are taken care of. When all is going right and I have extra money, I look to buy something I like that has a better than average chance of making a profit. Could be a comic, could be OA, might be a Peter Max Litho, might be a coin or an ounce of precious metal.

[rjrjr]

I list my picks in the first post of the thread. It's been a giant urinating match ever since. For the record, my top picks are All Star Comics #3 and Forever People #1, both DC's. GSX #1 and Fantastic Four #48 my top two Marvels.

 

Forever People 1 makes sense because of the movie tie-in. Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with the GA and SA prices, so I don't know if All Star Comics 3 and Fantastic Four 48 are good bets or not. GSX 1 is about $4000 now in CGC 9.6, correct? It has the first appearance of Storm, Colossus, and Nightcrawler.

 

For my money, DC Comics Presents 26 is a comparable book to GSX 1 and not as lofty in price. It came out 5 short years after GSX 1 and I believe current prices are $200 for a CGC 9.6. The book has the first appearance of Raven, Cyborg, and Starfire. Rumor has Cyborg appearing in the upcoming Superman/Batman movie. If a Teen Titans movie is ever released, DC would be silly to go with any line-up that doesn't include the class New Teen Titans line-up.

[rjrjr]

I list my picks in the first post of the thread. It's been a giant urinating match ever since. For the record, my top picks are All Star Comics #3 and Forever People #1, both DC's. GSX #1 and Fantastic Four #48 my top two Marvels.

 

Forever People 1 makes sense because of the movie tie-in. Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with the GA and SA prices, so I don't know if All Star Comics 3 and Fantastic Four 48 are good bets or not. GSX 1 is about $4000 now in CGC 9.6, correct? It has the first appearance of Storm, Colossus, and Nightcrawler.

 

For my money, DC Comics Presents 26 is a comparable book to GSX 1 and not as lofty in price. It came out 5 short years after GSX 1 and I believe current prices are $200 for a CGC 9.6. The book has the first appearance of Raven, Cyborg, and Starfire. Rumor has Cyborg appearing in the upcoming Superman/Batman movie. If a Teen Titans movie is ever released, DC would be silly to go with any line-up that doesn't include the class New Teen Titans line-up.

 

 

What about a book like Weird War Tales 93 (1st Creature Commandos)? I picked up a NM copy on eBay last month for $15 after looking for a nice copy for over a year on eBay. The funny thing is, no high grade copies showed up seemingly forever and then two copies popped up in the same week from 2 different sellers. I took the cheaper copy because from the scans, they looked to be the same grade. I think the other copy sold for $20.

 

There are probably lots of smaller 1st appearances that go for very little. I also bought a Brave and Bold 200 (1st Outsiders - Geoforce, Halo, Katana) for $10 in NM. You also have books like:

 

Flash 92 - 1st Impulse - $10 - 15 NM

Defenders 94 - 1st Gargoyle - $10 NM

Green Lantern 141 - 1st Omega Men - $20 NM

Green Lantern 201 - 1st Kilowag - $10 - 15 NM

DC Comics Presents 27 - 1st Mongul - $20 NM

 

It seems like most Marvel character first appearances are already fairly priced, but there are many DC characters that seem to get no love. Maybe the next 20 years will see a shift to these overlooked characters?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

I know, I know.

 

 

I think it is evident that the waving guy means that I am someone who has.

 

-J.

I'll try it again....

 

AND....?

 

You said:

 

Either way, there have been plenty of posters that have come on here with real life experience that have directly refuted your claims

 

BESIDES you and DEALERS, who....?

 

Several earlier posters on this thread.

 

And those posters ARE....?

 

It's a simple question, Jaydog, why are you making me work to get the answer...?

 

:shrug:

 

But I do think it's a bit disingenuous to say "dealers don't count", when I can assure you that most dealers will tell you that the inventory of comics they have on hand at any given time is certainly money invested on their part. They sometimes will hold a book for a year or years before they sell for a profit. Further, by your definition a "dealer" would be anyone who ever sells any of their comics at a profit. Makes no sense to me.

 

Once again, here is the definition of a DEALER: anyone who makes ALL or MOST of their income from buying and selling comics books.

 

So, no, the definition of dealer does NOT include anyone who ever sells any of their comics at a profit. How you arrived at that conclusion, I don't know.

 

Dealers, whether they look at their inventories as investments or not, are NOT investors. Neither is a stock broker, nor a contractor, nor a baker. They are in the business to SELL a good or a service, on a daily basis. Their business is to know the market they are in. A stock broker may make investments he or she thinks is wise, but they are not investors, because they are actively selling their products TO investors.

 

You really want the test of who is a dealer, and who is an investor? Offer an investor the current market rate for their investments. They'll tell you no, because they don't believe their investment has matured, and think there is future growth. Offer a dealer the current market rate for their inventory, and you know what? They'll sell it, because that's what they are in business to do.

 

I'm sure someone else can explain it better than I can; I'm a bit at a loss for words to know even why this needs to be explained.