Captain America Comics #1 Club 14 14

[Jaydogrules]

21 hours ago, jgallo said:

The upper left on the front shows some splitting.  The lower staple also shows some splitting a d the back top left is exposed and the paper looks brown and weak.

 

James G

 You know I'm just not seeing that.  My copy (thanks again, Reece) says "ow/w" on the label and that little exposed piece of paper doesn't look any different on it than it does on mine.  To me, the book just looks dirty, but like a very, very nice 1.0, cover attached, and everything.  I don't see anything that really "looks" brittle to me, like pieces of the book falling off and laying at the bottom of the well.  

If anything, considering restored, trimmed, married, incomplete 0.5 copies have gone for $20k, if I was a gambling man or a dealer, I would definitely buy this copy and CPR it.  I would send it to CCS raw, let them do their thing, and have it re-graded.  I have no doubt that this book's grade would improve, and since the "PQ" on the label ain't getting any lower, and odds are, would improve, I would have nothing to lose at all.  

Just a thought.

-J.

[G.A.tor]

Brittle is not getting any better.  And no presser worth their weight in comics is going to press a brittle (or even slightly brittle book), as it can only damage more

many brittle designations from cgc are due to weak spines (dried out) that are splitting. 

Defintiely not worth the risk to an experienced dealer/collector, imo

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, G.A.tor said:

Brittle is not getting any better.  And no presser worth their weight in comics is going to press a brittle (or even slightly brittle book), as it can only damage more

many brittle designations from cgc are due to weak spines (dried out) that are splitting. 

Defintiely not worth the risk to an experienced dealer/collector, imo

Yes I know all of the above.  There's still nothing to lose cracking it out and sending it in raw. As we all know the "PQ" on labels changes quite frequently on re-subs, especially with first gen labels.  If CCS gets the book and says "hey this is brittle we better not try pressing it", then so be it.  They can still clean it, and even that would likely improve the grade.  Or they could just reslab it with the same grade at a minimal cost.  

Either way, the risk is small and the potential upside is fairly huge.  

-J.

 

[G.A.tor]

2 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Yes I know all of the above.  There's still nothing to lose cracking it out and sending it in raw. As we all know the "PQ" on labels changes quite frequently on re-subs, especially with first gen labels.  If CCS gets the book and says "hey this is brittle we better not try pressing it", then so be it.  They can still clean it, and even that would likely improve the grade.  Or they could just reslab it with the same grade at a minimal cost.  

Either way, the risk is small and the potential upside is fairly huge.  

-J.

 

I've never seen a brittle pq designation be wrong. Sure there is some subjectivity in pq, but for the brittle designation to be assigned (day 1 or day 5000) that's about as lock as it gets. I see no upside at all except adding costs to an already overpriced book. But that's just my opinion

[Jaydogrules]

29 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

I've never seen a brittle pq designation be wrong. Sure there is some subjectivity in pq, but for the brittle designation to be assigned (day 1 or day 5000) that's about as lock as it gets. I see no upside at all except adding costs to an already overpriced book. But that's just my opinion

CGC calls a book "brittle" even if just a small portion or area of pages is brittle , no?  If the spine is strong you can do a press.  If a grader was just overly harsh that day maybe it comes back "tan to cream".  Who knows.  Either way , low risk.  

And if a restored 0.5 is a $20k book, $40k for a potentially "upgradeable" blue 1.0 looks about right to me.  Does that mean I think cap 1 is a "40k a point" book?  No, not just yet.  But as you yourself have said, there's greater pricing pressures in the lower grades.  

-J.

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[sacentaur]

5 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

I've never seen a brittle pq designation be wrong. Sure there is some subjectivity in pq, but for the brittle designation to be assigned (day 1 or day 5000) that's about as lock as it gets. I see no upside at all except adding costs to an already overpriced book. But that's just my opinion

I'm with you, Rick - why monkey around with a brittle book?

But to some people, 'page quality doesn't matter' so it's difficult to take what they say seriously.

[Jaydogrules]

2 minutes ago, sacentaur said:

I'm with you, Rick - why monkey around with a brittle book?

But to some people, 'page quality doesn't matter' so it's difficult to take what they say seriously.

Are you deliberately ignoring the context of what I'm saying ?

Or is it just flying over your head? 

-J.

[G.A.tor]

12 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

CGC calls a book "brittle" even if just a small portion or area of pages is brittle , no?  If the spine is strong you can do a press.  If a grader was just overly harsh that day maybe it comes back "tan to cream".  Who knows.  Either way , low risk.  

And if a restored 0.5 is a $20k book, $40k for a potentially "upgradeable" blue 1.0 looks about right to me.  Does that mean I think cap 1 is a "40k a point" book?  No.  But as you yourself have said, there's greater pricing pressures in the lower grades.  

-J.

 

I don't believe dry cleaning can improved the stains on the cover. The book has liquid damage (especially spine) and likely when it dried out it made the spine brittle. 

J is correct that even if just one small portion of a book is brittle that is cgc's designation, but you can't "unbrittle" even a small area (and it remain unrestored)    

I doubt you can clean this book up any meaningful extent and since entry level pricing is about the same , it is, imo (and I guess everyone else's at this point, since no one has bought) not worth spending asking money on it for a chance it still remains an entry level grade/value. 

Now, at 20k, maybe, but at 40k, no way. Again just my opinion 

Edited July 4, 2017 by G.A.tor

[Jaydogrules]

9 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

I don't believe dry cleaning can improved the stains on the cover. The book has liquid damage (especially spine) and likely when it dried out it made the spine brittle. 

J is correct that even if just one small portion of a book is brittle that is cgc's designation, but you can't "unbrittle" even a small area (and it remain unrestored)    

I doubt you can clean this book up any meaningful extent and since entry level pricing is about the same , it is, imo (and I guess everyone else's at this point, since no one has bought) not worth spending any money on it for a chance it still remains an entry level grade/value. 

Fair enough.   If you think that's water staining then no that couldn't be cleaned.  I just thought it looked dirty. Could be a combo of both.  But if a 1.5 is still a $40k-ish book or a 1.8 even, then no it's not worth it.  There's a 2.5 with a $78k offer on c link.  So maybe it would be a win even at a 1.8.

I just feel like with the cover attached it had a chance at a 2.0 if handled with care, and if the pages were perhaps graded too harshly back in the early 2000s when that book was likely graded  (and CGC was generally stricter).  I was just thinking out loud (in a manner of speaking) but I see a potential combo of factors that could work out for someone with a penchant for such things.  

-J.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[G.A.tor]

6 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Fair enough.   If you think that's water staining then no that couldn't be cleaned.  I just thought it looked dirty. Could be a combo of both.  But if a 1.5 is still a $40k-ish book or a 1.8 even, then no it's not worth it.  There's a 2.5 with a $78k offer on c link.  So maybe it would be a win even at a 1.8.

I just feel like with the cover attached it had a chance at a 2.0 if handled with care, and if the pages were perhaps graded too harshly back in the early 2000s when that book was likely graded  (and CGC was generally stricter).  I was just thinking out loud (in a manner of speaking) but I see a potential combo of factors that could work out for someone with a penchant for such things.  

-J.

Given how quickly a "good deal" on a cap 1 would have been reacted too (recent underpriced clink example), I think the market overall has decided there's no real potential in the 1.0 brittle copy or surely it would have been long gone by now ?

[Jaydogrules]

7 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Given how quickly a "good deal" on a cap 1 would have been reacted too (recent underpriced clink example), I think the market overall has decided there's no real potential in the 1.0 brittle copy or surely it would have been long gone by now ?

70 watchers.

No guts.  No glory.    

-J.

[G.A.tor]

13 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

70 watchers.

No guts.  No glory.    

-J.

There are a ton of folks that make a living off that niche in the market...zero takers tells me all I need to know

[Jaydogrules]

32 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

There are a ton of folks that make a living off that niche in the market...zero takers tells me all I need to know

Without a doubt he's getting offers.  

He's holding for a strong price.  He knows what he has.  

-J.

[G.A.tor]

50 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Without a doubt he's getting offers.  

He's holding for a strong price.  He knows what he has.  

-J.

You used to be able to view number of offers. No longer?

[Jaydogrules]

Just now, G.A.tor said:

You used to be able to view number of offers. No longer?

Yes that's weird.  Now you can only do it after the deal closes.  Assuming it's closed through eBay.  

-J.

[G.A.tor]

1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said:

Yes that's weird.  Now you can only do it after the deal closes.  Assuming it's closed through eBay.  

-J.

[woowoo]

So you cant do nothing for Brittle pages at all ?

[G.A.tor]

9 minutes ago, woowoo said:

So you cant do nothing for Brittle pages at all ?

You can reinforce , leafcast etc but all restorative techniques

[G.A.tor]

16 minutes ago, szavisca said:

Curious about the "slightly brittle" designation and what you think the odds are of upgrading that one for pq on a resub to cgc...read a few threads on that topic, and there seems to be a lot of disagreement on what the designation even means. 

Slight brittle is typically Pages starting to spilt from spine. 

[woowoo]

22 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

You can reinforce , leafcast etc but all restorative techniques

Had a copy of Red Raven 1 the book was real brown and brittle on the spine. I had it cleaned and the book had nice off white pages and supple. I could still see the spine split but it did not smell anymore