Are there any ethics left in this hobby ?

[vaillant]

More than one book has been in one color label and upon resubmission been in another color label. One book just did it multiple times.

Sure fills you with confidence over CGC, doesn`t it?

 

Trimming is not easy to detect, by any means, especially if minimal, so confidence in professional grading is always OK, but the best thing is to judge the book "as is" and buy it accordingly. When trimming is considerable and/or bad, is perfectly noticeable at a glance, and the book not desirable at all. Not the case with SNiPER book.

[jimjum12]

When a book is suspected of minor trimming (I'm not talking about the obvious "chop shop" examples), the only person who can be 100% certain is the one who trimmed it. It's not an ethical issue if someone disagrees with CGC's assessment. Judging from the scans provided..... I would have my doubts also.... but one would really have to see the book in hand for an honest opinion. Atlas/Marvel in the 50's to early 60's probably had the worst production values in the industry.... so "looks" can be deceiving. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

That isn't what was happening in this case though.

 

The seller was debating whether trimming could be "hidden" from CGC.

 

..... that WOULD be unethical..... my awesome British friend. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Boboset]

When a book is suspected of minor trimming (I'm not talking about the obvious "chop shop" examples), the only person who can be 100% certain is the one who trimmed it. It's not an ethical issue if someone disagrees with CGC's assessment. Judging from the scans provided..... I would have my doubts also.... but one would really have to see the book in hand for an honest opinion. Atlas/Marvel in the 50's to early 60's probably had the worst production values in the industry.... so "looks" can be deceiving. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

That isn't what was happening in this case though.

 

The seller was debating whether trimming could be "hidden" from CGC.

 

But after the sale and as prompted by another boardie. It was just a conversation with no intent to deceive anyone. I did not have a problem with that part of the sales thread even if it didn't belong in that part or any part of forum.

[Boboset]

Where I think you're really right Gaz, is the "how to trick CGC" conversation, even as spoken hypothetically like we saw in that thread, doesn't belong anywhere on this forum. It would be one hell of a read though.

[budsbundy]

Hypothetical conversations are not in and of themselves unethical, and you can't glean any intent from that conversation, irrespective of whether the book sold or not.

 

I understand that some might find the conversation distasteful, but it can also be said that attempting to infer something about someone's character based on a vague two or three post exchange is also distasteful. The OP said his piece in that thread, and I think it would have been fair to at least allow them to respond to that post before starting an entirely different thread in general lamenting the loss of ethics in this hobby.

+1

[gaz973]

Where I think you're really right Gaz, is the "how to trick CGC" conversation, even as spoken hypothetically like we saw in that thread, doesn't belong anywhere on this forum. It would be one hell of a read though.

This is the sort of thing that I'm driving at. Trying to "trick" CGC to get the result you want is unethical to my mind, period and shouldn't be something that appears in a sales thread IMHO.

[Gunnz]

As long as money or personal gain is involved, there will always be those who will lie and deceit. That's my cynicism talking.

 

But, the number of those with admirable morals and ethics far outweighs those without. That's my anti-depressant talking.

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

As long as money or personal gain is involved, there will always be those who will lie and deceit. That's my cynicism talking.

 

But, the number of those with admirable morals and ethics far outweighs those without. That's my anti-depressant talking.

 

 

[porcupine48]

As long as money or personal gain is involved, there will always be those who will lie and deceit. That's my cynicism talking.

 

But, the number of those with admirable morals and ethics far outweighs those without. That's my anti-depressant talking.

 

 

Ah,what a great post from a great fellow!

[Buzzetta]

I really don't think anyone in that thread was up to any dishonorable, nefarious or otherwise shady actions.

 

The OP had a PLOD book.

OP disagreed with the 'trimmed' assessment

Offers the book on the boards

The book is sold

After it is SOLD and is all said and done, the OP PUBLICLY questions whether or not it could be pressed in a way and presented to CGC where they would change their assessment.

 

Book is out of that person's hands at that point and was already sold. If he was up to no good he would have asked in PM where everyone would not have seen it.

 

What am I missing?

 

My 2¢

[porcupine48]

as "things with value" continue to thrive, its going to come with the territory. People are always wanting to do more to make a bigger buck. Only way i know how to deal with it is to by from those you trust and know.

 

But this is coming from one of our own, respected Boardies in his own sales thread. Am I wrong to trust my fellow Board members ?

 

"one of our own" can be a loose statement here nowadays. Anyone can sign up for a message board, doesn't mean you should trust them.

 

but i get what your saying. Id personally like to think those who are on this forum are serious collectors who respect the hobby and the people in it. Manipulating a book to make an extra buck is anything but that.

 

either way. it sucks..

 

Just like to point out that the seller is from the class of 08

So what's wrong with 08!?

Jimmers,so upset he's talking like cal.....

[Jeffro.]

Hypothetical conversations are not in and of themselves unethical, and you can't glean any intent from that conversation, irrespective of whether the book sold or not.

 

I understand that some might find the conversation distasteful, but it can also be said that attempting to infer something about someone's character based on a vague two or three post exchange is also distasteful. The OP said his piece in that thread, and I think it would have been fair to at least allow them to respond to that post before starting an entirely different thread in general lamenting the loss of ethics in this hobby.

 

Really doesn't take much for the torches and pitchforks to come out these days.

[blazingbob]

This is what I have an issue with.

 

Is the seller thinking of the person who might buy the book if you did get it past CGC?

 

What if it were resubmitted? Should that buyer go through the same type of anxiety that a recent board member went through?

 

This is exactly the type of shady seller tactics that give dealers a bad name and also causes customers to leave the hobby.

 

Which we cannot afford.

 

My two cents. Listen if you want to do this type of stuff do me a favor and keep it between your ears.

[Hamlet]

I think the fundamental issue is that there is waning confidence in the CGC's ability to detect trimming reliably. I've toyed with the idea of targeting trimmed books like this because I figure that I might be getting trimmed books in a blue label anyway, so I might as well just save the money.

 

And of course I wonder about the possibility of buying a couple dozen examples and cracking them out and re-submitting them. What percentage would come back blue? Probably not zero. Enough to pay for the grading fees? That's the real question isn't it?

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

as "things with value" continue to thrive, its going to come with the territory. People are always wanting to do more to make a bigger buck. Only way i know how to deal with it is to by from those you trust and know.

 

But this is coming from one of our own, respected Boardies in his own sales thread. Am I wrong to trust my fellow Board members ?

 

"one of our own" can be a loose statement here nowadays. Anyone can sign up for a message board, doesn't mean you should trust them.

 

but i get what your saying. Id personally like to think those who are on this forum are serious collectors who respect the hobby and the people in it. Manipulating a book to make an extra buck is anything but that.

 

either way. it sucks..

 

Just like to point out that the seller is from the class of 08

So what's wrong with 08!?

Jimmers,so upset he's talking like cal.....

 

nothing at all just like there is nothing wrong with 13, 14 and even 15. My point is that it wasn't a "new" member like people are led to believe

[Buzzetta]

This is what I have an issue with.

 

Is the seller thinking of the person who might buy the book if you did get it past CGC?

 

What if it were resubmitted? Should that buyer go through the same type of anxiety that a recent board member went through?

 

This is exactly the type of shady seller tactics that give dealers a bad name and also causes customers to leave the hobby.

 

Which we cannot afford.

 

My two cents. Listen if you want to do this type of stuff do me a favor and keep it between your ears.

 

It was mentioned after the book had already been sold and was not used as a selling point.

[conditionfreak]

First of all. Just because someone is a member here for a few years. It does not make them part of the community. We all know who here is "part of the community" and who is a periodic "in and out" visitor.

 

Secondly, and most important. Caveat emptor in all things.

 

Money is what many people want. However they can get it without going to jail. Ethics and reputation is not considered. Because they can simply (on here) disappear or change to another screen name.

 

Caveat Emptor.

 

Having said all of that. Is there any way possible, to absolutely and positively, guarantee a comic book has not been tampered with in any way, shape or form? We have had people with stories of OO books, that were deemed to be trimmed or restored.

[budsbundy]

here's my take on the questions asked in that thread.

 

There are certain supplements you can take that will give you a false positive test result for steroid use.

 

It's my impression from reading the questions in that thread that the OP felt he had received a "false positive" plod for trimming.

Basically that he didn't think it was trimmed, and that like other books in the past, it had incorrectly received a plod grade(or a false positive for sake of conversation) and was asking if pressing it more might alleviate that/those characteristics that were contributing to what he believed was an incorrect assessment on the part of CGC.

 

Not that he truly believed that it was trimmed, and was trying to find a way to trick CGC into thinking that it wasn't.

 

I might have that all wrong, but that's the impression I got.

[Gunnz]

As long as money or personal gain is involved, there will always be those who will lie and deceit. That's my cynicism talking.

 

But, the number of those with admirable morals and ethics far outweighs those without. That's my anti-depressant talking.

 

 

Ah,what a great post from a great fellow!

 

You're just saying that because I drooled over your GA/SA books. But i'll take it!

[Warren Oates]

Some people need to calm down a bit. Nobody here has admitted they want to game the system and unplod books. My guess is virtually nobody wants to. And trust that the checks are in place to catch them here eventually. Again, I think it was some idle speculation after the book had sold.

 

C'mon man the seller didn't crack it open and try to swindle somebody. They could have done that and pawned it off on ebay, they did not, they swallowed the plod and sold it here.