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[Red84]

I'm sorry, but your last post is by far the dumbest thing you've said in this thread. And that's saying something. Please just go away.

 

Officially done here. I feel my IQ dropping listening to your verbal garbage.

 

I'm done feeding the troll.

[ChiSoxFan]

Regular Perry Mason.

 

Those are some heavy accusations. If they did what you say they did...then why haven't they been charged or closed down?

Seems as though all this was long ago and no doubt they run a much tighter ship now. There are a number of crooks on ebay. I bought a $10K item that was a fraud and why I use paypal. They completely covered it.

Seems to me it was the ebay seller who was far more in the wrong. And PGX back when was doing what they could to insure it would not happen again. I am sure they redesigned their holders since.

Anyway, this is America we give everyone a second chance! (or more

 

I already mentioned a few times CGC missed detached centerfolds and I just opened a handful of books.

 

Seems others have tried proving that Obama'd birth certificate was also doctored. Same sort of pictures...yet, there he is still in the White House...given another chance after his first 4 years no matter how many scandals. So, I am willing to give PGX a second chance too.

I'll bet you Mr. B could tell some stories about CCG as well.

 

Of course, you did not really respond to what I wrote; instead you accuse and go off again on another tangent of something that happened long ago.

Most auction houses have scandals as well. Look at Sotherbys and other auction houses that have been caught lying and cheating...yet they still exist today...and are held in pretty high regard.

 

Anyway, I've heard of blind allegiance, but this is ridiculous!

 

OK, enjoy your narrow viewpoint, seeing everything through those Red/Rose colored glasses. I wish you well.

 

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Regular Perry Mason.

 

Those are some heavy accusations. If they did what you say they did...then why haven't they been charged or closed down?

 

I already answered this: because they are too small fry, and those in authority don't care.

 

Seems as though all this was long ago and no doubt they run a much tighter ship now.

 

Right, because when you get away with all sorts of fraud, you definitely have motive to clean up your act.

 

 

Anyway, this is America we give everyone a second chance! (or more

 

Not when they haven't answered for their first "chance."

 

Of course, you did not really respond to what I wrote; instead you accuse and go off again on another tangent of something that happened long ago.

 

Really...? Tell me what it was you wrote that wasn't responded to. Because that's pretty much been your MO this entire thread.

 

Most auction houses have scandals as well. Look at Sotherbys and other auction houses that have been caught lying and cheating...yet they still exist today...and are held in pretty high regard.

 

The house is called "Sotheby's."

 

And why do you absolutely insist on justifying away everything by pointing to others doing the same things....?

 

You have also done THAT this entire thread, and it never washes.

 

"Everybody else does questionable things, so why can't I?"

 

 

Anyway, I've heard of blind allegiance, but this is ridiculous!

 

Why do you keep saying things like this? Pointing out that PGX is a fraudulent company does not therefore equal "blind allegiance" to CGC.

 

 

OK, enjoy your narrow viewpoint, seeing everything through those Red/Rose colored glasses. I wish you well.

 

It's true, those who want to skirt the line of fraud often think of those who won't as having a "narrow viewpoint."

 

Do you really wish me well.....?

 

[oakman29]

RMA Rocks!

[ChiSoxFan]

RMA Rocks!

 

[storypapers]

Red and Rock

 

Bye Red

 

I really do wish you well. This is a debate...must I hate you to have a debate even if we disagree for the most part?

 

I appreciate yours and others participation here until they or you feel the need to bad mouth.

 

One thing you, Rock did not answer was the fact I laid out that CGC offers to un-restore a book.

Seems to me it pays for them to give a "slight restoration" purple label rather than a blue "slight color touch" up or glue a pass; then offer to unrestore.

Shouldn't this be done by an outside party? Ethical?

 

Also I wonder what you would do with a high grade Det. 27 that came back slight touch up? Would you dare to un-restore or send to say PGX who might give it a pass, based on what you say here that they do not screen restoration well?

Now we are talking a few $100K difference, not a $1K or so. Since level of restoration is a "call" I would rather it fall on one side of the fence than the other, wouldn't you? That is not fraud. This is what I meant by your blind allegiance. Is CGC the last word?!!!

If a staple reattachment is considered restoration, I want no part of a company (for such situations) that adheres to that policy while they can call slight color touch up or glue not restoration! A book should be seen in its best light for the owner...not the worst.

 

IMHO This entire restoration designation if overrated and cost the owners lots of money. A real nice book can have crayon all over it and not be considered restoration but put a piece of tape on a staple..or ..color touch up a black spine line and the book's value cuts value in half or worse. There was a time when restoration was actually a plus! I do like the idea that CGC and others seem to be expanding their definitions as to the extent of Restoration. Hopefully the market will adjust accordingly.

 

Can you at least admit after all this time, given what you no know that the Hulk 1 which was a blue label...that a reattached staple should not be considered restoration if pressing isn't considered restoration? These are some questions you avoided answering or did I miss that?

 

Finally, as someone else said earlier, we are all entitled to our opinion and to chose who we wish to use for whatever reason and that means one should not be berated for making such a decision.

 

CGC is an excellent company but there is room for improvement. Mr. B may just do that; in the mean time I will use who I think best on a one to one basis. At this point I have certainly sent more to CGC.

 

I still think no matter what company is used the seller and buyer make the final decision and that is why similar grades go higher one day and lower the next. And that is only what we see on GPA. Of course there are many more transactions that we do not see.

 

Oh and regarding your quote. What fraud??

 

You misinterpret. What I am saying is probably every auction house, grading service has made mistakes, honestly or not. So have many people who have a record or have gone to jail. Do we never deal with them again? Eye of caution, fine.

 

From what I see of PGX they were never taken to court, said they were sorry for leaving such a loop hole, cleaned up there act, created a better holder and have been doing business since the incident you pointed out for another 8 years without further incident. They deserve another chance. You have not proven to me that PGX is a fraudulent company.

 

So glad you pointed out the proper spelling of Sotheby, that was really important!!

 

I think more appropriate;

 

"A questionable act, is not necessarily a guilty verdict, that is why it is deemed "questionable." They said they were sorry, made changes and continue on. What more should be done???

 

There was no proof of fraud on PGX part. Their grading and level of restoration, if enough for restoration, is their "opinion" an opinion people pay for as in any other grading service.

 

Dare you continue?

 

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

This guy reminds me of Beerbong.

[HighStakesComics]

Storypapers, Storypapers, Storypapers. You just don't know when to quit do ya, Man? Your behavior and self-justifications are leading me to believe there may be more to this than meets the eye.

 

Like I stated before, pressing and staple-work are one thing, albeit frowned upon by some, but undisclosed CT and trim is a whole different ball of wax. I think your saving grace here would be if you provided the CGC cert # from the original "blue?" label 3.5 before the staple work was performed. Best case we can adjust the census and you and PGX will be vindicated of doing anything on the wrong side of whats generally considerwd the grey line in this instance. Worst case? Well lets just hope that this thread doesn't go down that path. I imagine it would be a very dark road indeed.

 

Regardless, this could be your last and best chance to end this thread on a better note than it started. The same could be said for PGX. Lets hope for positive outcomes and human decency.

 

Good Luck,

 

Adam

[storypapers]

Come on Adam

 

Nothing more than meets the eye. Just trying to debate that their are other valid points of view on comic collecting as a hobby, investment and business.

 

Third party grading is just an aid to those ends. Not gospel!!!

 

Now you want the label too! The label is dead.

 

Staple work? Staple falls through CF due to handling as it was attached at one time.

So reattach...and that is restoration by any stretch? This is what some people here

have been lead to believe. I doubt most collectors could give a rats tush!

 

And...Who was talking about color touch with regard to my book?

 

BTW I sent in three books to PGX and all were cited for color touch up! I guess I wasn't given a pass! So have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I sent another to CGC and am told it is a C-1. I asked about where the CT...and they were very vague only telling me I could submit to the department that could possibly un-restore. As far as I could see, there was one dot of color touch up (not told to me as it was under a piece of tape that I removed) that I saw which I guess I will have to rip out so it can be unrestored!!!! That is how crazy this hobby has become!

 

Or I could have them do it...for around $55 plus re-grading fees, encapsulating,

re-mailing! 6-8 weeks, then sent for regrading and so on.

So perhaps $100 or more after $70 or more already spent for a now 1/2 devalued book!

 

You want to be honest (as I have been all along)...lets be. You know damn well no matter what I say, it will somehow be twisted. And why would anyone be forgiving for every using PGX on a thread by CGC.

 

Not sure why I tried so hard to have "you" see, IMHO, that this hobby is quite quirky and just because an action or grade by CGC may be given does not make it the be all and end all.

 

Once out of the holder it is again any "man's" game.

No doubt most every dealer and collector encapsulates and breaks out when they think to their advantage.

 

Anything wrong with that? Unethical? The only thing I did wrong was to believe I could get a grade on images sent without all the attack dogs and additional questions.

 

BTW What did you think of that 1.0 CGC graded Hulk 1 listed on the forum and now on ebay? Under-graded? He got a raw deal. Does CGC care or grade? Not likely.

Perhaps they need to be a little more forgiving in their final grading and take the entire book and look into consideration and worry less about a reattached staple if they in fact do.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

"It's not my fault! Everyone else does it! Look at what everyone ELSE is doing! Nothing to see here! Ignore the man behind the curtain!"

 

[MR SigS]

Staple work? Staple falls through CF due to handling as it was attached at one time.

So reattach...and that is restoration by any stretch?

 

When you did this, did you add additional holes to the paper in order to attach the page? That's really all I wanted to know. Is the staple now going through a different, albeit close to the original, spot of the CF?

[storypapers]

No new holes just staples grabbed at a different spot a fraction over from the slit that allowed it to fall through.

 

 

[porcupine48]

I think this thread can stretch to 50 pages by the weekend.

Ill do my best!!

[porcupine48]

RMA Rocks!

 

Yep,I love it when he does that!

Play it again,Rocky!

[storypapers]

Adam...Found the original label and back cover image.

 

0170117002

 

Look it up.....you can even see how horribly off the back cover and pages were. It had to be re-pressed. Don't you agree?

 

Note: Pages are WHITE!

 

[Boboset]

This was a CGC 3.5 and you threw a temper tantrum when other people thought it was also a 3.5? And that's after you mangled the bottom staple and shifted the natural spine to the front cover...

 

Dear god...

 

[HighStakesComics]

Good PR move, Storypapers!

[comicdonna]

This thread still has no beginning or end.

[storypapers]

Thanks Adam

 

See I even took your advice

 

And Bob...after the pressing it certainly was no longer a 3.5

And obviously after the regrade a lot higher. There is little doubt that CGC would have graded higher as well. I am sure it is not the first time they have regraded a pressed book.

Staple not mangled at all...the graders did not even think it important.

 

And actually the spine went toward the back not front.

 

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

No new holes just staples grabbed at a different spot a fraction over from the slit that allowed it to fall through.

 

So, you bent the legs of the staples...sideways?