Marvel Preview 4 and 7 -- EBAY SHILLING ON STEROIDS

[bounty_coder]

This thread is a train wreck.

 

How can this not have been closed already?

 

It's cuzz this is the Mag dungeon. The guards don't come round' hur thoo often

[Jaydogrules]

This thread is a train wreck.

 

How can this not have been closed already?

 

Why would it be? Only one boardie went off the rails. Threads pointing out possible ebay scams and shady ebay sellers are all over these forums.

 

-J.

[metallickyrulz]

This thread is a train wreck.

 

How can this not have been closed already?

 

Why would it be? Only one boardie went off the rails. Threads pointing out possible ebay scams and shady ebay sellers are all over these forums.

 

-J.

 

Because. Complaining about internet complaining. It does happen every so often, and there's nothing sweeter. It's like the rare double rainbow.

 

"Are we still talking about this?!"

 

"Yes, we are. Thanks for your valuable input to this discussion on an internet forum made for discussing things. Sorry we bothered you with our caring about stuff and taking up precious internet space with our words."

 

-Sincerely,

Everyone who has ever posted in a thread that contains an argument in it about things you can't stand reading, even though you read it and didn't have to.

[AlexanderM]

This thread is a train wreck.

 

How can this not have been closed already?

 

Why would it be? Only one boardie went off the rails. Threads pointing out possible ebay scams and shady ebay sellers are all over these forums.

 

-J.

 

I am a bit mixed on this. On one hand I think it is good that shilling is pointed out. I just think that if we point fingers at some, we should do it fairly and more all round.

 

On the other hand it is a bit tricky ethically thinking about how this discussion would not have taken place if this was an Ebay og Google run forum. We have our own sales forum here and this is run by CGC - hence we can slag Ebay. Also there might be some interest in getting more sales and buyers here rather than on Ebay. This was (I think) not your intention Jay, but the fact that the thread still exists slagging off Ebay - would not have happened if it was slagging off CGC, would it?

 

There are things happening here on this forum that some could easily see as manipulation too. let's be honest. F.ex. people agree to discuss how great a book is in general forum or elsewhere and then miraculously some copies pop up for sale in the sales forum. This might be harder to prove, as it is more cleverly done than mere shilling - and, just like GPA highs can happen without shilling, such books can also pop up for sale simply because someone saw the discussion and saw it as a good opportunity. It would probably be impossible to determine which is which.

 

Finally, I would personally have found it much more interesting if someone had the guts to look into shilling on books like Hulk 1 and books like that, rather than just go after the 'new kids on the block' books. Hulk 1 should be a clear candidate, but there are many others.. for example this one:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7680252&fpart=8

 

But maybe because now suddenly some people have 'a horse in the race', ethics takes a back seat? I hope not.

[metallickyrulz]

This thread is a train wreck.

 

How can this not have been closed already?

 

Why would it be? Only one boardie went off the rails. Threads pointing out possible ebay scams and shady ebay sellers are all over these forums.

 

-J.

 

I am a bit mixed on this. On one hand I think it is good that shilling is pointed out. I just think that if we point fingers at some, we should do it fairly and more all round.

 

On the other hand it is a bit tricky ethically thinking about how this discussion would not have taken place if this was an Ebay og Google run forum. We have our own sales forum here and this is run by CGC - hence we can slag Ebay. Also there might be some interest in getting more sales and buyers here rather than on Ebay. This was (I think) not your intention Jay, but the fact that the thread still exists slagging off Ebay - would not have happened if it was slagging off CGC, would it?

 

There are things happening here on this forum that some could easily see as manipulation too. let's be honest. F.ex. people agree to discuss how great a book is in general forum or elsewhere and then miraculously some copies pop up for sale in the sales forum. This might be harder to prove, as it is more cleverly done than mere shilling - and, just like GPA highs can happen without shilling, such books can also pop up for sale simply because someone saw the discussion and saw it as a good opportunity. It would probably be impossible to determine which is which.

 

Finally, I would personally have found it much more interesting if someone had the guts to look into shilling on books like Hulk 1 and books like that, rather than just go after the 'new kids on the block' books.

 

This is understandable, but please keep in mind that nobody, and I mean nobody pointed the finger at Mishmashman. If you check the prior thread about how MP7 is getting hot, Jay pointed out that some of the prices look shilled. I disagreed with him at first, and put forth some evidence. Out of nowhere comes Mishmash saying "How do you know they're shilled? Are you the one shilling them????" Literally every post that was posted by Jay showing proof of sales that had obvious shills (20 bids by "buyers" with 0-3 feedback on ebay), and some were bought as buy it now and relisted shortly after.

 

Mishmash was fighting tooth and nail to prove Jay wrong and attempt to paint him as a shiller or attempting to bring down the value of the book down to gobble them all up himself.

 

Then jjfversion1 pointed out that Mishmash had bought his book for half the price Mishmash allegedly sold the same copy for on eBay a week after buying it. Many were on Mishmash's side until it became abundantly clear that he had an agenda in being so defensive. He's never been this defensive for say Symbiotic's shill bidding. Most were right on the bandwagon on that one.

 

So, why pick on Jay for asserting that prices on the MP7 look fixed? Hmm, idk, I'll let you guys figure it out.

 

Also, the fact that he reported Jay and I for disagreeing with him, then went on to talk bad about us and our books was unnecessary. Oh and he threatened a libel suit against us and disappeared.

 

Just in case someone needs a comprehensive story about why this thread has been so long.

[AlexanderM]

This thread is a train wreck.

 

How can this not have been closed already?

 

Why would it be? Only one boardie went off the rails. Threads pointing out possible ebay scams and shady ebay sellers are all over these forums.

 

-J.

 

I am a bit mixed on this. On one hand I think it is good that shilling is pointed out. I just think that if we point fingers at some, we should do it fairly and more all round.

 

On the other hand it is a bit tricky ethically thinking about how this discussion would not have taken place if this was an Ebay og Google run forum. We have our own sales forum here and this is run by CGC - hence we can slag Ebay. Also there might be some interest in getting more sales and buyers here rather than on Ebay. This was (I think) not your intention Jay, but the fact that the thread still exists slagging off Ebay - would not have happened if it was slagging off CGC, would it?

 

There are things happening here on this forum that some could easily see as manipulation too. let's be honest. F.ex. people agree to discuss how great a book is in general forum or elsewhere and then miraculously some copies pop up for sale in the sales forum. This might be harder to prove, as it is more cleverly done than mere shilling - and, just like GPA highs can happen without shilling, such books can also pop up for sale simply because someone saw the discussion and saw it as a good opportunity. It would probably be impossible to determine which is which.

 

Finally, I would personally have found it much more interesting if someone had the guts to look into shilling on books like Hulk 1 and books like that, rather than just go after the 'new kids on the block' books.

 

This is understandable, but please keep in mind that nobody, and I mean nobody pointed the finger at Mishmashman. If you check the prior thread about how MP7 is getting hot, Jay pointed out that some of the prices look shilled. I disagreed with him at first, and put forth some evidence. Out of nowhere comes Mishmash saying "How do you know they're shilled? Are you the one shilling them????" Literally every post that was posted by Jay showing proof of sales that had obvious shills (20 bids by "buyers" with 0-3 feedback on ebay), and some were bought as buy it now and relisted shortly after.

 

Mishmash was fighting tooth and nail to prove Jay wrong and attempt to paint him as a shiller or attempting to bring down the value of the book down to gobble them all up himself.

 

Then jjfversion1 pointed out that Mishmash had bought his book for half the price Mishmash allegedly sold the same copy for on eBay a week after buying it. Many were on Mishmash's side until it became abundantly clear that he had an agenda in being so defensive. He's never been this defensive for say Symbiotic's shill bidding. Most were right on the bandwagon on that one.

 

So, why pick on Jay for asserting that prices on the MP7 look fixed? Hmm, idk, I'll let you guys figure it out.

 

Also, the fact that he reported Jay and I for disagreeing with him, then went on to talk bad about us and our books was unnecessary. Oh and he threatened a libel suit against us and disappeared.

 

Just in case someone needs a comprehensive story about why this thread has been so long.

 

Sure. I'm definitely not defending Mishmash because he went completely overboard - and I don't know if it has been proven, but given his reaction it would not surprise too much if he has been involved in shilling. But I don't want to judge on that because I haven't seen conclusive evidence. But he definitely lost it in this thread. That is clear.

[metallickyrulz]

This thread is a train wreck.

 

How can this not have been closed already?

 

Why would it be? Only one boardie went off the rails. Threads pointing out possible ebay scams and shady ebay sellers are all over these forums.

 

-J.

 

I am a bit mixed on this. On one hand I think it is good that shilling is pointed out. I just think that if we point fingers at some, we should do it fairly and more all round.

 

On the other hand it is a bit tricky ethically thinking about how this discussion would not have taken place if this was an Ebay og Google run forum. We have our own sales forum here and this is run by CGC - hence we can slag Ebay. Also there might be some interest in getting more sales and buyers here rather than on Ebay. This was (I think) not your intention Jay, but the fact that the thread still exists slagging off Ebay - would not have happened if it was slagging off CGC, would it?

 

There are things happening here on this forum that some could easily see as manipulation too. let's be honest. F.ex. people agree to discuss how great a book is in general forum or elsewhere and then miraculously some copies pop up for sale in the sales forum. This might be harder to prove, as it is more cleverly done than mere shilling - and, just like GPA highs can happen without shilling, such books can also pop up for sale simply because someone saw the discussion and saw it as a good opportunity. It would probably be impossible to determine which is which.

 

Finally, I would personally have found it much more interesting if someone had the guts to look into shilling on books like Hulk 1 and books like that, rather than just go after the 'new kids on the block' books.

 

This is understandable, but please keep in mind that nobody, and I mean nobody pointed the finger at Mishmashman. If you check the prior thread about how MP7 is getting hot, Jay pointed out that some of the prices look shilled. I disagreed with him at first, and put forth some evidence. Out of nowhere comes Mishmash saying "How do you know they're shilled? Are you the one shilling them????" Literally every post that was posted by Jay showing proof of sales that had obvious shills (20 bids by "buyers" with 0-3 feedback on ebay), and some were bought as buy it now and relisted shortly after.

 

Mishmash was fighting tooth and nail to prove Jay wrong and attempt to paint him as a shiller or attempting to bring down the value of the book down to gobble them all up himself.

 

Then jjfversion1 pointed out that Mishmash had bought his book for half the price Mishmash allegedly sold the same copy for on eBay a week after buying it. Many were on Mishmash's side until it became abundantly clear that he had an agenda in being so defensive. He's never been this defensive for say Symbiotic's shill bidding. Most were right on the bandwagon on that one.

 

So, why pick on Jay for asserting that prices on the MP7 look fixed? Hmm, idk, I'll let you guys figure it out.

 

Also, the fact that he reported Jay and I for disagreeing with him, then went on to talk bad about us and our books was unnecessary. Oh and he threatened a libel suit against us and disappeared.

 

Just in case someone needs a comprehensive story about why this thread has been so long.

 

Sure. I'm definitely not defending Mishmash because he went completely overboard - and I don't know if it has been proven, but given his reaction it would not surprise too much if he has been involved in shilling. But I don't want to judge on that because I haven't seen conclusive evidence. But he definitely lost it in this thread. That is clear.

 

You're reasonable, I like you

[Jaydogrules]

This thread is a train wreck.

 

How can this not have been closed already?

 

Why would it be? Only one boardie went off the rails. Threads pointing out possible ebay scams and shady ebay sellers are all over these forums.

 

-J.

 

Because. Complaining about internet complaining. It does happen every so often, and there's nothing sweeter. It's like the rare double rainbow.

 

"Are we still talking about this?!"

 

"Yes, we are. Thanks for your valuable input to this discussion on an internet forum made for discussing things. Sorry we bothered you with our caring about stuff and taking up precious internet space with our words."

 

-Sincerely,

Everyone who has ever posted in a thread that contains an argument in it about things you can't stand reading, even though you read it and didn't have to.

 

 

-J.

[bounty_coder]

I think that the oldsmobile has been running too long with the door closed in this thread. Feeling to feel a lil woozy...

[Jaydogrules]

Well this thread shrunk by a couple of pages overnight....

 

Just a quick update, because I like to finish what I start:

 

 

First, it looks like my friend mishmashman "sold" his MP 7 AGAIN overnight, at full asking price...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=191269367416

 

I'm not sure what voodoo he is somehow able to work with this particular book, but he should bottle it.

 

Since I am one who likes to finish what he starts I will give an update on a couple of Marvel preview 4's:

 

First apparent shill is an ongoing auction. I'm not sure why sellers can't just seem to let well enough alone and allow the market to decide what these books should really be going for....

 

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=261544496344&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

 

Here we have d**o with 0 feedback as the current top bidder. The seller clearly attempting to use this shill to set a floor for what he wants to get on the book, causing an obvious disadvantage to the REAL buyers who might actually want to own the book.

 

 

Second one is a recently closed auction, same thing happened once again...

 

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=231289400598&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

 

...in this one the shill bidder was b**e, with 0 feedback, which the seller used to get his opening bid. You will notice that in over 30 auctions, this "buyer" has never won, and in about 7 or 8 different auctions he placed the opening bid- and only the opening bid-- with this particular seller. In several other auctions, this "buyer" was evidently used to run up the bids, with this particular seller.

 

The book ended up going for more than the opening bid, but again, the market did not organically determine what this book "should have" sold for. Sellers stoking interest in their 0 bid auctions with fake bids, and/or running up the bids on their books with shills perverts auctions, and indeed harms buyers through fraud and deception, particularly on books like these that are currently "hot" from movie hype.

 

As others have noted, this is going on with plenty of other "hot books" I'm sure. If it can happen with these two minor BA magazines, I shudder to think how prevalent it really is. Frankly, it just reminds me why I stopped buying off from ebay.

 

-J.

 

 

[HarveySwick]

This thread is a train wreck.

 

How can this not have been closed already?

 

Why would it be? Only one boardie went off the rails. Threads pointing out possible ebay scams and shady ebay sellers are all over these forums.

 

-J.

 

Because. Complaining about internet complaining. It does happen every so often, and there's nothing sweeter. It's like the rare double rainbow.

 

"Are we still talking about this?!"

 

"Yes, we are. Thanks for your valuable input to this discussion on an internet forum made for discussing things. Sorry we bothered you with our caring about stuff and taking up precious internet space with our words."

 

-Sincerely,

Everyone who has ever posted in a thread that contains an argument in it about things you can't stand reading, even though you read it and didn't have to.

[comeaux]

This thread is a train wreck.

 

How can this not have been closed already?

 

Why would it be? Only one boardie went off the rails. Threads pointing out possible ebay scams and shady ebay sellers are all over these forums.

 

-J.

 

Because. Complaining about internet complaining. It does happen every so often, and there's nothing sweeter. It's like the rare double rainbow.

 

"Are we still talking about this?!"

 

"Yes, we are. Thanks for your valuable input to this discussion on an internet forum made for discussing things. Sorry we bothered you with our caring about stuff and taking up precious internet space with our words."

 

-Sincerely,

Everyone who has ever posted in a thread that contains an argument in it about things you can't stand reading, even though you read it and didn't have to.

 

[comeaux]

1. Shiller exposed – check

 

2. Exposed shiller throws tantrum & threatens lawsuits – check

 

3. Shiller FDQ then come back to CGC with new ID – coming soon

 

Phase 3 will occur shortly, it's almost Friday (thumbs u

[___]

ok, this thread lost me. Both of these books are on fire in high grade. Not seeing any shilling on the 9.4 that just sold for $1600 and the 9.6 has several different bidders all trumping each other.

[AlexanderM]

ok, this thread lost me. Both of these books are on fire in high grade. Not seeing any shilling on the 9.4 that just sold for $1600 and the 9.6 has several different bidders all trumping each other.

 

I think there might have been some shilling, but it seems there are so much interest that shilling has not and will not be a factor in the final price. But we will see.

[Jaydogrules]

ok, this thread lost me. Both of these books are on fire in high grade. Not seeing any shilling on the 9.4 that just sold for $1600 and the 9.6 has several different bidders all trumping each other.

 

I think there might have been some shilling, but it seems there are so much interest that shilling has not and will not be a factor in the final price. But we will see.

 

 

How is shilling not a factor when the shill bidders are the ones the legitimate buyers are trying to outbid? The current auction for the MP4 couldn't be more obviously shilled.

 

-J.

[awakeintheashes]

Well...looks like I missed some stuff. I was still able to compile some of Mishmash's hits from the last few days.

 

You'll be lucky if I don't sue you for libel, you little punk.

Getting caught with what, you clown?

I don't know what's dumber. You or the garbage books you tried to pass on to me.

 

 

 

There are some real scumbags on these boards but you are the chief.

And here's another you creep:

[HarveySwick]

[Comicopolis]

Well...looks like I missed some stuff. I was still able to compile some of Mishmash's hits from the last few days.

 

You'll be lucky if I don't sue you for libel, you little punk.

Getting caught with what, you clown?

I don't know what's dumber. You or the garbage books you tried to pass on to me.

 

 

 

There are some real scumbags on these boards but you are the chief.

And here's another you creep:

 

He's a charmer

[darkstar]

I was hooked as soon as that guy threatened a libel action. Reminded me of Red-rocks.

 

I disagree. He pulled out the legal action threat way too early.

 

Anyway this thread should be moved to Comics General; its the perfect Friday thread.