Marvel Preview 4 and 7 -- EBAY SHILLING ON STEROIDS

[1904 Comics]

Anytime someone upbids an auction for the sake of raising the value of their own book isn't necessarily bad. It may not be ethical, especially if you were to pull something like that on the boards. You see it on Storage Wars all the time where one person is bidding simply to deflate the resources of another and so this practice is done throughout auction houses which inevitably includes eBay.

 

I think the real idea being presented is if potential buyers are blindsighted by the purchase of lets say a $2000 book whereas the average buyer would only pay $1000 for the same copy, and whether it hurts the 'uninformed' buyer for paying over value.

 

When you put it that way, If I wanted something real bad, I would pay top dollar for it, not because I wanted to protect or improve the value of my investment, but because I want it that bad regardless of the cover price (aka every AF15 purchase). The markets will always shift up/down and as an investor as opposed to a collector, you will always face ups and downs. A good investor would have bought this book years ago. Depending on whether the buyer is a collector/investor/both. The fate and desire for this book stays the same and there is no way to control the supply/demand ratio.

 

My summary on this:

1. Book values go up = Positive

2. Buyers are happy = Positive

2a. Collectors got the book they wanted = Positive

2b. Investors continue to play the gamble game = Positive/Neutral depending how you look at it.

3. Sellers are happy = Positive

4. Those who prefer not to pay inflated prices just need to wait it out and eventually get an affordable copy because markets always climb up/down with patience. = Positive

 

Am I missing anything else?

[Jaydogrules]

Anytime someone upbids an auction for the sake of raising the value of their own book isn't necessarily bad. It may not be ethical, especially if you were to pull something like that on the boards. You see it on Storage Wars all the time where one person is bidding simply to deflate the resources of another and so this practice is done throughout auction houses which inevitably includes eBay.

 

I think the real idea being presented is if potential buyers are blindsighted by the purchase of lets say a $2000 book whereas the average buyer would only pay $1000 for the same copy, and whether it hurts the 'uninformed' buyer for paying over value.

 

When you put it that way, If I wanted something real bad, I would pay top dollar for it, not because I wanted to protect or improve the value of my investment, but because I want it that bad regardless of the cover price (aka every AF15 purchase). The markets will always shift up/down and as an investor as opposed to a collector, you will always face ups and downs. A good investor would have bought this book years ago. Depending on whether the buyer is a collector/investor/both. The fate and desire for this book stays the same and there is no way to control the supply/demand ratio.

 

My summary on this:

1. Book values go up = Positive

2. Buyers are happy = Positive

2a. Collectors got the book they wanted = Positive

2b. Investors continue to play the gamble game = Positive/Neutral depending how you look at it.

3. Sellers are happy = Positive

4. Those who prefer not to pay inflated prices just need to wait it out and eventually get an affordable copy because markets always climb up/down with patience. = Positive

 

Am I missing anything else?

 

I don't know if you slogged through this entire thread (a few pages of which were modded) but yes you are missing something: Bidding on your OWN auctions just to raise the bid is illegal. Bidding on someone else's auction with a shill bidder that you have no intention on paying with just to raise the perceived value is unethical (to say the least) especially since A) if the shill bidder wins, the seller won't get paid, and B) if a legitimate buyer is bid up by an obviously shill bidder, that buyer may (and probably will also) refuse to pay, thus no deal there either.

 

Even more egregious is what the ebay seller I linked to is doing with his fake "buy it now's" by "selling" the same book over and over again through different ebay usernames to artificially inflate the GPA average, hoping at some point a real "sucker" will come along and buy is book based on completely fabricated sales data. Yes, a buyer should always utilize due diligence when making a purchase, especially on such hyped up and speculated books such as these. But a buyer's failure to perform such an extensive amount of analysis as I have, should not automatically subject him to fraud IMO.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

In spite of the fact that there may be a "blurred", unreadable or obscured serial # on those auctions....does the GPA pick up those repeat sales of the same slab?

 

If that's the case and one particular seller keeps flipping the same comic again and again, it'd be rather easy to see.

 

If the seller had a couple of the same slabs in the same grade with different serial #'s that'd be a bit harder to pinpoint, but probably still observable with a bit more work.

 

GPA will often pick up "relists", but this particular seller is side stepping that by using different ebay accounts and flipping the book back and forth.

 

It really is quite disgusting.

 

-J.

[1904 Comics]

ahh ok. so what we're analyzing is multiple accounts = same person. same person putting increased value to manipulate GPA sales as would stock market fraud etc etc.

 

damn! thats pretty sneaky. No way ebay can control these "multiple" accounts huh?

[wardevil0]

Since eBay gets a cut of the final price, I don't think they have a lot of incentive to regulate. They get nothing for the fake sales that pump up the price, then get their slice when it finally does go to a real buyer at a higher price. They're for-profit, not for-ethics. This is not to suggest that I think eBay is bad, or complicit, or whatever, just that they don't have the motivation to expend effort on something that will not directly generate revenue and may in fact lose revenue.

 

It could of course be argued that improved regulation would make it a more respectable marketplace and thus generate more revenue from users who quit due to shenanigans, but until a competitive auction site comes along they really have not enough to gain.

[the blob]

Since eBay gets a cut of the final price, I don't think they have a lot of incentive to regulate. They get nothing for the fake sales that pump up the price, then get their slice when it finally does go to a real buyer at a higher price. They're for-profit, not for-ethics. This is not to suggest that I think eBay is bad, or complicit, or whatever, just that they don't have the motivation to expend effort on something that will not directly generate revenue and may in fact lose revenue.

 

It could of course be argued that improved regulation would make it a more respectable marketplace and thus generate more revenue from users who quit due to shenanigans, but until a competitive auction site comes along they really have not enough to gain.

 

Except when it sells to a shill bidder (or someone looking to pump up the value of their own inventory) who does not pay and the seller, not wanting to pay the fees on an unsold item, tells ebay they bailed.

 

in which case ebay would have collected a fee had a "real bidder" won.

 

case in point, one of the examples in this thread (i won't say which) is a very legit seller who "got" a nice final auction figure only to not get paid by the bidder (he told me so). I assume he is not going to eat the fees on this.

[wardevil0]

True, but the actual expense incurred by eBay for any given auction must be miniscule, and it's safe to assume that the item will be relisted until it sells. The fees for one $2k sale of an inflated MP7 would definitely compensate for a few cancelled auctions, and be a bit more than the fees from the honest sales that may have ended at $1000-1200.

[BizarroChuck]

Our resident shilling clown, "mishmashman" is still at it with his fake, GPA spiking sales of Marvel Preview 7:

 

First, he "sells" this copy (yet again), under one ebay user ID name:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Preview-7-CGC-1st-Rocket-Raccoon-only-24-copies-graded-higher-/281390402743?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item41842cccb7

 

Then, a couple of days later, under another one of his ebay user ID names he fakes another "sale":

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Preview-7-Summer-1976-Marvel-CGC-9-0-/191269367416?pt=US_Comic_Magazines&hash=item2c888aee78

 

....only to "relist" it once again the next day:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Preview-7-Summer-1976-Marvel-CGC-9-0-/191275578605?

 

 

Several pages back after mishmashman tooted his own horn for "selling" this book two days later for more than double what he paid for it to another boardie, I stated point blank that those were fraud "sales" and that we would be seeing the book for sale again in no time.

 

Unfortunately, he did not disappoint.

 

You may want to note those two ebay user ID names of his for future reference.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like the book popped up again. Different photos this time.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Preview-7-Summer-1976-Marvel-CGC-9-0-/191276249968?pt=US_Comic_Magazines&hash=item2c88f3f370

 

[HarveySwick]

I added "xmanolo85x" to the eBay Blocked User List. (thumbs u

[Jaydogrules]

Our resident shilling clown, "mishmashman" is still at it with his fake, GPA spiking sales of Marvel Preview 7:

 

First, he "sells" this copy (yet again), under one ebay user ID name:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Preview-7-CGC-1st-Rocket-Raccoon-only-24-copies-graded-higher-/281390402743?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item41842cccb7

 

Then, a couple of days later, under another one of his ebay user ID names he fakes another "sale":

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Preview-7-Summer-1976-Marvel-CGC-9-0-/191269367416?pt=US_Comic_Magazines&hash=item2c888aee78

 

....only to "relist" it once again the next day:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Preview-7-Summer-1976-Marvel-CGC-9-0-/191275578605?

 

 

Several pages back after mishmashman tooted his own horn for "selling" this book two days later for more than double what he paid for it to another boardie, I stated point blank that those were fraud "sales" and that we would be seeing the book for sale again in no time.

 

Unfortunately, he did not disappoint.

 

You may want to note those two ebay user ID names of his for future reference.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like the book popped up again. Different photos this time.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Preview-7-Summer-1976-Marvel-CGC-9-0-/191276249968?pt=US_Comic_Magazines&hash=item2c88f3f370

 

That's at least the fifth time he has listed it after "selling" it.

 

...and here's another one, same seller...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Preview-7-Summer-1976-Marvel-first-Rocket-Racoon-cgc-8-0/191258288091?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D24189%26meid%3D8846340694845199442%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D10283%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D191276249968&rt=nc

 

...all mishmashman inventory. The guy who actually said he wasn't a pump-and-dumper.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

I added "xmanolo85x" to the eBay Blocked User List. (thumbs u

 

Thanks for taking care of that Justin. (thumbs u

 

FYI another one of his many ebay Username's that he's been flipping these books to and fro is:

 

id00mzday1

 

...may want to consider adding that one as well.

 

-J.

[BizarroChuck]

I see on GPA that these sales are listed. 1 certification number. A sale on 7/31 and a sale on 8/5. This same person has it for sale again now as linked above. Can GPA remove these "sales?"

[HarveySwick]

I added "xmanolo85x" to the eBay Blocked User List. (thumbs u

 

Thanks for taking care of that Justin. (thumbs u

 

FYI another one of his many ebay Username's that he's been flipping these books to and fro is:

 

id00mzday1

 

...may want to consider adding that one as well.

 

-J.

How do you know they're BOTH his eBay accounts though?

[accessndx]

I see on GPA that these sales are listed. 1 certification number. A sale on 7/31 and a sale on 8/5. This same person has it for sale again now as linked above. Can GPA remove these "sales?"

 

Yeah I see that dubious "resale" as well. 2 business days later that slab was in someone else's hands and resold immediately?.....yeah friggin right....

You can only pull people's chain so many times before they notice.

[HarveySwick]

I see on GPA that these sales are listed. 1 certification number. A sale on 7/31 and a sale on 8/5. This same person has it for sale again now as linked above. Can GPA remove these "sales?"

Chuck, PM gpanalysis with a link to this thread. Maybe give him a little break down of what you guy's have found. (thumbs u

[Jaydogrules]

I added "xmanolo85x" to the eBay Blocked User List. (thumbs u

 

Thanks for taking care of that Justin. (thumbs u

 

FYI another one of his many ebay Username's that he's been flipping these books to and fro is:

 

id00mzday1

 

...may want to consider adding that one as well.

 

-J.

How do you know they're BOTH his eBay accounts though?

 

By a PM from another boardie who dealt with him under that specific ebay ID.

 

And no, these books have never once actually been sold to anybody. Every single "buy it now" for this book, or "best offer accepted" under those two ebay user ID's have been fake.

 

-J.

[HarveySwick]

I'll add the other name as well. (thumbs u

[ItsJustRyan]

[ComicLock-migration]

To me it looks like xmanolo85x is the shiller I have contacted him multiple times for additional photos with no success. I understand it is easy to just say it is Idoomzi or whatever but the amount of shilling you are talking about does not look like it is one user at all. Mishmashmans ebay has had one MP 7 offered for sell I think it is outrageous to light the pitch forks and go to his door. His sold he received feedback just my 2 cents.

[HarveySwick]

Maybe there is someone that has dealt with both eBay sellers and has confirmed they're both mishmashman.