Suicide Squad movie coming 2 2

[jsilverjanet]

Down 69% this weekend according to deadline. Can't escape rancid reviews forever

 

I know you secretly love this movie. Just come out and say it already. Trust me, you'll feel better in the morning.

[JayT]

I don't know if it's shocking, Transformers always does that.

[Bosco685]

I don't know if it's shocking, Transformers always does that.

 

This isn't Transformers, with a worldwide recognized toy brand. This is some throwaway group of characters that only 'fanboys' could appreciate.

 

[Bosco685]

Like Aquaman likes to sing...

 

 

Aquaman's Rousing Song of Heroism

 

[Hulksdaddy1]

Like Aquaman likes to sing...

 

 

Aquaman's Rousing Song of Heroism

 

 

If only SS was as good as this!

 

[JayT]

I don't know if it's shocking, Transformers always does that.

 

This isn't Transformers, with a worldwide recognized toy brand. This is some throwaway group of characters that only 'fanboys' could appreciate.

 

 

I get what you are saying but don't know about that. Sure, nobody knows what Suicide Squad is but Transformers is a worldwide recognized brand *again* because of the films. While that franchise pre-films, was definitely a lot stronger than say G.I. Joe was, Transformers was basically just a popular franchise from the 80s that were still selling boutique high price collectible toys for awhile, even amidst very minor other projects were occurring during the meantime.

 

Suicide Squad was marketed really well, the trailers were all impressive and has one of the biggest studios in the world marketing it as a blockbuster that stars Will Smith and has Batman in it. If there were any hinderances to it, it would probably be the less that expected turnout for BvS because I think if BSs was that billion + movie with even midling reviews, Suicide Squad might have been even bigger (even bigger than it is now, which is really impressive on its own IMHO) given that Batman is in it.

[Bosco685]

I get what you are saying but don't know about that. Sure, nobody knows what Suicide Squad is but Transformers is a worldwide recognized brand *again* because of the films.

While that franchise pre-films, was definitely a lot stronger than say G.I. Joe was, Transformers was basically just a popular franchise from the 80s that were still selling boutique high price collectible toys for awhile, even amidst very minor other projects were occurring during the meantime.

 

Suicide Squad was marketed really well, the trailers were all impressive and has one of the biggest studios in the world marketing it as a blockbuster that stars Will Smith and has Batman in it. If there were any hinderances to it, it would probably be the less that expected turnout for BvS because I think if BSs was that billion + movie with even midling reviews, Suicide Squad might have been even bigger (even bigger than it is now, which is really impressive on its own IMHO) given that Batman is in it.

 

You are forgetting about the Generation 1 80's animated TV series that put this brand on the map. It was not only massive in the USA, but also Japan and the UK. Which helped expand awareness of these toys that Hasbro created after seeing designs from other Japanese companies.

 

I wouldn't assume decades of fan buildup is equal to a year or less of movie marketing. Two vastly distinct brands, with Transformers having a built-in strong foundation.

[JayT]

I get what you are saying but don't know about that. Sure, nobody knows what Suicide Squad is but Transformers is a worldwide recognized brand *again* because of the films.

While that franchise pre-films, was definitely a lot stronger than say G.I. Joe was, Transformers was basically just a popular franchise from the 80s that were still selling boutique high price collectible toys for awhile, even amidst very minor other projects were occurring during the meantime.

 

Suicide Squad was marketed really well, the trailers were all impressive and has one of the biggest studios in the world marketing it as a blockbuster that stars Will Smith and has Batman in it. If there were any hinderances to it, it would probably be the less that expected turnout for BvS because I think if BSs was that billion + movie with even midling reviews, Suicide Squad might have been even bigger (even bigger than it is now, which is really impressive on its own IMHO) given that Batman is in it.

 

You are forgetting about the Generation 1 80's animated TV series that put this brand on the map. It was not only massive in the USA, but also Japan and the UK. Which helped expand awareness of these toys that Hasbro created after seeing designs from other Japanese companies.

 

 

 

I wouldn't assume decades of fan buildup is equal to a year or less of movie marketing. Two vastly distinct brands, with Transformers having a built-in strong foundation.

 

I'm not forgetting about G1 TF, I was a huge fan, but that franchise was dead or at least belonging to another generation. TF is big again because Bay made billion dollar films, that yes, certainly covets international fandom and got them. It was certainly a popular brand at one point, but entering the 2000s it was just and old franchise much in the way something like He-Man, G.I. Joe, Carebears. etc was or is. It was like G.I. Joe is now, to a lesser degree admittedly, where old middle aged men were buying overpriced toys and attending conventions.

 

I'm Japanese, I'm well aware of Transformers penetration in Japan, but it certainly was not something in demand before those films came back, it had been replaced, as many things are, as the one thing about the Japanese is that they seem to be able to create new things for the next generation of kid. Even Macross was still more relevant pre-films in Japan.

 

I'm not at all arguing that Transformers wasn't once popular, it certainly was but the difference between Transformers and others '80s properties right now is that Bay made movies people came out to see and were incredible financial successes even if that old core doesn't really like the new movies (much in the way Trek is IMHO).

 

 

 

[Gatsby77]

JayT's right here.

 

Although the team itself was largely unknown, Suicide Squad had a _much_ stronger brand from the jump -- with Batman, The Joker, Will Smith, and Oscar heavyweights Jared Leto and Viola Davis, than did Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

The closest Guardians of the Galaxy came to that trifecta of star power was that Rocket Raccoon was voiced by a pre-American Sniper Bradley Cooper.

[JayT]

Viola Davis. Fantastic.

[rjrjr]

JayT's right here.

 

Although the team itself was largely unknown, Suicide Squad had a _much_ stronger brand from the jump -- with Batman, The Joker, Will Smith, and Oscar heavyweights Jared Leto and Viola Davis, than did Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

The closest Guardians of the Galaxy came to that trifecta of star power was that Rocket Raccoon was voiced by a pre-American Sniper Bradley Cooper.

 

I thought JayT was comparing Suicide Squad to Transformers? There goes that pesky goal post moving again.

Edited August 13, 2016 by rjrjr

[JayT]

JayT's right here.

 

Although the team itself was largely unknown, Suicide Squad had a _much_ stronger brand from the jump -- with Batman, The Joker, Will Smith, and Oscar heavyweights Jared Leto and Viola Davis, than did Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

The closest Guardians of the Galaxy came to that trifecta of star power was that Rocket Raccoon was voiced by a pre-American Sniper Bradley Cooper.

 

I thought JayT was comparing Suicide Squad to Transformers? There goes that pesky goal post moving again.

 

I also mentioned, and I think the angle he's tackling is that Suicide Squad has/had a lot going for it in terms or marketing a blockbuster film. You tell me Batman and Joker are going ito be in a movie with Will Smith and hot Margot Robbie, debuting a very popular Deadpoolish next-gen type of character, that's not nothing to sneeze at, especially when considering that DC/WB cuts really great trailers (minus the Doomsday drop IMHO).

 

I didn't mention Guardians in that context but I will agree if taken on their own Suicide Squad had more going for in its parts than Guardians pre-release, excluding the elephant in the room, that I think many underestimated at the tie, was the tremendous goodwill Marvel had catered with movie goers, not just fans of the comics with their other films. For that reason, it's why I mentioned that I think it would have been even bigger than it is already is if BvS performed to expectations.

 

I do think Suicide Squad doing well makes people even more open to Wonder Woman, though admittedly I think that's a project that will have built in good will, and that trailer is kind of badass. I was sold on Gal from jump but I couldn't have imagined that the trailer would look that good, IMHO beyond expectations.

 

I think people forget that pre-release people were making fun of Guaridans, "talking tree and a raccoon" etc etc. As an aside, it's up there among my favorite super hero films, thought it was fantastic.

[Bosco685]

I get what you are saying but don't know about that. Sure, nobody knows what Suicide Squad is but Transformers is a worldwide recognized brand *again* because of the films.

While that franchise pre-films, was definitely a lot stronger than say G.I. Joe was, Transformers was basically just a popular franchise from the 80s that were still selling boutique high price collectible toys for awhile, even amidst very minor other projects were occurring during the meantime.

 

Suicide Squad was marketed really well, the trailers were all impressive and has one of the biggest studios in the world marketing it as a blockbuster that stars Will Smith and has Batman in it. If there were any hinderances to it, it would probably be the less that expected turnout for BvS because I think if BSs was that billion + movie with even midling reviews, Suicide Squad might have been even bigger (even bigger than it is now, which is really impressive on its own IMHO) given that Batman is in it.

 

You are forgetting about the Generation 1 80's animated TV series that put this brand on the map. It was not only massive in the USA, but also Japan and the UK. Which helped expand awareness of these toys that Hasbro created after seeing designs from other Japanese companies.

 

 

 

I wouldn't assume decades of fan buildup is equal to a year or less of movie marketing. Two vastly distinct brands, with Transformers having a built-in strong foundation.

 

I'm not forgetting about G1 TF, I was a huge fan, but that franchise was dead or at least belonging to another generation. TF is big again because Bay made billion dollar films, that yes, certainly covets international fandom and got them. It was certainly a popular brand at one point, but entering the 2000s it was just and old franchise much in the way something like He-Man, G.I. Joe, Carebears. etc was or is. It was like G.I. Joe is now, to a lesser degree admittedly, where old middle aged men were buying overpriced toys and attending conventions.

 

I'm Japanese, I'm well aware of Transformers penetration in Japan, but it certainly was not something in demand before those films came back, it had been replaced, as many things are, as the one thing about the Japanese is that they seem to be able to create new things for the next generation of kid. Even Macross was still more relevant pre-films in Japan.

 

 

I'm not at all arguing that Transformers wasn't once popular, it certainly was but the difference between Transformers and others '80s properties right now is that Bay made movies people came out to see and were incredible financial successes even if that old core doesn't really like the new movies (much in the way Trek is IMHO).

 

You can compare Suicide Squad to whatever you like. But the similarity of the comparison was what I was pointing out as not lining up.

 

Transformers had some form of animated production from 1985 to present, to include Transformers: Armada that was launched from Japan in 2002. So where you and I may assume Transformers had become close to a dead universe franchise, it was always there in some form even outside of comic books. Even right before the first 2007 CGI/live movie. They were just out of sight/out of mind for those not fanatical over Transformers.

 

Why do you think they used Peter Cullen as the voice actor of Optimus Prime? Because there are so many folks that instantly recognize that voice.

[Gatsby77]

This. What JayT said.

 

I was responding primarily to Bosco's:

 

This isn't Transformers, with a worldwide recognized toy brand. This is some throwaway group of characters that only 'fanboys' could appreciate.

 

To me, the parallel to Guardians is clear because it was _exactly_ a "throwaway group of characters that only 'fanboys' could appreciate."

 

Despite that, a huge reason Suicide Squad opened on more screens than Guardians is its heavy duty star power in Batman, The Joker, Jared Leto, and Viola Davis (who has an Oscar, a Tony, an Emmy & headlines one of the best TV shows of the last 5 years).

 

Those four elements bring much more box office cache (and "worldwide recognized brand") among the general public than does the first big-screen appearance Harley Quinn, regardless of how hot Margot Robbie is.

[Bosco685]

And yet even if it experiences the high-end of a decline, it still breaks $400 MM worldwide by its second weekend. Pretty shocking for a movie that was 'destroyed' by the critics.

 

The Hollywood Reporter: Weekend Update

 

However, holdover Suicide Squad should easily win the weekend overall, although everyone will be watching to see how much it declines from its August-best $133.7 million opening last weekend. According to first projections, the Warner Bros. and DC title could earn anywhere from $41 million to $48 million in its sophomore outing, a 64 percent to 69 percent decline. Globally, the anti-superhero film should easily cross the $400 million mark over the weekend.

 

Box Office Guru is forecasting based on Friday results Suicide Squad will land in the middle of the weekend forecast ($45 MM).

 

[Bosco685]

This. What JayT said.

 

I was responding primarily to Bosco's:

 

This isn't Transformers, with a worldwide recognized toy brand. This is some throwaway group of characters that only 'fanboys' could appreciate.

 

 

To me, the parallel to Guardians is clear because it was _exactly_ a "throwaway group of characters that only 'fanboys' could appreciate."

 

Despite that, a huge reason Suicide Squad opened on more screens than Guardians is its heavy duty star power in Batman, The Joker, Jared Leto, and Viola Davis (who has an Oscar, a Tony, an Emmy & headlines one of the best TV shows of the last 5 years).

 

Those four elements bring much more box office cache (and "worldwide recognized brand") among the general public than does the first big-screen appearance Harley Quinn, regardless of how hot Margot Robbie is.

 

Guardians is the better comparison. Although what Marvel Studios did was push the message early on these characters were coming from the same studio that brought you Iron Man, Thor, Captain America and The Avengers. So they wisely used that box office good will to ease people into these characters.

 

Unfortunately, DC/Warner didn't tie its DCEU to the Nolan Dark Knight trilogy, and had to go with the responses to Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. Which were divided and questioned. And yet the movie is still cooking along despite its critical response.

 

If anything, I hope Warner Bros. picks up on the fact if it had really nailed a solid story where even the critics were singing its praises, they could have a monster of a hit on its hands. So despite its editing and story handling, it will still be a decent box office success. Crazy!

[JayT]

I get what you are saying but don't know about that. Sure, nobody knows what Suicide Squad is but Transformers is a worldwide recognized brand *again* because of the films.

While that franchise pre-films, was definitely a lot stronger than say G.I. Joe was, Transformers was basically just a popular franchise from the 80s that were still selling boutique high price collectible toys for awhile, even amidst very minor other projects were occurring during the meantime.

 

Suicide Squad was marketed really well, the trailers were all impressive and has one of the biggest studios in the world marketing it as a blockbuster that stars Will Smith and has Batman in it. If there were any hinderances to it, it would probably be the less that expected turnout for BvS because I think if BSs was that billion + movie with even midling reviews, Suicide Squad might have been even bigger (even bigger than it is now, which is really impressive on its own IMHO) given that Batman is in it.

 

You are forgetting about the Generation 1 80's animated TV series that put this brand on the map. It was not only massive in the USA, but also Japan and the UK. Which helped expand awareness of these toys that Hasbro created after seeing designs from other Japanese companies.

 

 

 

I wouldn't assume decades of fan buildup is equal to a year or less of movie marketing. Two vastly distinct brands, with Transformers having a built-in strong foundation.

 

I'm not forgetting about G1 TF, I was a huge fan, but that franchise was dead or at least belonging to another generation. TF is big again because Bay made billion dollar films, that yes, certainly covets international fandom and got them. It was certainly a popular brand at one point, but entering the 2000s it was just and old franchise much in the way something like He-Man, G.I. Joe, Carebears. etc was or is. It was like G.I. Joe is now, to a lesser degree admittedly, where old middle aged men were buying overpriced toys and attending conventions.

 

I'm Japanese, I'm well aware of Transformers penetration in Japan, but it certainly was not something in demand before those films came back, it had been replaced, as many things are, as the one thing about the Japanese is that they seem to be able to create new things for the next generation of kid. Even Macross was still more relevant pre-films in Japan.

 

 

I'm not at all arguing that Transformers wasn't once popular, it certainly was but the difference between Transformers and others '80s properties right now is that Bay made movies people came out to see and were incredible financial successes even if that old core doesn't really like the new movies (much in the way Trek is IMHO).

 

You can compare Suicide Squad to whatever you like. But the similarity of the comparison was what I was pointing out as not lining up.

 

Transformers had some form of animated production from 1985 to present, to include Transformers: Armada that was launched from Japan in 2002. So where you and I may assume Transformers had become close to a dead universe franchise, it was always there in some form even outside of comic books. Even right before the first 2007 CGI/live movie. They were just out of sight/out of mind for those not fanatical over Transformers.

 

Why do you think they used Peter Cullen as the voice actor of Optimus Prime? Because there are so many folks that instantly recognize that voice.

 

They were not going to use Cullen at first, but it made sense to, because really who cares? Nobody remembers a second of dialogue in these films.

 

I'm trying to say this in a way that makes sense. Yes, Transformers, much like many properties existed in some form for years after its prime, like many of the properties I mentioned already, but for a lack of a better term if wasn't hot on the street. Nobody knows what Armada is, and hell most people don't even know about anything post-G1, even though some of that stuff (in Japan) is even better IMHO.

 

We can't act like Transformers was Star Wars, or even a step below, and remember Hasbro BOMBED both the animated films (it and G.I. Joe) , and shelved everything - the animated movie LOST money, even though I view it as a classic and have fond memories of it.

 

Not many people cared about Transformers, in the same way that I'm a G.I. Joe fan and I don't view Renegades or Resolute or IDW printing G.I. Joe comics as markers that this is a hot brand people care about. It would be like if a blockbuster Joe movie came out all of the sudden, and I used Renegades as an example that this was a brand people cared about. No, like most things, it merely existed. Given the same thought process, why isn't G.I. Joe gigantic and a billion dollar franchise?

 

Transformers is a worldwide brand again because of those movies. And as much mess as Bay gets, he made this thing into a monster again.

 

 

[JayT]

Guardians is a better comparison (and a better film IMHO), and I wasn't comparing SS with TF, I was merely stating that films don't need critics to be blockbusters. TF is panned, will be panned, and will make a billion worldwide in its sleep. Much like the DC films of late, there is some foresight being used assuming a negative critical outlook.

 

It's a pretty indisputable fact. They are panned, they make a ton.

[Bosco685]

They were not going to use Cullen at first, but it made sense to, because really who cares? Nobody remembers a second of dialogue in these films.

 

 

I'm trying to say this in a way that makes sense. Yes, Transformers, much like many properties existed in some form for years after its prime, like many of the properties I mentioned already, but for a lack of a better term if wasn't hot on the street. Nobody knows what Armada is, and hell most people don't even know about anything post-G1, even though some of that stuff (in Japan) is even better IMHO.

 

We can't act like Transformers was Star Wars, or even a step below, and remember Hasbro BOMBED both the animated films (it and G.I. Joe) , and shelved everything - the animated movie LOST money, even though I view it as a classic and have fond memories of it.

 

Not many people cared about Transformers, in the same way that I'm a G.I. Joe fan and I don't view Renegades or Resolute or IDW printing G.I. Joe comics as markers that this is a hot brand people care about. It would be like if a blockbuster Joe movie came out all of the sudden, and I used Renegades as an example that this was a brand people cared about. No, like most things, it merely existed. Given the same thought process, why isn't G.I. Joe gigantic and a billion dollar franchise?

 

Transformers is a worldwide brand again because of those movies. And as much mess as Bay gets, he made this thing into a monster again.

 

The massive Transformers fanbase that overwhelmed Michael Bay with Cullen's recommendation.

 

'Transformers' Fans Wanted Peter Cullen — Not Clooney — To Voice Optimus Prime

 

When Michael Bay began work on his "Transformers" movie, he was inundated with requests to have Cullen return as Optimus Prime, the tough-talking leader of the Autobots he voiced in the '80s TV show. And sure enough, when Bay announced Cullen's participation at Comic-Con, the crowd went berserk.

 

 

 

But I do agree. Transformers is not Star Wars.

[JayT]

They were not going to use Cullen at first, but it made sense to, because really who cares? Nobody remembers a second of dialogue in these films.

 

 

I'm trying to say this in a way that makes sense. Yes, Transformers, much like many properties existed in some form for years after its prime, like many of the properties I mentioned already, but for a lack of a better term if wasn't hot on the street. Nobody knows what Armada is, and hell most people don't even know about anything post-G1, even though some of that stuff (in Japan) is even better IMHO.

 

We can't act like Transformers was Star Wars, or even a step below, and remember Hasbro BOMBED both the animated films (it and G.I. Joe) , and shelved everything - the animated movie LOST money, even though I view it as a classic and have fond memories of it.

 

Not many people cared about Transformers, in the same way that I'm a G.I. Joe fan and I don't view Renegades or Resolute or IDW printing G.I. Joe comics as markers that this is a hot brand people care about. It would be like if a blockbuster Joe movie came out all of the sudden, and I used Renegades as an example that this was a brand people cared about. No, like most things, it merely existed. Given the same thought process, why isn't G.I. Joe gigantic and a billion dollar franchise?

 

Transformers is a worldwide brand again because of those movies. And as much mess as Bay gets, he made this thing into a monster again.

 

The massive Transformers fanbase that overwhelmed Michael Bay with Cullen's recommendation.

 

'Transformers' Fans Wanted Peter Cullen — Not Clooney — To Voice Optimus Prime

 

When Michael Bay began work on his "Transformers" movie, he was inundated with requests to have Cullen return as Optimus Prime, the tough-talking leader of the Autobots he voiced in the '80s TV show. And sure enough, when Bay announced Cullen's participation at Comic-Con, the crowd went berserk.

 

 

 

But I do agree. Transformers is not Star Wars.

 

Yeah like I said, they were not going to use him. People who go "berserk" are fringe extremist fans, you can find those for things like Black Mask or this week's crazy people thing, Steven Universe fans. Normal movie goers don't care about stuff like that, not to a tune of a billion at the box office. Obviously if you go to a con panel you are dealing with the upper crust of fanatics. That's what people do, as we can see with weekly twitter tirades by fans over everything.

 

If he wasn't cast, the movie would not have flopped, it didn't matter.