• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

1st Teen Titans
3 3

Started by HighStakesComics,

1,128 posts in this topic

sfcityduck

sfcityduck

Posted
Posted

 

And other people are going to look at what's actually in that issue and say, "Where the hell is the phrase 'Teen Titans'? When do they decide to form a super-team? When do they actually form it?" And they'll realize, oh, mess, this is a prototype or something.

 

Teen Titan collectors, folks who actually read BB 54 and 60, have known forever the relationship between 54 and 60 and that 54 is the origin and first appearance without naming the team. What you're hung up on is a pretty simple concept: A team can be formed without a name.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
yoddler

yoddler

Posted
Posted

 

Not according to Robin, who says the team formed after B&B 54.

 

 

That's not what Robin says. That you have to make stuff up doesn't support your argument.

 

Let's go to the videotape.

 

 

brave-and-the-bold-060-0007_zps5fc26409.jpg

 

So, try again.

 

Oh, and still waiting for you to identify where in B&B 54 the Teen Titans first appears. Or are you really claiming that a text box after the story is their first appearance?

 

The video tape shows you misquoted Robin. He says that team was set up after "Kid Flash, Aqualad and I helped the teenagers of Hatton Corners."

 

And the conclusion of the adventure at Hatton Corners states: "A startling new team of DC heroes has triumphed!"

 

This all does fit quite nicely with what DC said in the very first reprint of BB 54 and what it has said for the past 20 years of the BB 54 reprints in Archives, Showcase, on-line, and, I think you'll see next month, in the 50 Anniversary book.

 

I'm going to say this for what I'm sure won't be the last time. I acknowledge that the universe at large, including corporate DC, considers B&B 54 the first appearance of the Teen Titans. Okay? My argument is that I think this will change once people realize that people like you can point to no single panel in 54 where the team is formed, let alone named. And when they realize that you simply make stuff up. For instance, you claim I misquoted Robin. First of all, I didn't quote him at all. So, you made that up. Second, I paraphrased him accurately--he says he set up the Teen Titans after helping the teenagers of Hatton Corners, which, as the asterisked footnote you omitted tells us, occurred in B&B 54. So, you made that up, too.

 

And here's the thing, I don't need you to agree with me. You can even keep making stuff up if you want. You've made up the notion that anyone said anything about the trademark for the "Teen Titans" name when no one did. You've made up the idea that a text box at the conclusion of a story somehow established the creation of a brand new super-team. You've made up claims about what I say.

 

Now, despite all that, some people are going to agree with you and say, "Hell, yeah, 54 is the first appearance of the Teen Titans! I love the part of their first appearance where the editor says, 'has triumphed!'"

 

And other people are going to look at what's actually in that issue and say, "Where the hell is the phrase 'Teen Titans'? When do they decide to form a super-team? When do they actually form it?" And they'll realize, oh, mess, this is a prototype or something.

 

I'm betting that the evidence I and others have put forward (like, actual in-continuity story panels in which Robin tells us things) will eventually overcome both the acknowledged current consensus in favor of 54 as well as the meta-textual evidence you've put forward (like, ambiguously worded editorial captions after the story ends).

 

Still waiting for that page or panel the excited new owner of B&B 54 can turn to to revel in the awesome first appearance of the Teen Titans.

 

You act like all this evidence is "new" -- as if you've suddenly discovered all of this amazing information -- but the hard truth is NOTHING you've shown is new. NOTHING you're basing your OPINION regarding BB54 is new. But the industry, the dealers, the actual publisher and owner of the Teen Titans all agree AND HAVE FOR DECADES, that BB54 is the first appearance and origin of the Teen Titans. And guess what, they've seen all the stuff you've seen... and they still choose BB54.

 

Sorry, but DC has made it crystal clear their position is that BB54 is the first appearance and origin of the Teen Titans. And if I had to chose between the PUBLISHER or the opinion of a few posters in a forum with questionable motives... I go with my position -- a position based in STORY and HISTORY backed by the people who created and printed the very books in question, backed by the leaders in the collecting industry, backed by the owners of the very board where you've chosen to voice your opinion:

 

BB54 is the first appearance and origin of the Teen Titans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
yoddler

yoddler

Posted
Posted
It's hard argue motive while one of the books in question is in your sig line. The fact of the matter is DC made statements within the early reprints of these issues that directly contradict what they are using to pimp their $1.99 digital reprints today.

 

I'm going the say this again for like the fourth or fifth time: I OWN BOTH BOOKS. Would you like me to take a picture of them both with today's newspaper? lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Petey's Wheatcake

Petey's Wheatcake

Posted
Posted
So is BB 54 or BB 60 the first Teen Titans?

 

This was the original question.

 

There can be no other answer than BB 60. The name Teen Titans did not exist prior to this. Despite 36 pages of evidence to the contrary, there is nothing to be debated here. The first time a group of heroes is referred to as the "Teen Titans" is BB 60. Question answered. Problem solved.

 

What can be argued is whether the answer to this question matters or not. Maybe only "people who collect trademarks" care about such silly nonsense as official team names. Maybe BB 54 is the more important book, and maybe it will always be the more valuable book.

 

Those are fun things to debate, but they are entirely separate discussions which have no bearing on the original question. Maybe the group of heroes that eventually went on to refer to themselves as the Teen Titans first appeared together in BB 54. Okay. That can be debated (although it is debatable due to Robin's use of the word "after" and most importantly - Wonder Girl). Doesn't change the fact that the Teen Titans did not exist until BB 60. Maybe a team existed, but the Teen Titans did not.

 

I think sfcityduck makes some great points regarding the formation of the team, and the only obvious inaccuracy in his statements is when he refers to BB 60 as the second appearance of the Teen Titans. That's impossible due to the fact that the name did not even exist until that issue.

 

As a Titans collector, I think 54 is a must have issue. If I could only have one? That's an extremely tough call, but I think I would have to choose 54 over 60. I'm probably biased because it's always been the more sought after issue, but I also really enjoy that particular story. This, of course, is a matter of opinion. But almost everything debated in this thread has been a matter of opinion presented as fact.

 

The official team name matters because comic collectors love the details. Minutiae matters in this hobby, and to be fair, this is a fairly significant point. It also matters because of $$$, but money has been an extremely important part of comic book collecting for as long as I've been alive. This should come as no surprise, and it's not really as nefarious an aspect of this hobby as some would lead us to believe.

 

You can always collect whatever floats your particular boat, regardless of value, CGC labels, etc.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
yoddler

yoddler

Posted
Posted (edited)
I'm not the one questioning your motives, Sir. You are the one who has to fall back on that argument. I've got the title, concept, footnotes & history to fall back on. I will concede you have an ad to sell $2 digital comics.

 

Didn't you say you were currently hoarding BB60? hm

 

Would also like to add that I too have concept, footnotes and history to fall back on... and an ad to sell $2 digital comics... lol

Edited by yoddler
Link to comment
Share on other sites
yoddler

yoddler

Posted
Posted
So is BB 54 or BB 60 the first Teen Titans?

 

This was the original question.

 

There can be no other answer than BB 60. The name Teen Titans did not exist prior to this. Despite 36 pages of evidence to the contrary, there is nothing to be debated here. The first time a group of heroes is referred to as the "Teen Titans" is BB 60. Question answered. Problem solved.

 

What can be argued is whether the answer to this question matters or not. Maybe only "people who collect trademarks" care about such silly nonsense as official team names. Maybe BB 54 is the more important book, and maybe it will always be the more valuable book.

 

Those are fun things to debate, but they are entirely separate discussions which have no bearing on the original question. Maybe the group of heroes that eventually went on to refer to themselves as the Teen Titans first appeared together in BB 54. Okay. That can be debated (although it is debatable due to Robin's use of the word "after" and most importantly - Wonder Girl). Doesn't change the fact that the Teen Titans did not exist until BB 60. Maybe a team existed, but the Teen Titans did not.

 

I think sfcityduck makes some great points regarding the formation of the team, and the only obvious inaccuracy in his statements is when he refers to BB 60 as the second appearance of the Teen Titans. That's impossible due to the fact that the name did not even exist until that issue.

 

As a Titans collector, I think 54 is a must have issue. If I could only have one? That's an extremely tough call, but I think I would have to choose 54 over 60. I'm probably biased because it's always been the more sought after issue, but I also really enjoy that particular story. This, of course, is a matter of opinion. But almost everything debated in this thread has been a matter of opinion presented as fact.

 

The official team name matters because comic collectors love the details. Minutiae matters in this hobby, and to be fair, this is a fairly significant point. It also matters because of $$$, but money has been an extremely important part of comic book collecting for as long as I've been alive. This should come as no surprise, and it's not really as nefarious an aspect of this hobby as some would lead us to believe.

 

You can always collect whatever floats your particular boat, regardless of value, CGC labels, etc.

 

 

This is a great post. And it's a better conversation than the one we've been having!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
yoddler

yoddler

Posted
Posted
I still have the same two copies I mentioned earlier. If I'm hoarding I'm doing a poor job of it.

 

Huh. I could have sworn I read a post where you said you were looking for as many copies of BB60 as you could find...

 

Ah well, wouldn't be the first time someone's attempted revisionist history, eh? lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites
thunsicker

thunsicker

Posted
Posted (edited)
So is BB 54 or BB 60 the first Teen Titans?

 

This was the original question.

 

There can be no other answer than BB 60. The name Teen Titans did not exist prior to this. Despite 36 pages of evidence to the contrary, there is nothing to be debated here. The first time a group of heroes is referred to as the "Teen Titans" is BB 60. Question answered. Problem solved.

 

What can be argued is whether the answer to this question matters or not. Maybe only "people who collect trademarks" care about such silly nonsense as official team names. Maybe BB 54 is the more important book, and maybe it will always be the more valuable book.

 

Those are fun things to debate, but they are entirely separate discussions which have no bearing on the original question. Maybe the group of heroes that eventually went on to refer to themselves as the Teen Titans first appeared together in BB 54. Okay. That can be debated (although it is debatable due to Robin's use of the word "after" and most importantly - Wonder Girl). Doesn't change the fact that the Teen Titans did not exist until BB 60. Maybe a team existed, but the Teen Titans did not.

 

I think sfcityduck makes some great points regarding the formation of the team, and the only obvious inaccuracy in his statements is when he refers to BB 60 as the second appearance of the Teen Titans. That's impossible due to the fact that the name did not even exist until that issue.

 

As a Titans collector, I think 54 is a must have issue. If I could only have one? That's an extremely tough call, but I think I would have to choose 54 over 60. I'm probably biased because it's always been the more sought after issue, but I also really enjoy that particular story. This, of course, is a matter of opinion. But almost everything debated in this thread has been a matter of opinion presented as fact.

 

The official team name matters because comic collectors love the details. Minutiae matters in this hobby, and to be fair, this is a fairly significant point. It also matters because of $$$, but money has been an extremely important part of comic book collecting for as long as I've been alive. This should come as no surprise, and it's not really as nefarious an aspect of this hobby as some would lead us to believe.

 

You can always collect whatever floats your particular boat, regardless of value, CGC labels, etc.

 

 

This is a great post. And it's a better conversation than the one we've been having!

 

But perhaps beside the point. The question is not where the name The Teen Titans first appeared it is where the Teen Titans first appeared. If you are interested in the Chicago Cubs history you don't say they started in 1902 when the news papers coined the name "Cubs" or in 1907 when they officially took the name The Chicago Cubs. They were a team before that with a different name (The Chicago White Stockings) since 1876.

 

EIDT: Oh and yoddler I'd love to see scans of you two teen titans books. :cloud9: You don't even need to include the newspaper for me.

Edited by thunsicker
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JTLarsen

JTLarsen

Posted
Posted

 

Still waiting for that page or panel the excited new owner of B&B 54 can turn to to revel in the awesome first appearance of the Teen Titans.

 

You must be young. It's a story. You have to read the whole story to see the origin of the team. This is not ADD land. They first appear in a panel together on p. 3, and by the end of the story they have learned the value of working together.

 

I'm 48, so your track record of perception and making false statements remains unbroken.

 

And note that I said "first appearance" and you said "origin." Are you SURE you're not in ADD land?

 

I look forward to seeing some day a CGC label on B&B 54 that notes "FIrst appearance of Robin, Kid Flash and Aqualad learning the value of working together."

Link to comment
Share on other sites
yoddler

yoddler

Posted
Posted
So is BB 54 or BB 60 the first Teen Titans?

 

This was the original question.

 

There can be no other answer than BB 60. The name Teen Titans did not exist prior to this. Despite 36 pages of evidence to the contrary, there is nothing to be debated here. The first time a group of heroes is referred to as the "Teen Titans" is BB 60. Question answered. Problem solved.

 

What can be argued is whether the answer to this question matters or not. Maybe only "people who collect trademarks" care about such silly nonsense as official team names. Maybe BB 54 is the more important book, and maybe it will always be the more valuable book.

 

Those are fun things to debate, but they are entirely separate discussions which have no bearing on the original question. Maybe the group of heroes that eventually went on to refer to themselves as the Teen Titans first appeared together in BB 54. Okay. That can be debated (although it is debatable due to Robin's use of the word "after" and most importantly - Wonder Girl). Doesn't change the fact that the Teen Titans did not exist until BB 60. Maybe a team existed, but the Teen Titans did not.

 

I think sfcityduck makes some great points regarding the formation of the team, and the only obvious inaccuracy in his statements is when he refers to BB 60 as the second appearance of the Teen Titans. That's impossible due to the fact that the name did not even exist until that issue.

 

As a Titans collector, I think 54 is a must have issue. If I could only have one? That's an extremely tough call, but I think I would have to choose 54 over 60. I'm probably biased because it's always been the more sought after issue, but I also really enjoy that particular story. This, of course, is a matter of opinion. But almost everything debated in this thread has been a matter of opinion presented as fact.

 

The official team name matters because comic collectors love the details. Minutiae matters in this hobby, and to be fair, this is a fairly significant point. It also matters because of $$$, but money has been an extremely important part of comic book collecting for as long as I've been alive. This should come as no surprise, and it's not really as nefarious an aspect of this hobby as some would lead us to believe.

 

You can always collect whatever floats your particular boat, regardless of value, CGC labels, etc.

 

 

This is a great post. And it's a better conversation than the one we've been having!

 

But perhaps beside the point. The question is not where the name The Teen Titans first appeared it is where the Teen Titans first appeared. If you are interested in the Chicago Cubs history you don't say they started in 1902 when the news papers coined the name "Cubs" or in 1907 when they officially took the name The Chicago Cubs. They were a team before that with a different name (The Chicago White Stockings) since 1876.

 

Yes, and I agree with you!

 

I just like the tenor and focus that conversation more than the splitting hairs over the same points ad nauseum we've been having... You can tell his POV is that of a collector, whereas this feels more like speculators gone wild... lol

 

If this debate could have only been had in a bubble without the fact that the Teen Titans have been a hot property of late, I'd be less inclined to question motivations... Still for the most part, this thread has been civil and interesting, but not necessarily in the way I think each side had hoped it would be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JTLarsen

JTLarsen

Posted
Posted
Fair enough, but missing the point, I think. I concede that B&B 60, which includes a direct reference to events in and after 54, could not have been published exactly the same way without 54. Could it EASILY have been published without that reference and still been virtually identical? Yeah.

 

You're also missing my point: HISTORY states that the reason DC went ahead and published BB60 is because of the positive reception it received from BB54. 54 begat 60. There is a direct correlation and connection between these two books.

 

Could someone have independently decided hey, let's do a teen sidekick book and call it "Tween Titans" or "Prepubescent Titans" without BB54? Um, yeah they could have. (hint: they didn't). DC could have also published a book about a walking tree and a talking raccoon...

 

Right. But since they could have, then BB54 isn't a prerequisite for BB60. I'm not exactly sure why we're arguing about this. I'm perfectly comfortable with anyone arguing that BB54 is a precursor, or part of the story, or part of the origin or whatever. I, too, think it's an important book. It just doesn't have the first appearance of the Teen Titans in it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JTLarsen

JTLarsen

Posted
Posted

 

And other people are going to look at what's actually in that issue and say, "Where the hell is the phrase 'Teen Titans'? When do they decide to form a super-team? When do they actually form it?" And they'll realize, oh, mess, this is a prototype or something.

 

Teen Titan collectors, folks who actually read BB 54 and 60, have known forever the relationship between 54 and 60 and that 54 is the origin and first appearance without naming the team. What you're hung up on is a pretty simple concept: A team can be formed without a name.

 

Yes, it can. In what panel did the nameless team form, please?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
yoddler

yoddler

Posted
Posted
Fair enough, but missing the point, I think. I concede that B&B 60, which includes a direct reference to events in and after 54, could not have been published exactly the same way without 54. Could it EASILY have been published without that reference and still been virtually identical? Yeah.

 

You're also missing my point: HISTORY states that the reason DC went ahead and published BB60 is because of the positive reception it received from BB54. 54 begat 60. There is a direct correlation and connection between these two books.

 

Could someone have independently decided hey, let's do a teen sidekick book and call it "Tween Titans" or "Prepubescent Titans" without BB54? Um, yeah they could have. (hint: they didn't). DC could have also published a book about a walking tree and a talking raccoon...

 

Right. But since they could have, then BB54 isn't a prerequisite for BB60. I'm not exactly sure why we're arguing about this. I'm perfectly comfortable with anyone arguing that BB54 is a precursor, or part of the story, or part of the origin or whatever. I, too, think it's an important book. It just doesn't have the first appearance of the Teen Titans in it.

 

You're right -- let's stop arguing about it and go grab a beer! lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
3 3
Go to topic listing