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Help me understand why FF 48 is so valuable? ( sarcasm to make a point)

Started by CBT,

126 posts in this topic

RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

That we are even comparing the two is pretty amazing. Such a comparison would have been laughed away even a year ago.

 

The nice thing about history is that it happened. There's no speculation about history, even when people get it wrong. It happened, it's done, it's set in stone, nothing can change it.

 

FF #48 was recognized as a key issue from just a year or two after it came out. The Surfer captured the imagination of the comic reading public in the 60's, and though his popularity has waxed and waned over the years, FF #48 has always been, head and shoulders above, the most important FF book after #12, maybe even back to #5.

 

And all of this without a movie in sight.

 

The Inhumans were fairly well received, but nowhere near the level of the Surfer, evidenced by the fact that there is a 1968 Silver Surfer #1, a mere two years after his introduction (the very first SA Marvel character introduced in another super hero title to get his own, the ONLY one who managed that feat until the 1970's)

 

The truth is, the Silver Surfer is the single most significant super hero to come out of the mid-60's, from any company, and the most important hero ever introduced in the pages of the FF who are not the FF (he might even rival Doom for most important of all.) No other character or team has ever come close to matching his popularity from the era, and after DD #1, there's simply not another character that had the impact he did after the first wave. He was Lee and Kirby's last great creation.

 

The Inhumans can make no such claims.

 

(And even Lee and Kirby didn't understand what they had created, evidenced by the fact that SS doesn't appear on the cover of #48, which was standard Lee practice for any character he thought had potential. If SS had appeared on the cover, or if the cover of #50 had been #48...this wouldn't be a conversation at all. It took them two issues to really realize what they were creating, and that the Surfer...not Galactus...was the real star of their story.)

 

And while yes, anything is possible...it is, for sure....history is against the idea that FF #45 will become "THE" SA FF to own from the mid to late 60's.

 

But anything could happen...

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Hamlet

Hamlet

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Posted

What is impressive to me lately is the sheer number of "hot" books. FF36, 45, 46, 52 have all exploded in value, even in lower grades.

 

It's reaching the point where I am considering breaking up my runs and selling off the hot books. I probably won't because I have two small children, so selling comics generally falls to the back burner, but it really feels to me like this is a sell high opportunity for most of these books.

 

That we are even comparing the two is pretty amazing. Such a comparison would have been laughed away even a year ago.

 

The nice thing about history is that it happened. There's no speculation about history, even when people get it wrong. It happened, it's done, it's set in stone, nothing can change it.

 

FF #48 was recognized as a key issue from just a year or two after it came out. The Surfer captured the imagination of the comic reading public in the 60's, and though his popularity has waxed and waned over the years, FF #48 has always been, head and shoulders above, the most important FF book after #12, maybe even back to #5.

 

And all of this without a movie in sight.

 

The Inhumans were fairly well received, but nowhere near the level of the Surfer, evidenced by the fact that there is a 1968 Silver Surfer #1, a mere two years after his introduction (the very first SA Marvel character introduced in another super hero title to get his own, the ONLY one who managed that feat until the 1970's)

 

The truth is, the Silver Surfer is the single most significant super hero to come out of the mid-60's, from any company, and the most important hero ever introduced in the pages of the FF who are not the FF (he might even rival Doom for most important of all.) No other character or team has ever come close to matching his popularity from the era, and after DD #1, there's simply not another character that had the impact he did after the first wave. He was Lee and Kirby's last great creation.

 

The Inhumans can make no such claims.

 

And while yes, anything is possible...it is, for sure....history is against the idea that FF #45 will become "THE" SA FF to own from the mid to late 60's.

 

But anything could happen...

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comixcroz

comixcroz

Posted
Posted

The inhumans have always been my favorite grouping of characters from the original FF series. When I collected FF in the early 2000s, FF #45 was always my favorite book and I've owned at least 10 copies over the years.

 

That being said, there is no question in my mind that FF #48 is the more "important" key to FF and Marvel continuity. The Silver Surfer and Galactus eclipse the Inhumans in importance and are easily more recognizable to the masses.

 

FF #45 hasn't really seen a steady increase in value over the years, it has exploded in recent months and people that weren't even aware of the book a few years ago are clamoring for it and paying insanely high prices for restored 7.5s. It's hype from the recent movie announcement and I'm not sure it will stay this hot, but I don't expect it to drop to where it was before the hype.

 

A major problem with FF #48 is that it's relatively easy to find in the higher grades. It's known to be a warehouse find and, if you have the money, 9.4s and 9.6s are pretty easily accessible. If this were not the case, I would guess that this book would be much more valuable across the board. In stark contrast, FF #45 tends to be one of the most difficult FFs to find in high grade from that period of the run and it's always been a little more expensive that other surrounding issues, one reason being how extremely hard to find its been in 9.0 or better.

 

 

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
What is impressive to me lately is the sheer number of "hot" books. FF36, 45, 46, 52 have all exploded in value, even in lower grades.

 

It's reaching the point where I am considering breaking up my runs and selling off the hot books. I probably won't because I have two small children, so selling comics generally falls to the back burner, but it really feels to me like this is a sell high opportunity for most of these books.

 

Sell them and buy gold.

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JollyComics

JollyComics

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Posted
FF48 never needed movie hype to make it popular for collectors

 

FF45 has only been noticed because of comments that Feige made in the past two years

 

Let's face it

 

If Marvel has the rights to xmen or fantastic four movies we would not even care this much for this book

 

Ahh that is much better! No frog lapping!

 

It's just a movie vibe thing.

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ItsJustRyan

ItsJustRyan

Posted
Posted
Very good post Rock.

 

Can you imagine how popular SS would be with a GREAT film, or him even being in any of the Marvel world and done right??

 

 

Since you mentioned it.... SS is central to the Infinity Gauntlet series

 

He co-conspires with Warlock to retreave the gauntlet from Thanos

 

I hope he makes his due appearance ;)

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miraclemet

miraclemet

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Posted

the question is

 

is there a difference between demand based on 40 years of growth and impact (like what SS and Galactus have had on the Marvel Universe)

 

and demand based on a few years of movie speculation and hype.

 

When the Inhumans had a role in Civil War/Secret Invasion it didnt do anything to FF45. It was just a blip on the radar.

 

We dont have any comparison points for long term stability in pricing following movie bumps. We know that secondary characters show some regression (TOS50 and the Mandarin, post IM3 or TOS97 and Whiplash post IM2) , but those are villains, not central characters.

 

GotG and MSH18 will be the first test case to see how a book (of a lead character) whose demand and value is largely based on movie success will do post movie (or in their case movies).

 

Back to your original question, can FF45 be more valuable than FF48. Sure. We're buying comics in a new paradigm where interest is born not out of the source material, but the secondary movie material.

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namisgr

namisgr

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Posted

Lest we forget, what goes up can come back down again.

 

As an owner of a high grade slabbed copy of FF #45 not yet ready to sell, it would be great if the comic sustained its suddenly skyrocketing price. It won't necessarily be the case, however. I'm reminded of the price action on Strange Tales #135 - when Nick Fury and Shield became part of the Avengers movie world, the book rocketed in value, and high grade copies were selling for 2.5X what they were fetching a mere few months before. Jump to today: the book is still a little pricier than before the hysteria hit, but its value today is a fraction of the hype-induced peak.

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HarveySwick

HarveySwick

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So is TOS #39 a "movie hype book"? It saw all it's big jumps after Iron Man 1 was released. :whistle:

 

Anybody want to do a GPA price comparison across all grades before and after the movie?

 

I'll give you this - at first I wouldn't have thought there would be a big jump, but there was.

 

But there is still a major difference between Iron Man and the Inhumans. Iron Man had cartoons, toys, solo comics. He was part of the Avengers. He was a major character even before the movie. You can somewhat anticipate (hope) that Daredevil #1 will see similar increases if the Netflix show is successful. But again, Daredevil is a big character in the Marvel Universe.

 

The Inhumans before movie speculation were an afterthought.

 

Can anyone say, with a straight face, that the Inhumans were on par with Iron Man or Daredevil as far as significance or importance or popularity?

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mysterio

mysterio

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Posted
So is TOS #39 a "movie hype book"? It saw all it's big jumps after Iron Man 1 was released. :whistle:

 

Anybody want to do a GPA price comparison across all grades before and after the movie?

 

I'll give you this - at first I wouldn't have thought there would be a big jump, but there was.

 

But there is still a major difference between Iron Man and the Inhumans. Iron Man had cartoons, toys, solo comics. He was part of the Avengers. He was a major character even before the movie. You can somewhat anticipate (hope) that Daredevil #1 will see similar increases if the Netflix show is successful. But again, Daredevil is a big character in the Marvel Universe.

 

The Inhumans before movie speculation were an afterthought.

 

Can anyone say, with a straight face, that the Inhumans were on par with Iron Man or Daredevil as far as significance or importance or popularity?

 

No, but to play devil's advocate, how many thought that GOTG would have grossed as much, if not more (don't have the figures in front of me) as Iron Man 1? The film made them players in that space, and elevated TTA #13 up to values on par with many solid B list Marvel first appearances. If an Inhumans film is as well-received, and brings them as firmly into the broader media consciousness as GOTG, it will be interesting to see what sorts of values are sustained.

 

Personally, I have trouble seeing that happening with the Inhumans, but I also had trouble seeing GOTG doing what they did too.

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CBT

CBT

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We dont have any comparison points for long term stability in pricing following movie bumps.

 

It's not just a movie bump, its an all media bump. Movies, TV, Comics, Cartoons, Toys, Consumer merchandise.

 

 

We know that secondary characters show some regression (TOS50 and the Mandarin, post IM3 or TOS97 and Whiplash post IM2) , but those are villains, not central characters.

 

I have long long said to always unload villain books. Villain books should not be kept after they are killed or defeated. Marvel isnt branding a one off movie villain across all media platforms.

 

In terms of regression, all books will see peaks and troughs when there is a lot of interest in them, and when interest dips. You dont just need movie books to find that kind of action.

 

GotG and MSH18 will be the first test case to see how a book (of a lead character) whose demand and value is largely based on movie success will do post movie (or in their case movies).

 

I agree, the GotG characters are probably the legit comparison. The movie was what introduced them to the world, but they are there own entity now.

 

Back to your original question, can FF45 be more valuable than FF48. Sure. We're buying comics in a new paradigm where interest is born not out of the source material, but the secondary movie material.

 

I think its the same paradigm, its interest in a character, and the desire to own. What the main driver of that interest has changed many times over the decades. This is another step in comic history, and a good one, if it keeps bringing more and more interest to the hobby.

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vaillant

vaillant

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Posted

This whole thread does not make much sense.

 

One thing is popularity, one thing is short-term popularity, and an entirely different thing is something popular which becomes classic.

 

All of the above should not have anything to do with movies which are thought for a single evening consumption.

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CBT

CBT

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Lest we forget, what goes up can come back down again.

 

As an owner of a high grade slabbed copy of FF #45 not yet ready to sell, it would be great if the comic sustained its suddenly skyrocketing price. It won't necessarily be the case, however. I'm reminded of the price action on Strange Tales #135 - when Nick Fury and Shield became part of the Avengers movie world, the book rocketed in value, and high grade copies were selling for 2.5X what they were fetching a mere few months before. Jump to today: the book is still a little pricier than before the hysteria hit, but its value today is a fraction of the hype-induced peak.

 

Ok, and look at the difference in Nick Fury and his use, and then look at the plans for the Inhumans across all media.

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