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Comic Book Coin is Coming!
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Started by Tonic's Comics,

424 posts in this topic

W16227

W16227

Posted
Posted

I think the main point you are missing here is the fact that you guys have put way too much time and effort into something that almost nobody on planet Earf (sic) is going to buy into.

 

If this is a serious proposition in buying CGC graded books, really the $10 monthly GPA subscription fee is an obstacle?

 

This is just so flawed in every aspect.

 

Jim

 

OK, I am clearly not communicating properly.

 

-- We can and do subscribe to GPA. The point is transparency. For those that own the coin and do not want or have even the faintest interest in subscribing to any comics price guide, they can still check the prices online to see that we are using actual numbers. I am unsure why everyone is so concerned with this aspect of the coin. I have not gotten one question at all about this anywhere else. As I stated many times, we will switch it over if the disparity is as great as everyone here seems to feel. Again, anyone can use any method they choose to evaluate the value of the collections.

 

-- Many people will buy the coin. I know that many, if not most of you don't believe that, but it is true. In fact, some people are quite enthused about it. Still, if it is only purchased by me, my mother and one guy in Estonia, it will be quite easy to run the coin from that point as well. We will either keep expanding or just sell the collection, issue a dividend to the three coin holders and wrap things up. The structure can almost be compared to a closed-end fund in that way. Probably more accurately, to a foundation that tends to artwork. Either way, the structure is simple enough and flexible enough to work no matter the initial demand.

 

I hope that I have responded to your concerns. I understand some of your reactions, but time will tell as they say. 99% of crypto are nothing but empty blockchains. This will have assets, so right there it has a step up.

 

 

but if you do not show actual asset value - then ????

 

GPA= based on actual sales. CPG = based on something that they do not disclose and are very cryptic about describing - and from a CGC standpoint - are totally invalidated by the actual sales.

 

Hint - if you get a bunch of people to buy in based on the stated asset value listed on your website - which you have admitted here has an incorrect value after people pointed out one of your cost justifications was based on a SIGNATURE SERIES books.......

 

just hope you looked into the legal issues - I would actyally REALLY question any comics book store trying to say book a is worth XXX based on CPG.,,,, not even as part of a call for people to invest......

 

 

 

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

Posted
Posted
Give it a day or two. I predict this will be the Wednesday "Friday" thread.

 

:D

 

 

 

-slym

 

Too busy watching football to take it seriously.

 

When the game is over I am sure people will come out and pounce per the norm.

 

Before it is all said and done it will be about WD1, NM 98 or OOAW 83.

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted

Buzz you're missing the point-he does all the frustrating work of collecting and flipping and you just sit back and reap the profits. It's a no brainer.

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
I just got home from work and after work meetings and discussions about those meetings and mind numbness and honestly do not feel like reading the walls of text on this guy's site.

 

So let me see if I got this.

 

I pay this guy to collect comic books. I get a coin out of it. I am basically taking stock in a guys ability to accumulate a valuable comic book collection. Eventually he will sell and I collect.

 

Is that about it?

 

 

 

Yep, you get a cheap coin with a cruddy logo and he gets to collect comics.

 

win/win?

 

lol

 

I would bet on Storms, Gator, Metropolis...

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JTBGOOD-migration

JTBGOOD-migration

Posted
Posted
I won't be "investing" in this, but I have identified some concerns you may want to address, beyond what has already been mentioned.

 

Your website looks like amateur hour. It gives me no confidence to invest with you.

 

You have no plan on your website about how you will invest. Will you invest 100% of money in comics? 50%? Is someone being paid a salary to "manage" this? How much are they being paid?

 

How many coins are you keeping for yourself?

 

You mention possibly selling comics for a dividend. Who decides which comics to sell and when? Can owners vote on it? Just your decision? How much is paid out in dividends? Will someone be taking a commission for facilitating the sale? How much?

 

You mention costs for maintaining the collection you hope to buy. Where would these costs come from after, hypothetically, the entire allotment of your currency sold? Would you have to continually sell off books to cover it until the whole collection is gone?

 

--- I'm sorry you feel that way. As far as the website goes, I can't tell you how many compliments I have gotten on it and mostly all from perfect strangers. Young and old and comics people and non-comics people alike. As I explained about the logo earlier, the whole, I guess you would call it amateur, but I like to think of it as retro :D, look of the site is supposed to give off a fun feel. Obviously, you are not someone who feels that way. Maybe it has just grown on me, but I kind of like it. But, yes, I am sure it will change as it goes on. Maybe we will give it a more corporate look as time goes on. You know, as an experienced crypto follower myself, maybe I was just tired of the same old Word Press cookie cutter sites. I do understand how you feel though.

 

--- Yes, all the money, minus expenses will go to comics. As we said on the site, expenses will really just consist of insurance for the comic books, some promotion and any comic procurement costs. There will be no salaries for anyone (including me) at the start, but if it gets large enough, we may hire someone, but that is not in the plans. Once the coin is off the ground, costs should be relatively light. Insurance increases commensurate with the value of the books, of course, but everything else should be pretty steady.

 

--- The expenses will be paid for by the currency itself. While there is more detail on the site the entire allotment of the coin, as you put it, may not run out for 15 years. That depends on a few factors, most prominently the success of the coin. Again, a fuller explanation is on the site.

 

--- Yes, I will, with some help, be deciding all of those things. But, your idea of voting for certain things such as dividends is very much on our minds and we are leaning toward that direction. Some will prefer dividends now versus more comics, vice versa and everything in between. As explained on the site dividends are not the immediate goal as collecting is, but if the opportunity comes along then certainly they could become a factor earlier. Buybacks may play a larger role than dividends in the first year or so. Voting and gauging the feelings of the community will play a big part in our decisions. Anyone can buy CBC, of course, but over the medium haul, we hope to have a good group of comic book fans and not just crypto fans, in the coin holder community.

 

I hope I covered everything on your list -- thanks!

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JTBGOOD-migration

JTBGOOD-migration

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

but if you do not show actual asset value - then ????

 

GPA= based on actual sales. CPG = based on something that they do not disclose and are very cryptic about describing - and from a CGC standpoint - are totally invalidated by the actual sales.

 

Hint - if you get a bunch of people to buy in based on the stated asset value listed on your website - which you have admitted here has an incorrect value after people pointed out one of your cost justifications was based on a SIGNATURE SERIES books.......

 

just hope you looked into the legal issues - I would actyally REALLY question any comics book store trying to say book a is worth XXX based on CPG.,,,, not even as part of a call for people to invest......

 

 

 

Oh, I see what you are saying. Yes, that is a good point, but I just don't completely agree.

 

And I never "admitted" that I based anything regarding "cost justifications" based on SS books. I just said that I apologized for too quickly looking up an EBay sale. I have been very busy and I just stopped on the first one I saw. But, that has nothing to do with what's on my website.

 

Anyway, Avengers Annual #7 is irrelevant in that I wanted to pick some book to begin and that seemed like a fun, relatively easily obtainable comic. But, more importantly, the coin isn't even released yet, so its value means nothing. Had I known it was going to cause such an uproar (well, an uproar here), I would never have picked it. Look, I saw the auction that is being referred to an it was a "bad" one in that it was out of the norm. Now, maybe future sales will be closer to that price in the future, but I doubt it. GPA has flaws too.

 

And, its biggest flaw is its volatility. When there are comics that are relatively rare (or at least in certain grades) one sale can change the "average" price dramatically. I realize that in your view (and most others here), that last sale is the most important data point -- and it can be!. But, a strong argument can be made that in rarer comics that may only have a few sales a year, the last data point is not that relevant to how much the next guy can get for his copy in the same grade. We all know that is true. It is the nature of the game including at auctions. Comics price guide can be off, but they do lower and raise prices to reflect current conditions. And furthermore, they are very close to GPA on most comics -- I know because I looked.

 

Finally, and most importantly, we will change from Comics Price Guide if they prove to be too optimistic. No one is trying to fool anyone here. The comics are going to be listed as acquired and displayed at a comic book shop open to the public. Getting the most accurate prices is in the best interest of everyone including CBC.

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W16227

W16227

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

but if you do not show actual asset value - then ????

 

GPA= based on actual sales. CPG = based on something that they do not disclose and are very cryptic about describing - and from a CGC standpoint - are totally invalidated by the actual sales.

 

Hint - if you get a bunch of people to buy in based on the stated asset value listed on your website - which you have admitted here has an incorrect value after people pointed out one of your cost justifications was based on a SIGNATURE SERIES books.......

 

just hope you looked into the legal issues - I would actyally REALLY question any comics book store trying to say book a is worth XXX based on CPG.,,,, not even as part of a call for people to invest......

 

 

 

Oh, I see what you are saying. Yes, that is a good point, but I just don't completely agree.

 

And I never "admitted" that I based anything regarding "cost justifications" based on SS books. I just said that I apologized for too quickly looking up an EBay sale. I have been very busy and I just stopped on the first one I saw. But, that has nothing to do with what's on my website.

 

Anyway, Avengers Annual #7 is irrelevant in that I wanted to pick some book to begin and that seemed like a fun, relatively easily obtainable comic. But, more importantly, the coin isn't even released yet, so its value means nothing. Had I known it was going to cause such an uproar (well, an uproar here), I would never have picked it. Look, I saw the auction that is being referred to an it was a "bad" one in that it was out of the norm. Now, maybe future sales will be closer to that price in the future, but I doubt it. GPA has flaws too.

 

And, its biggest flaw is its volatility. When there are comics that are relatively rare (or at least in certain grades) one sale can change the "average" price dramatically. I realize that in your view (and most others here), that last sale is the most important data point -- and it can be!. But, a strong argument can be made that in rarer comics that may only have a few sales a year, the last data point is not that relevant to how much the next guy can get for his copy in the same grade. We all know that is true. It is the nature of the game including at auctions. Comics price guide can be off, but they do lower and raise prices to reflect current conditions. And furthermore, they are very close to GPA on most comics -- I know because I looked.

 

Finally, and most importantly, we will change from Comics Price Guide if they prove to be too optimistic. No one is trying to fool anyone here. The comics are going to be listed as acquired and displayed at a comic book shop open to the public. Getting the most accurate prices is in the best interest of everyone including CBC.

 

 

am I the only one who is confused?

 

 

 

 

Actually the last real world sale was $410 for one grade below the one we own just a couple of weeks ago on EBay. We have confidence in Comics Price Guide, but they do lag sometimes in particular hot and cold books. But, that is not the reason we chose them.

 

 

the book that sold on ebay - was a signature series book.

 

You quoted this as fact - to justify the valuation that you listed on the web site - and as a reference for justifying CPG as a price reference.

 

All the talk of backing this phantom security with assets - and paying dividends - again, might want to check with a lawyer. Seems like you are offering stock in a company and not filing with the SEC. Either that - or you are creating your own currently WITH ASSET BASED BACKING - that may or may not have real issues with the initial quoted values of said assets.

 

You can use the whole "comic books pricing is volatile" excuse all you want- but when proven wrong quite directly about the valuation on on the initial "comic" ........... you have documented issues that may cause you legal issues.

 

 

I suppose you will do ok here - as long as you promise not to decoupage.

 

 

 

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JTBGOOD-migration

JTBGOOD-migration

Posted
Posted

WOW, that was quite a day and you guys were my...uh...highlight! :D I am going to sleep now. I am sure I will pop back tomorrow when I get a chance in case anyone had any more questions.

 

And to reiterate, I completely get that some of you want nothing to do with this. For those of you not really familiar with crypto, it must seem extra ridiculous. For those who are familiar, then you know that this is an asset based coin, which automatically makes it different than 99% of the blockchain coins out there.

 

And crypto is huge. I am sure many of you saw this link from a few pages ago:

http://coinmarketcap.com/

 

It's fun too. And there is a big community out there. Believe it or not, I did not spend most of my day on this forum (until the end), but on other crypto forums, Twitter, email, etc. talking about the coin.

 

And just as a general statement, it really is a simple concept. Instead of an empty blockchain coin (with often empty promises to boot), this coin will have assets. Perhaps think of it as a precious metals virtual (almost) store. The store has to acquire gold and silver and try to sell it at a profit. They have to store and insure the silver and gold and maybe pay an employee or two. And that is about it. They have a large chunk of assets in their precious metals which the store has at all times. But, they also sell it to make a profit.

 

It's not a perfect analogy, but as there are precious metals "coins" out on the market structured like that right now, I thought it might help some of you crypto fans understand it better.

 

In any case, for those of you who just have no interest, I understand. For those who do, I hope you will give it a look.

 

It was nice to meet you all today -- you're sure not a shy bunch are you?!! :D Have a good night!

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69CamaroZ28

69CamaroZ28

Posted
Posted

I have a question..

If someone was to "invest" say $1K, and in 6 months or a year, they decided to get out. Do they just sell the coin(s) back to you? Would they break even, make, or lose money? Or would they have to wait until you sell some books before getting their money? Possibly taking a loss in the sale of the books.

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01TheDude

01TheDude

Posted
Posted

No, but you...you...you're thinking of this site all wrong.

As if I had the money back in a safe.

The, the money's not here.

Well, your money's in Joe's copy of Avenger's 7 Annual CGC 9.8 house...

that's right next to your copy of NM98.

And in the Kennedy copy of Ninjak, and Mrs. Macklin's

Iron Man 55, and, and a hundred others.

Why, you're lending them the money to build a collection,

and then, they're going to pay it

back to you as best they can.

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