Action Comics #2 CGC 9.4

[jimjum12]

To be safe, I WILL pack a lunch GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

..... you're right about the Mylar thing..... and I keep the label with it..... some of the slight work is so hard to detect, one could easily forget.....

[tth2]

it almost seems as if the collectors of Blue only are afraid that acceptance of restored specimens will erode the value of THEIR investments

Not at all.

 

I can`t speak for the motivation of others, but my personal reason for wanting restored books to be stigmatized and for their values to be suppressed is because I hate the idea of people tampering with books, no matter how professionally, and therefore don`t want there to be a financial incentive for people to restore books.

 

Just leave them be.

[Bronty]

But that's where it falls totally flat. There's no such thing as a book left alone anymore and there hasn't been for years . They all get worked on, so why continue this blue / purple charade? Even better than all blue labels would be all purple labels

[jimjum12]

...... an honorable motive to be sure. Unfortunately, those who are hoping for the Action 2 to close for 30 %% OPG are going to be disappointed..... but books will never be restored in the numbers they were in the 90's. Hope all is going well for you tonight, Tim....... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[woowoo]

30 %% OPG the book might not have ever been cleaned. No proof how can anyone know what was done to the book. Theres a lot of people like me. The book is in a Con holder that hurts a lot but its going to pass 50% easy

[jimjum12]

..... market for restored will become more and more "book specific"...... and with the next highest CGC being a 7.5...... I'm betting full guide or so being an outside possibility...... this book is tough, tough, tough...... and those early non Superman covers are GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Tri-Color Brian]

I have a simple solution for myself...if I sell a restored book I will show the receipt that lists all the resto done to it. Full disclosure people, that's what we need...not a colored label. If someone doesn't have the receipt, then I guess they need CGC to tell them what was done to the book...but I don't suffer from that problem...

[Cat-Man_America]

...the only reason restored books are stigmatized is because CGC used a different color label?

...Negatory! The historical precedent predates CGC.

But unless attitudes have changed PLOD & GLOD doesn't stand for Pretty Label Of Desirability and Gorgeous Label Of Destiny.

Well, that`s just people creating acronyms based on the fact that the labels ARE of different colors.

 

If they had been blue labels but with a big "Conserved" on the label, like this Action 2, perhaps we`d be calling them CLODs (Conserved Label of Death) today.

 

In fact, let me trademark that term for the record!

 

I'll gladly support your ownership of the word CLOD if that is your wish. (thumbs u

 

it almost seems as if the collectors of Blue only are afraid that acceptance of restored specimens will erode the value of THEIR investments

Not at all.

 

I can`t speak for the motivation of others, but my personal reason for wanting restored books to be stigmatized and for their values to be suppressed is because I hate the idea of people tampering with books, no matter how professionally, and therefore don`t want there to be a financial incentive for people to restore books.

 

Just leave them be.

 

From the moment a comic leaves the printing press it's being tampered with in some fashion. We all prefer comics in original condition, but the appreciation of a rare paper collectible is judged by it's appearance, not patina. Comics should be dignified with the same respect as other valued paper antiquities, not stigmatized, not devalued, not scarlet lettered, but seen as worthy of preservation.

 

The financial incentive comes from resubmitting books for grade bumping, not restoration. I've railed against the crack-out, press & flip culture, because each roll of the dice increases the risk of damaging fragile paper. If you're looking for a cause, there's one that's certainly worthy of your time.

 

Professional conservation, used sparingly to maintain prized albeit fragile books in near-newsstand condition should not only be considered acceptable, but supported without reservation. IMO, this is a natural and sophisticated maturation of the hobby.

 

Peace, bro.

 

[Cat-Man_America]

Yes... Any difference in label design or content that identified restored books would be enough for the stigma to recur..

 

The "stigma" is the restoration itself, not the colour of the label.

 

C'mon, do you really believe that? Some collectors won't even see the book after glimpsing a purple label.

 

To me that demonstrates an almost Pavlovian response to the label based solely on color and a predisposition to dislike the book.

 

Again if restored book collectors are so turned off by the colour of the labels on their slabs, just crack the books out and put them in a mylar.

 

Many collectors do just that, even with blue labels. That's fine, totally cool.

 

Others prefer keeping books in holders, but then come across things regarded as restoration that seem totally undeserving of a purple label. I'm in that camp.

 

But this isn't about that. It's about money. Or at least "value". They seem to want to have their cake and eat it too- get a great deal on a restored book, and then immediately turn around and demand that their restored book be "worth" the same as an un-restored book, and talk of re-inventing an entire grading system that works just fine, so they can feel better about owning restored books.

 

For some of us it's simply about the books and the belief that our hobby should be held to similar standards and esteem as other rare paper collectibles.

 

If this is supposed to be about the love of the hobby and individual books, just owning the book at all, in the condition that was affordable at the time should be enough, right? (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I care passionately about our hobby, but it isn't an insular hobby. We are part of a much broader collecting field that includes antiquities & paper ephemera that isn't stigmatized by professional conservation efforts.

 

Our hobby is often viewed with curiosity because professional restoration is so severely penalized. It also makes investors on the fence question the stability of comic markets.

 

What we should be supporting is full and open disclosure by graders, not color coded labels. My (...and change)

[Sqeggs]

Interesting discussion. A few points:

 

1. We tend to forget that there are many collectors out there who don't know the ways of CGC-world the way we do. To them, the purple label is a helpful distinguisher -- considerably more helpful than the additional label notes that several people have suggested. In the unlikely event that CGC were to convert purple labels to blue labels with more extensive notes, some unwary collectors would almost certainly find themselves buying former PLODs at inflated prices. Being burned that way could easily drive someone out of the hobby -- or at least out of collecting slabbed books.

 

2. The extent of the stigma on PLODs is curious when compared with the situation with other paper collectibles. You would think that over time it would diminish, making many PLODs relative bargains at today's prices. But who really knows.

 

3. If the stigma against PLODs were to diminish, there would be a negative effect on prices of blue label books ... unless the law of supply and demand were repealed in the interim.

[tth2]

I've railed against the crack-out, press & flip culture, because each roll of the dice increases the risk of damaging fragile paper. If you're looking for a cause, there's one that's certainly worthy of your time.

I don`t know whether to laugh or cry at that statement.

[G.A.tor]

I like restored keys ...I like them personally bc I usually can buy at a cost I feel is under FMv all things considered....an opp to own/collect at a relatively inexpensive alternative to buying unrestored. I like them from a resale perspective for the same reason...I can buy at less (sometimes far less) than I feel FMv should be and then I can offer them for sale. I've bought and sold millions of dollars of restored keys over the past few years and profited on all...and virtually everyone has risen in value and in cases where I've seen them resold, at higher than I sold for

 

 

The comic market in general is strong and restored keys will continue to have a place and I believe will continue to have more acceptance as unrestored counterparts price themselves out of the realistic... Increased demand results in increased prices.

[hockeyboy13]

 

does this help?

[SNiPER]

That looks CONSERVED to me !

[woowoo]

I like restored keys ...I like them personally bc I usually can buy at a cost I feel is under FMv all things considered....an opp to own/collect at a relatively inexpensive alternative to buying unrestored. I like them from a resale perspective for the same reason...I can buy at less (sometimes far less) than I feel FMv should be and then I can offer them for sale. I've bought and sold millions of dollars of restored keys over the past few years and profited on all...and virtually everyone has risen in value and in cases where I've seen them resold, at higher than I sold for

 

 

The comic market in general is strong and restored keys will continue to have a place and I believe will continue to have more acceptance as unrestored counterparts price themselves out of the realistic... Increased demand results in increased prices.

 

Thats the best way to view restored books..................................... Great way to look at restored.

Had to edit cant see keyboard letters anymore spoon

[Cat-Man_America]

Interesting discussion.

 

True.

 

 

A few points revisited:

 

1. We tend to forget that there are many collectors out there who don't know the ways of CGC-world the way we do. To them, the purple label is a helpful distinguisher -- considerably more helpful than the additional label notes that several people have suggested.

 

There are folks who don't know swiss cheese from aged cheddar until they've tasted them. Dye doesn't add anything to the experience. If a gourmet's palate is sophisticated enough to appreciate fine cheeses without dyes and labels then why should we assume an experienced comic collector lacks the visual acumen to read the fine print that goes with a professionally graded book?

 

A sophisticated system that respects a collectors intelligence isn't built upon placating the lowest common denominator, it's fine tuned to educate the great unwashed. Gator said it best: "I like soap."

 

In the unlikely event that CGC were to convert purple labels to blue labels with more extensive notes, some unwary collectors would almost certainly find themselves buying former PLODs at inflated prices. Being burned that way could easily drive someone out of the hobby -- or at least out of collecting slabbed books.

 

You're apparently asserting that colored warning labels should prevent inflated prices, but there's the rub. What's an inflated price in a mature collector's market that has evolved through the wide acceptance of full disclosure & professional grading?

 

Are you suggesting that the label color should play a role in determining value?

 

Collectors at this level are keenly aware of which flaws determine greater or lesser desirability and experienced enough to avoid being burned. Why treat them like children, wrapping graded books in a candy colored warning label?

 

2. The extent of the stigma on PLODs is curious when compared with the situation with other paper collectibles. You would think that over time it would diminish, making many PLODs relative bargains at today's prices. But who really knows.

 

Discrimination based on labeling isn't a new phenomenon. In order to take this form of bias out of the picture, the merit of the book must be established through education, without acquiescing to preconceived prejudices about the label's color.

 

3. If the stigma against PLODs were to diminish, there would be a negative effect on prices of blue label books ... unless the law of supply and demand were repealed in the interim.

 

Nonsense. A rising blue tide raises all boats.

[Cat-Man_America]

I've railed against the crack-out, press & flip culture, because each roll of the dice increases the risk of damaging fragile paper. If you're looking for a cause, there's one that's certainly worthy of your time.

I don`t know whether to laugh or cry at that statement.

 

You can do both, no one will mind. You're a sensitive guy, we get it.

 

Alternatively, you could pontificate about why the bump and flip aspect of our collecting culture is more graciously accepted than a progressive change of label color.

 

The duplicitous nature of condoning one while deriding the other eludes me.

[Cat-Man_America]

I like restored keys ...I like them personally bc I usually can buy at a cost I feel is under FMv all things considered....an opp to own/collect at a relatively inexpensive alternative to buying unrestored. I like them from a resale perspective for the same reason...I can buy at less (sometimes far less) than I feel FMv should be and then I can offer them for sale. I've bought and sold millions of dollars of restored keys over the past few years and profited on all...and virtually everyone has risen in value and in cases where I've seen them resold, at higher than I sold for

 

 

The comic market in general is strong and restored keys will continue to have a place and I believe will continue to have more acceptance as unrestored counterparts price themselves out of the realistic... Increased demand results in increased prices.

 

Thats the best way to view restored books..................................... Great way to look at restored.

Had to edit cant see keyboard letters anymore spoon

 

He's also very clean, ya know. (thumbs u

[Sqeggs]

Interesting discussion.

 

True.

 

 

A few points revisited:

 

1. We tend to forget that there are many collectors out there who don't know the ways of CGC-world the way we do. To them, the purple label is a helpful distinguisher -- considerably more helpful than the additional label notes that several people have suggested.

 

There are folks who don't know swiss cheese from aged cheddar until they've tasted them. Dye doesn't add anything to the experience. If a gourmet's palate is sophisticated enough to appreciate fine cheeses without dyes and labels then why should we assume an experienced comic collector lacks the visual acumen to read the fine print that goes with a professionally graded book?

 

A sophisticated system that respects a collectors intelligence isn't built upon placating the lowest common denominator, it's fine tuned to educate the great unwashed. Gator said it best: "I like soap."

 

In the unlikely event that CGC were to convert purple labels to blue labels with more extensive notes, some unwary collectors would almost certainly find themselves buying former PLODs at inflated prices. Being burned that way could easily drive someone out of the hobby -- or at least out of collecting slabbed books.

 

You're apparently asserting that colored warning labels should prevent inflated prices, but there's the rub. What's an inflated price in a mature collector's market that has evolved through the wide acceptance of full disclosure & professional grading?

 

Are you suggesting that the label color should play a role in determining value?

 

Collectors at this level are keenly aware of which flaws determine greater or lesser desirability and experienced enough to avoid being burned. Why treat them like children, wrapping graded books in a candy colored warning label?

 

2. The extent of the stigma on PLODs is curious when compared with the situation with other paper collectibles. You would think that over time it would diminish, making many PLODs relative bargains at today's prices. But who really knows.

 

Discrimination based on labeling isn't a new phenomenon. In order to take this form of bias out of the picture, the merit of the book must be established through education, without acquiescing to preconceived prejudices about the label's color.

 

3. If the stigma against PLODs were to diminish, there would be a negative effect on prices of blue label books ... unless the law of supply and demand were repealed in the interim.

 

Nonsense. A rising blue tide raises all boats.

 

Well, as I said, prolonged residence on these boards can lead one to vastly overestimate the sophistication of the typical collector. Unleashing a flood of formerly purple books in blue labels (I'm assuming that there would be no signifier beyond expanded label notes) is bound to give an opening to less than scrupulous dealers. Particularly given that many blue label books already have label notes.

 

"why should we assume an experienced comic collector lacks the visual acumen to read the fine print that goes with a professionally graded book?" Because "cleaned" versus "cleaned" and "minor color touch" versus "color touch" and "spot of glue" versus "spine glued" aren't self-evident distinctions. As it is, the purple label provides the collector with CGC's judgement that significant (rather than minimal) restoration has been done on a book.

 

Eliminate that signifier and, sure, caveat emptor, but I have no doubt that when the smoke clears some collectors will feel that they have been taken advantage of by buying books that they wouldn't have bought (at least at the prices they bought them at) had they realized the extent of the restoration in the book.

 

Very similar to the situation when collectors in the pre-CGC days bought Church and other high-grade books without knowing that color touch and other work had been done to them. You could argue that an "experienced collector" ought to have been able to detect the work done, but in fact many did not. CGC's success is due in part to its ability to help collectors avoid these problems.

 

In this respect, yes, I am "suggesting that the label color should play a role in determining value." Or, at any rate, I'm suggesting that it does determine value to the extent that the same book in a blue label, even with extensive label notes, is likely to sell for more than it does in a purple label -- for the reasons noted above.

 

With respect to the effect on the prices of currently blue books of placing formerly purple books in blue labels, here is the argument: I find it hard to believe that the switch to a blue label would have no effect on the value of a formerly purple label book. (If it would have no effect, why are people advocating the change? For purely aesthetic reasons?)

 

If formerly purple label books become more desirable, how can the result not be to reduce the demand for currently blue label books? Consider someone who is on the fence between buying, say, a Batman 1 5.0 blue label for $75,000 or a purple label 7.0 for $40,000. If the purple 7.0 is transformed into a blue label 7.0 (with extensive label notes) and that change tips the buyer into buying the book, well that's one less person in the market for the blue label 5.0.

 

The only way I can see the "rising tide lifts all boats" argument working is if the change from purple labels to blue labels attracts significant numbers of new collectors to the market. Possible, I suppose, but seems unlikely to me.

[Tri-Color Brian]

It is a conundrum...