Action Comics #2 CGC 9.4

[Sqeggs]

The reason those slight amount of ct or glue books ended up in bluevlabels and not purple is because the 'resto' on those books does not increase the grade, so it's not really 'restored' in that sense. The ct and glue is incidental and is factored in as a defect when the book is graded.

 

In my opinion it would be unfortunate to put a book like that in a purple holder. If you did, the books would be done a disservice.

 

In this case the label color makes all the difference.

 

Well, the people who did the ct and used glue to repair small spine splits certainly thought they were improving the appearance of these books or they wouldn't have done it. In that sense, resto was performed on the books and they would like have ended up as PLODs if CGC had felt able to do so in the early days.

[Sqeggs]

Beautiful book !

 

With two months still to go before this auction even opens, I wonder how long this thread will end up?

[Jaydogrules]

If it's just the resto bringing down hammer prices, if the label color has nothing to do with it, then all those blue-label Golden Age books with a "very small amount of color touch" should be selling for PLOD-level prices, but they're not. In fact, they repeatedly sell at the same level as truly unrestored copies.

 

There's only one logical takeaway from that. Label color, not just resto, affects hammer prices.

 

I do see those GA books with "very slight- XXXXX" restoration on blue labels going for less. There are many collectors who are on the record saying they will only pay PLOD prices for those books. They do go for more than straight purple labels however, but that's just as likely because the market is factoring in that the "very small amount of"-whatever can be removed with minimal or no damage to the book in grade. The greater the restoration the greater the discount regardless of the label, and as stated on those GA "blue labels" those books always have a very small amount.

 

-J.

 

I don't believe this is true. Apart from you, I've never heard anyone make such a statement.

 

You should have a visit over to the "grading and restoration" and CG sections. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[Sqeggs]

If it's just the resto bringing down hammer prices, if the label color has nothing to do with it, then all those blue-label Golden Age books with a "very small amount of color touch" should be selling for PLOD-level prices, but they're not. In fact, they repeatedly sell at the same level as truly unrestored copies.

 

There's only one logical takeaway from that. Label color, not just resto, affects hammer prices.

 

I do see those GA books with "very slight- XXXXX" restoration on blue labels going for less. There are many collectors who are on the record saying they will only pay PLOD prices for those books. They do go for more than straight purple labels however, but that's just as likely because the market is factoring in that the "very small amount of"-whatever can be removed with minimal or no damage to the book in grade. The greater the restoration the greater the discount regardless of the label, and as stated on those GA "blue labels" those books always have a very small amount.

 

-J.

 

I don't believe this is true. Apart from you, I've never heard anyone make such a statement.

 

You should have a visit over to the "grading and restoration" and CG sections. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I'm skeptical that many people in those threads are buying the kind of scarce, high-grade GA books we are talking about here.

[Jaydogrules]

FYI, a highly respected source that viewed this book prior to cgc encapsulation, confirmed that the cover is indeed, chemically cleaned

 

Thank you for that info GAtor. The "conserved" label is a bit of a red herring. This book is a PLOD and I believe the market at large will treat it as such.

 

But with such scant CGC sales data on the book in general, this auction really could go either way.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

If it's just the resto bringing down hammer prices, if the label color has nothing to do with it, then all those blue-label Golden Age books with a "very small amount of color touch" should be selling for PLOD-level prices, but they're not. In fact, they repeatedly sell at the same level as truly unrestored copies.

 

There's only one logical takeaway from that. Label color, not just resto, affects hammer prices.

 

I do see those GA books with "very slight- XXXXX" restoration on blue labels going for less. There are many collectors who are on the record saying they will only pay PLOD prices for those books. They do go for more than straight purple labels however, but that's just as likely because the market is factoring in that the "very small amount of"-whatever can be removed with minimal or no damage to the book in grade. The greater the restoration the greater the discount regardless of the label, and as stated on those GA "blue labels" those books always have a very small amount.

 

-J.

 

I don't believe this is true. Apart from you, I've never heard anyone make such a statement.

 

You should have a visit over to the "grading and restoration" and CG sections. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I'm skeptical that many people in those threads are buying the kind of scarce, high-grade GA books we are talking about here.

 

I cannot speak for the full breadth of anyone's collection I am simply recounting some of the conversations I have seen about "blue label restored books". And at least one of those boardies is a large and reputable GA dealer. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[Gotham Kid]

If it's just the resto bringing down hammer prices, if the label color has nothing to do with it, then all those blue-label Golden Age books with a "very small amount of color touch" should be selling for PLOD-level prices, but they're not. In fact, they repeatedly sell at the same level as truly unrestored copies.

 

There's only one logical takeaway from that. Label color, not just resto, affects hammer prices.

 

I do see those GA books with "very slight- XXXXX" restoration on blue labels going for less. There are many collectors who are on the record saying they will only pay PLOD prices for those books. They do go for more than straight purple labels however, but that's just as likely because the market is factoring in that the "very small amount of"-whatever can be removed with minimal or no damage to the book in grade. The greater the restoration the greater the discount regardless of the label, and as stated on those GA "blue labels" those books always have a very small amount.

 

-J.

 

I don't believe this is true. Apart from you, I've never heard anyone make such a statement.

 

You should have a visit over to the "grading and restoration" and CG sections. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I'm skeptical that many people in those threads are buying the kind of scarce, high-grade GA books we are talking about here.

 

This

[Jaydogrules]

If it's just the resto bringing down hammer prices, if the label color has nothing to do with it, then all those blue-label Golden Age books with a "very small amount of color touch" should be selling for PLOD-level prices, but they're not. In fact, they repeatedly sell at the same level as truly unrestored copies.

 

There's only one logical takeaway from that. Label color, not just resto, affects hammer prices.

 

I do see those GA books with "very slight- XXXXX" restoration on blue labels going for less. There are many collectors who are on the record saying they will only pay PLOD prices for those books. They do go for more than straight purple labels however, but that's just as likely because the market is factoring in that the "very small amount of"-whatever can be removed with minimal or no damage to the book in grade. The greater the restoration the greater the discount regardless of the label, and as stated on those GA "blue labels" those books always have a very small amount.

 

-J.

 

I don't believe this is true. Apart from you, I've never heard anyone make such a statement.

 

You should have a visit over to the "grading and restoration" and CG sections. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I'm skeptical that many people in those threads are buying the kind of scarce, high-grade GA books we are talking about here.

 

This

 

Haven't a few guys also alluded to it even in this thread ?

 

-J.

[VintageComics]

The reason those slight amount of ct or glue books ended up in bluevlabels and not purple is because the 'resto' on those books does not increase the grade, so it's not really 'restored' in that sense. The ct and glue is incidental and is factored in as a defect when the book is graded.

 

In my opinion it would be unfortunate to put a book like that in a purple holder. If you did, the books would be done a disservice.

 

In this case the label color makes all the difference.

 

Well, the people who did the ct and used glue to repair small spine splits certainly thought they were improving the appearance of these books or they wouldn't have done it. In that sense, resto was performed on the books and they would like have ended up as PLODs if CGC had felt able to do so in the early days.

 

I agree that a large portion of the books were likely touched up for improvement, but there arebalso plenty of books that may have glue or a pen marking on them and there was no intention to improve the grade, and I can think of several examples which could be representative of them.

 

The first that comes to mind is my old Detroit Trolley Marvel Mystery Comics #4. It was a CGC 4.0, in a blue label, and the book was accompanied with letters from Susan Cicconi, and two other resto experts who ALL agreed that there was no color touch on the book. They argued it was either a printing defect or a foreign substance on the edge of the cover. CGC didn't care. They called it CT, downgraded the book for it (it would have graded a 4.5 otherwise) and put it in a blue label. Now, you tell me : did this book belong in a purple label?

 

The book has passed through several boards members and each of us were happy to pay full pop for the book.

 

Another is the Classic Captain Marvel cover that GAtor owned. From what I remember, he dropped a blue pen on a blue cover by accident and the book ended up with a CT designation. Maybe GAtor can elaborate as I don't remember the label color.

 

Finally, it's somewhat common knowledge that some old time collectors would put either tape or nail polish on books that didn't need it to make the spines last longer. Heck, I owned a set of SA JIM books where the entire margin of the cover was covered in tape. The book was new itherwise.

 

That tape falls off over time or the book ages and falls below the intended target grade that it was at and then voila, you have all sorts of glue or color on books where the work doesn't improve the grade.

 

Anyhow, I just wanted to illustrate how books can have CT and glue designations, without intent to restore...and THAT to me is a terrific reason for a well stepped designation system so that the book gets the best designation possible without being wrong. To put any of the above books into a purple label is just not right IMO?

[Mmehdy]

The cgc seems to let more and more restoration of a blue label book... Getting in the pressing business did not help...? end the joke of what is or what is not altering the book... Buyer beware...especially paying multiples of guide for a blue label

[VintageComics]

The cgc seems to let more and more restoration of a blue label book...

 

How do you figure? They seem to be consistant that CT and glue (or glue residue) are only allowed in a blue label if it doesn't improve the grade. In fact, they count the foreign substance as a defect against the grade.

 

Have you seen differently?

[nearmint]

If it's just the resto bringing down hammer prices, if the label color has nothing to do with it, then all those blue-label Golden Age books with a "very small amount of color touch" should be selling for PLOD-level prices, but they're not. In fact, they repeatedly sell at the same level as truly unrestored copies.

 

There's only one logical takeaway from that. Label color, not just resto, affects hammer prices.

 

I do see those GA books with "very slight- XXXXX" restoration on blue labels going for less. There are many collectors who are on the record saying they will only pay PLOD prices for those books. They do go for more than straight purple labels however, but that's just as likely because the market is factoring in that the "very small amount of"-whatever can be removed with minimal or no damage to the book in grade. The greater the restoration the greater the discount regardless of the label, and as stated on those GA "blue labels" those books always have a very small amount.

 

-J.

 

I don't believe this is true. Apart from you, I've never heard anyone make such a statement.

 

You should have a visit over to the "grading and restoration" and CG sections. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I'm skeptical that many people in those threads are buying the kind of scarce, high-grade GA books we are talking about here.

 

This

 

Haven't a few guys also alluded to it even in this thread ?

 

-J.

 

It doesn't matter what people "say" on the boards. You have to look at the data. GPA and auction results show that blue label books with the "very small amount" notation sell at prices roughly equivalent to blue label books without the notation. They sell for FAR more than a PLOD of the same book in the same grade.

[woowoo]

Wow after 40 years have had most of the key Goldenage books unrestored and restored and i think i am close to being an expert as 99% of you guys on this stuff.

 

Now after reading what i could on this thread i feel like i learned nothing in 40 years Thanks guys. I need to start all over Marvel stamps and all.

[jimjum12]

I purchased an Adventure Comics 75 CGC 6.0 through a Heritage auction around 7 years ago. It was blue label "very small amount of glue on spine". The glue keeps a piece from coming off..... it does not improve the appearance in any way. It sold for roughly the same as it would have without the glue. Today it would end up in a conserved label. It's raw now so the distinction is moot. As with any loose piece or tear, sealing it does not change the appearance.... it can still be seen. It keeps the problem from worsening. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Cat-Man_America]

If it's just the resto bringing down hammer prices, if the label color has nothing to do with it, then all those blue-label Golden Age books with a "very small amount of color touch" should be selling for PLOD-level prices, but they're not. In fact, they repeatedly sell at the same level as truly unrestored copies.

 

There's only one logical takeaway from that. Label color, not just resto, affects hammer prices.

 

I do see those GA books with "very slight- XXXXX" restoration on blue labels going for less. There are many collectors who are on the record saying they will only pay PLOD prices for those books. They do go for more than straight purple labels however, but that's just as likely because the market is factoring in that the "very small amount of"-whatever can be removed with minimal or no damage to the book in grade. The greater the restoration the greater the discount regardless of the label, and as stated on those GA "blue labels" those books always have a very small amount.

 

-J.

 

I don't believe this is true. Apart from you, I've never heard anyone make such a statement.

 

You should have a visit over to the "grading and restoration" and CG sections. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Ah yes, Comic General, that bastion of serious discussion.

[Sqeggs]

The reason those slight amount of ct or glue books ended up in bluevlabels and not purple is because the 'resto' on those books does not increase the grade, so it's not really 'restored' in that sense. The ct and glue is incidental and is factored in as a defect when the book is graded.

 

In my opinion it would be unfortunate to put a book like that in a purple holder. If you did, the books would be done a disservice.

 

In this case the label color makes all the difference.

 

Well, the people who did the ct and used glue to repair small spine splits certainly thought they were improving the appearance of these books or they wouldn't have done it. In that sense, resto was performed on the books and they would like have ended up as PLODs if CGC had felt able to do so in the early days.

 

I agree that a large portion of the books were likely touched up for improvement, but there arebalso plenty of books that may have glue or a pen marking on them and there was no intention to improve the grade, and I can think of several examples which could be representative of them.

 

The first that comes to mind is my old Detroit Trolley Marvel Mystery Comics #4. It was a CGC 4.0, in a blue label, and the book was accompanied with letters from Susan Cicconi, and two other resto experts who ALL agreed that there was no color touch on the book. They argued it was either a printing defect or a foreign substance on the edge of the cover. CGC didn't care. They called it CT, downgraded the book for it (it would have graded a 4.5 otherwise) and put it in a blue label. Now, you tell me : did this book belong in a purple label?

 

The book has passed through several boards members and each of us were happy to pay full pop for the book.

 

Another is the Classic Captain Marvel cover that GAtor owned. From what I remember, he dropped a blue pen on a blue cover by accident and the book ended up with a CT designation. Maybe GAtor can elaborate as I don't remember the label color.

 

Finally, it's somewhat common knowledge that some old time collectors would put either tape or nail polish on books that didn't need it to make the spines last longer. Heck, I owned a set of SA JIM books where the entire margin of the cover was covered in tape. The book was new itherwise.

 

That tape falls off over time or the book ages and falls below the intended target grade that it was at and then voila, you have all sorts of glue or color on books where the work doesn't improve the grade.

 

Anyhow, I just wanted to illustrate how books can have CT and glue designations, without intent to restore...and THAT to me is a terrific reason for a well stepped designation system so that the book gets the best designation possible without being wrong. To put any of the above books into a purple label is just not right IMO?

 

Oh sure, there are books -- mostly mid-grade and below -- that were taped up for purposes of improving readability. I did that to more than a few GA books because I was collecting them to read in those days when reprints weren't readily available. Taping up a popped staple or spine split made it easier to read the book without damaging it further. Of course, these days no one would do that because everyone has his eye on resale value and long-term preservation and tape obviously degrades the book.

 

I think the focus of the discussion here, though, is on high-grade books that had minor defects -- a spine tick, a small spine split, a tiny piece hanging by a thread. The ct and glue on these books was definitely intended to improve their appearance. In that sense, they are restored books in blue labels.

[Sqeggs]

The cgc seems to let more and more restoration of a blue label book...

 

How do you figure? They seem to be consistant that CT and glue (or glue residue) are only allowed in a blue label if it doesn't improve the grade. In fact, they count the foreign substance as a defect against the grade.

 

Have you seen differently?

 

Are you sure about this? Is this their public position? If it were true across the board, I would think we would see the minor amount of ct or glue label notes on more blue label SA books, when in fact we rarely if ever see it on those books.

[drbanner]

The cgc seems to let more and more restoration of a blue label book... Getting in the pressing business did not help.

Yep, and everyone knew that as soon as CGC started pressing books in-house before grading them that the boundary had been crossed. Now it looks like it's not just pressed books, it's whatever else they decide they can do to books and still put them in blue labels...their choice!

[Cat-Man_America]

The cgc seems to let more and more restoration of a blue label book...

 

How do you figure? They seem to be consistant that CT and glue (or glue residue) are only allowed in a blue label if it doesn't improve the grade. In fact, they count the foreign substance as a defect against the grade.

 

Have you seen differently?

 

Are you sure about this? Is this their public position? If it were true across the board, I would think we would see the minor amount of ct or glue label notes on more blue label SA books, when in fact we rarely if ever see it on those books.

 

While CGC grading of SA & GA is theoretically the same, there is a big difference between pre-code GA and post-code SA to Modern books due to surviving quantities, construction, PQ, storage and aging of the books. Should these factors be given any consideration in evaluating grades and labels? That's certainly a worthwhile topic for discussion.

 

Although not necessarily applicable, in the antiquities trade, rarity, age and fragility of a collectible is usually taken into account and given greater latitude when evaluating conservation/restoration measures. Should comics be assessed in a similar manner? That's a very good question.

[Mmehdy]

The cgc seems to let more and more restoration of a blue label book...

 

How do you figure? They seem to be consistant that CT and glue (or glue residue) are only allowed in a blue label if it doesn't improve the grade. In fact, they count the foreign substance as a defect against the grade.

 

Have you seen differently?

 

I don't see anything differently, that the CGC you are talking about....

 

Restored should be just that....whether its putting tape on a chip. pressing a book like a grilled cheese sandwich on a grill, or painting it with a spray can.....now you can clean and polish it.....whatever that means...and it is unrestored...even though you are intending to make the book better or cleaner that the original condition....what a croc.....some books get purple, some green, and some restored books get blue...stop the madness....give every book a even playing field chance.....

 

Because VC...you know this is just the beginning of the erosion of the blue label...who knows what is gonna be ok next?.