SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING starring Tom Holland (7/28/17) 3 3

[reddwarf666222]

2 hours ago, Marwood & I said:

 

I think it's obvious why it's not doing the numbers Marvel were hoping for. It's just not a very good film. I saw the first two Raimi films several times at the cinema. Twice on one day. They were great films with heart, strong characterisation, good plots and clever action scenes. Homecoming (I hate that title) was none of these things and it wouldn't bother me if I ever saw it again.  I don't actually remember much about it, so underwhelming it was. Did it not start with a home video from Peter that went on for ages? What a terrible way to open a film. 

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that the 15 year old me would not have liked it either. A few admittedly quirkily scripted scenes do not add up to a satisfying whole. Where was the drama?  Where was the game changing "whoah" scene? Where was the danger? Marvel were supposed to be 'bringing Spidey home' so the expectation for a satisfying tale was high. I can't begin to say how badly they did it, and how poorly conceived the whole film was.

But I'll try if anyone wants to goad me! ?

You don't like the film, but the critics did and the public did. The film is rated higher than Wonder Woman on IMDb.com So your logic for your argument falls apart.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

14 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

You don't like the film, but the critics did and the public did. The film is rated higher than Wonder Woman on IMDb.com So your logic for your argument falls apart.

 

Bugger. 

[reddwarf666222]

3 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

I think it's also being considered a.... well, it's not a failure, but a minor disappointment, because Spider-man sells more merchandise than ANY American Superhero in the world... so his movies, should do Batman numbers....

They DID, when TM played the part and Sam Raimi was directing... adjusted for inflation, even the 3rd movie almost broke $400MiL domestic.

And I'm tired of the reboot excuse....

Rebooted Batfleck in BVS broke $300Mil domestic, something this movie won't do.  Can it even beat Man of Steel's $291MiL domestic? Weren't the Dark Knight movies reboots? They ROCKED the box office.

Marvel looks at Spider-man as their number one selling franchise worldwide, they have to be wondering why the movies aren't making more money.

https://www.newsarama.com/22711-spider-man-marvel-dominates-batman-dc-in-licensing-revenue.html

Chuck the reboot, remake, sequel, and even comic film fatigue is truly what has been happening for the last few years. It is showing at the box office 

[Get Marwood & I]

6 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Chuck the reboot, remake, sequel, and even comic film fatigue is truly what has been happening for the last few years. It is showing at the box office 

Now you've done it.

[Artboy99]

10 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Chuck the reboot, remake, sequel, and even comic film fatigue is truly what has been happening for the last few years. It is showing at the box office 

totally agree.

[ComicConnoisseur]

22 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Chuck the reboot, remake, sequel, and even comic film fatigue is truly what has been happening for the last few years. It is showing at the box office 

Wouldn't it be interesting if the Venom movie that comes out next year beats ASM:Homecoming at the box office domestically?

It wouldn't surprise me.

I kind of agree comic film fatigue. I think this will not only affect Spider-Man,but Superman and Batman as well. The newness of them getting films made has worn off. 

An example is if I go to see the Justice League movie it will because of Aquaman and not Affleck Batman believe it or not.

The three characters Spider-Man, Bat-Man, and Superman are starting to show their age.

They had an amazing run with their peak at the top was in 2007/2008 box office wise.

Not many characters have had 50 to 70 years runs at the top like that.

Times are changing. We the audience are changing.

I know I am more excited to see a Venom vs. Carnage movie and Doctor Doom movie than the next Spider-Man and Fantastic Four movies.

Edited July 22, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[jsilverjanet]

If the other movie studios were smart they'd take advantage with the countless other properties outside the big two. There are a lot of great stories out in the comic world that break the traditional role

[Artboy99]

6 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Wouldn't it be interesting if the Venom movie that comes out next year beats ASM:Homecoming at the box office domestically?

It wouldn't surprise me.

I kind of agree comic film fatigue. I think this will not only affect Spider-Man,but Superman and Batman as well. The newness of them getting films made has worn off. 

An example is if I go to see the Justice League movie it will because of Aquaman and not Affleck Batman believe it or not.

The three characters Spider-Man, Bat-Man, and Superman are starting to show their age.

They had an amazing run with their peak at the top was in 2007/2008 box office wise.

Not many characters have had 50 to 70 years runs at the top like that.

Times are changing. We the audience are changing.

I know I am more excited to see a Venom vs. Carnage movie and Doctor Doom movie than the next Spider-Man and Fantastic Four movies.

I agree, but only if the movies are of top quality with excellent character and a well written story.

[reddwarf666222]

18 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

If the other movie studios were smart they'd take advantage with the countless other properties outside the big two. There are a lot of great stories out in the comic world that break the traditional role

You can't have 17 films coming out that fit in this category in a year and expect the audience to not get bored. That is what is happening this year. We have seen the story, action, and similar characters to where it is nothing new.

Liefeld called the studios last year out saying they are getting complacent. Comic films are the new westerns. 

Yet to make matters worse we have 50 films that are sequels, reboots, and remakes. They are not giving us anything new and treating the moviegoers like they are zombies. It's funny when I go to the art house theater and see comedies there that would have been big pictures 10 years ago

[Prince Namor]

When did comic movie fatigue start?

Well we started it as an excuse for the Garfield Spidey movies… why then is this 2nd reboot (3rd Spidey) going to do more than the first reboot?

If people are comic movie fatigued, why is GOTG2 going to do (IS doing) more than the original?

Why is Iron Man 3, even with the others adjusted for inflation, the highest grossing Iron Man movie?

Why did the 2nd reboot of Superman (the 3rd Superman) end up as the #2 highest grossing  (adjusted for inflation) Superman movie ever?

And then BVS do even more than that?

Batman Begins was the 2nd reboot, and the Dark Knight movies, even adjusted for inflation out pace all of them.

Sure, when you put the FIFTH guy to play Batman against the THIRD guy to play Superman into the same movie, it ended up disappointing….

 

I’m not saying there isn’t some form of superhero fatigue… I just think if you make a great movie, people will go see it. 

Spider-man: Homecoming is fun, it’s just not a great movie.

[oakman29]

16 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

When did comic movie fatigue start?

Well we started it as an excuse for the Garfield Spidey movies… why then is this 2nd reboot (3rd Spidey) going to do more than the first reboot?

If people are comic movie fatigued, why is GOTG2 going to do (IS doing) more than the original?

Why is Iron Man 3, even with the others adjusted for inflation, the highest grossing Iron Man movie?

Why did the 2nd reboot of Superman (the 3rd Superman) end up as the #2 highest grossing  (adjusted for inflation) Superman movie ever?

And then BVS do even more than that?

Batman Begins was the 2nd reboot, and the Dark Knight movies, even adjusted for inflation out pace all of them.

Sure, when you put the FIFTH guy to play Batman against the THIRD guy to play Superman into the same movie, it ended up disappointing….

 

I’m not saying there isn’t some form of superhero fatigue… I just think if you make a great movie, people will go see it. 

Spider-man: Homecoming is fun, it’s just not a great movie.

Bravo.

 

[reddwarf666222]

23 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

When did comic movie fatigue start?

Well we started it as an excuse for the Garfield Spidey movies… why then is this 2nd reboot (3rd Spidey) going to do more than the first reboot?

If people are comic movie fatigued, why is GOTG2 going to do (IS doing) more than the original?

Why is Iron Man 3, even with the others adjusted for inflation, the highest grossing Iron Man movie?

Why did the 2nd reboot of Superman (the 3rd Superman) end up as the #2 highest grossing  (adjusted for inflation) Superman movie ever?

And then BVS do even more than that?

Batman Begins was the 2nd reboot, and the Dark Knight movies, even adjusted for inflation out pace all of them.

Sure, when you put the FIFTH guy to play Batman against the THIRD guy to play Superman into the same movie, it ended up disappointing….

 

I’m not saying there isn’t some form of superhero fatigue… I just think if you make a great movie, people will go see it. 

Spider-man: Homecoming is fun, it’s just not a great movie.

The fatigue started last year like I previously stated. SO Iron Man 3, Batman Begins, and Man of Steal don't count.

Why is the new reboot of Spidey doing better? Hmm it's now apart of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Robert Downey Jr., and you may need some info for Avengers 3. Bigger Audience for the film now. In general we were not begging for another Spidey film. 

GOTG2 is not your typical superhero film and the first film was this generation's Star Wars. So it is an outlier you can't use for comparison because that concept is still fresh.

BVS really? That film should have done so much better considering DC's big three was in it, but the film was received so bad critically by fans and critics that it only got 330 mil. Shows why Wonder Woman had a slow start having to recover from that film.

Movie goers in general are just not showing up domestically for these films after the first week and keeping them lasting. Sure WW is an exception, but we had asked for that film for over 20 years. You get exceptions like Deadpool, but that film was unique and original. Logan is also an exception, but Jackman was playing the role for one last time essentially ending the original X-Men era.

[Flash & Fury]

I finally saw it a few days ago & totally enjoyed it.  The younger Peter Parker reminded me of the early ASM storylines when he was in high school & full of angst but still naive & hopeful.  The later Romita stories when he was in college were my favorites but I thought this was a nice throwback to the original concept.

[Bosco685]

[WeR138]

I  was pleasantly surprised.  It definitely isn't the spider-man that I grew up reading,  but it wasn't the teen angst Disney series garbage that I was half-expecting to see.  

EXCEPT, for the MJ scenes.  Every time this poor actress opened her mouth, they had something ridiculous for her to say.  Thank goodness they only gave her about 10 minutes screen time.

As others have said, a good, fun, (not great) movie.   

 

 

[Prince Namor]

13 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

The fatigue started last year like I previously stated. SO Iron Man 3, Batman Begins, and Man of Steal don't count.

Why is the new reboot of Spidey doing better? Hmm it's now apart of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Robert Downey Jr., and you may need some info for Avengers 3. Bigger Audience for the film now. In general we were not begging for another Spidey film. 

GOTG2 is not your typical superhero film and the first film was this generation's Star Wars. So it is an outlier you can't use for comparison because that concept is still fresh.

BVS really? That film should have done so much better considering DC's big three was in it, but the film was received so bad critically by fans and critics that it only got 330 mil. Shows why Wonder Woman had a slow start having to recover from that film.

Movie goers in general are just not showing up domestically for these films after the first week and keeping them lasting. Sure WW is an exception, but we had asked for that film for over 20 years. You get exceptions like Deadpool, but that film was unique and original. Logan is also an exception, but Jackman was playing the role for one last time essentially ending the original X-Men era.

Sounds like everything is an exception except for the movies you want to use as an example. 

And the use of comic movie fatigue started with the Garfield Spider-man's, you can go back and see the thread about it. 

What about some other 'exceptions'?

Suicide Squad, Doctor Strange, and even ANT-MAN! Domestically, Ant-man made $50 million over its  budget, ran for 5 MONTHS, and broke half a million dollars in its worldwide gross.

Freaking Ant-man.

If you make a good enough superhero movie, people will go see it. 

The 'fatigue' is for lame movies. 

Edited July 23, 2017 by Chuck Gower

[Jaydogrules]

 

6 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Thanks Boscoe! So.....in about 3 weeks, wonder woman, in a virtually wide open market place, made  $600MM.

Meanwhile, in the most competitive period at the box office so far this year , Homecoming has made  $571MM (just 29MM less) and the Apes movie, which was foolishly released one week after Homecoming, pays the price and plummets all the way to #4, behind Homecoming, which is #3 behind two brand new movies, both of which exceeded expectations, only one of which (Dunkirk) has a chance at any real legs.

Methinks Spidey is just fine.  

Homecoming was designed to be a smaller focused, character-centric story.  It would have benefited from a 30 minute shorter run time, but then that could also be said about Wonder Woman and most other 2 hour + super hero movies.  Also, the actress playing "MJ" was absolutely vile, as was the character.  Hopefully the near universal scorn she has received will prompt Marvel to dump any notions that she is "Mary Jane", and quite frankly, the actress altogether.  What an absolutely miserable person she was, just completely wrecked the time of the movie every time she sullied the screen. Yuck!

-J.

[oakman29]

I certainly hope they give some of the cutting room tidbits when the DVD comes out.

This movie to me seemed choppy and unrelatable, I never felt invested in any character.

It just seemed soulless. I will probably give it a second chance, and watch it on T.V. 

[Prince Namor]

9 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Homecoming was designed to be a smaller focused, character-centric story.  

Uh....no.

Spider-man is Marvel's BIGGEST selling character. He makes more merchandising money for them than ALL of the other characters combined.

It stands to reason his MOVIES should be the biggest.

Kevin Feige: “Spider-Man is the biggest Marvel character. He is the jewel in the crown. Such an amazing icon. He’s a very different kind of hero because he is, quite simply, the greatest superhero of all-time.” 

Is Spidey 'Just fine'?

Yes. He's going to do well enough. But they expected a LOT more.

For the 'jewel in the crown' of Marvel to be doing HALF of what Wonder Woman was doing in the third week, says a lot. Wonder Woman did $40 Million in it's 3rd weekend, compared to Homecoming's $22 Million. Even GOTG2, the SEQUEL, did $34.5 Million.

Great opening. No legs. 

[Jaydogrules]

 

I'm trying figure out why you are choosing to couch the numbers in those terms.  

In reality, Homecoming (at $571M) has grossed about $50M more than GOTG did in its first 17 days: 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/05/11/box-office-guardians-of-the-galaxy-2-has-crossed-500-million-worldwide/#39cc3f743734

And is only off Wonder Woman pace (a movie that had universal, relentless, near hyperventilating media coverage and critical fawning and a virtually wide open playing field for 4 weeks) by about $30M, after 3 weeks:

https://www.google.com/amp/variety.com/2017/film/box-office/wonder-woman-crosses-600-million-at-worldwide-box-office-1202475933/amp/

Homecoming may have been more front loaded, but again, it was also released during the most competitive period in the summer, and it's STILL hitting good numbers. Would Marvel have liked this to make a billion+ dollars ?  Of course.  I don't know how likely they thought that was though, especially considering the fact that Spidey's earlier, much ballyhooed extended appearance and de-facto origin story in Civil War probably goosed that movie's box office by AT LEAST $100M.  At the end of the day, I don't think Marvel is crying in its beer in the least on this one.   

-J.