SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING starring Tom Holland (7/28/17) 3 3

[fantastic_four]

22 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Is it fresh if we are getting all these Comic films out in one year. It becomes a chore to watch them all of that is your intention. I felt I hit the wall last year in a marathon with Civil War. Sure a few films have been outliers like Wonder Woman, Deadpool, and Spider-Man. Yet what we end up with is an overcrowded market that makes the usual comic film nothing special. Films are just not performing well because in the long run we are not being given anything new or groundbreaking.

No, but if anyone has a problem with that then don't go see them.  I'm tired of non-fans person_without_enough_empathying about all the superhero films when the solution is simple--just don't go, and stop your whining.  The volume of films is for us hardcore superhero fans who long for a world where comic book movies come out as often as comic books themselves used to come out.

Mostly I see critics doing the person_without_enough_empathying, but I'm immune to it.  All it means to me when I hear a critic make that complaint is that I shouldn't listen to any review your boss made you do for that movie.

[Prince Namor]

10 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

The reason this movie is not doing as well as it could have is because hardly anyone was asking for this film. The film itself was a critical success, but no one was begging for a a reboot, remake, or sequel.

Unlike Wonder Woman we had as a public been asking for that film for 20 years. Make a film that women in general want to see making it almost a 50/50 split for gender seeing the film is unusual.

That makes no sense.... after Civil War, the excitement for a new Spider-man was talked about everywhere, including here on these boards. 

What people DIDN'T want was the FIRST reboot, which ended up doing only $62 Million at the box office it's opening weekend, but had enough legs to do $262 Mill (on a $230 Mill budget - eek!)....

THIS reboot, that you say no one wanted.... did almost DOUBLE the opening weekend - $117 Million - the 5th largest opening weekend in July ever.... seems like SOMEONE wanted to see it. 

As I've stated though... it doesn't have the legs to sustain it, like the other 5 top weekend grossing movies of July, they went on to do BIG NUMBERS. 

Homecoming's drop is NOT a sign of too much competition, but rather a sign of... just not a good enough movie.

Example - The OTHER TOP 4 July Opening Movies:

1. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Part 2 (July 2011) $169 Million opening weekend (vs Transformers: Dark of the Moon which would go on to do $350 Million domestic, and Captain America First Avenger which would go on to do $176 Million and in it's 4th week; Rise of the Planet of the Apes - another $176 Million. Vert stiff competition it handled)

2. Dark Knight Rises (July 2012) $160 Million opening weekend (vs Amazing Spider-man which would do $262 Million, Ice Age: Continental Drift - $117 Mil, Ted at $218 Mill, and in it's 4th week, the Bourne Legacy at $113 Million. Very stiff.)

3. Dark Knight (July 2008) $158 Million (vs Hancock at $227 Mil, Mama Mia at $144 Mil, Step Brothers and the Mummy bot over $100 Mill and in the 5th week - Tropic Thunder at another $110 Mil.) Still kicked butt.

4. Well... you get the point.

THIS Spider-man, may not (probably won't) break $300 Million domestically, and that would make it the ONLY top July opening weekend grossing movie in the TOP 11, that DIDN'T. Because, even though people don't DISLIKE it, they don't like it ENOUGH to tell people they HAVE to go see it.

It doesn't have legs.
 

[Callaway29]

3 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

That makes no sense.... after Civil War, the excitement for a new Spider-man was talked about everywhere, including here on these boards. 

What people DIDN'T want was the FIRST reboot, which ended up doing only $62 Million at the box office it's opening weekend, but had enough legs to do $262 Mill (on a $230 Mill budget - eek!)....

THIS reboot, that you say no one wanted.... did almost DOUBLE the opening weekend - $117 Million - the 5th largest opening weekend in July ever.... seems like SOMEONE wanted to see it. 

As I've stated though... it doesn't have the legs to sustain it, like the other 5 top weekend grossing movies of July, they went on to do BIG NUMBERS. 

Homecoming's drop is NOT a sign of too much competition, but rather a sign of... just not a good enough movie.

Example - The OTHER TOP 4 July Opening Movies:

1. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Part 2 (July 2011) $169 Million opening weekend (vs Transformers: Dark of the Moon which would go on to do $350 Million domestic, and Captain America First Avenger which would go on to do $176 Million and in it's 4th week; Rise of the Planet of the Apes - another $176 Million. Vert stiff competition it handled)

2. Dark Knight Rises (July 2012) $160 Million opening weekend (vs Amazing Spider-man which would do $262 Million, Ice Age: Continental Drift - $117 Mil, Ted at $218 Mill, and in it's 4th week, the Bourne Legacy at $113 Million. Very stiff.)

3. Dark Knight (July 2008) $158 Million (vs Hancock at $227 Mil, Mama Mia at $144 Mil, Step Brothers and the Mummy bot over $100 Mill and in the 5th week - Tropic Thunder at another $110 Mil.) Still kicked butt.

4. Well... you get the point.

THIS Spider-man, may not (probably won't) break $300 Million domestically, and that would make it the ONLY top July opening weekend grossing movie in the TOP 11, that DIDN'T. Because, even though people don't DISLIKE it, they don't like it ENOUGH to tell people they HAVE to go see it.

It doesn't have legs.
 

You know, while my thought process was much more top-level than yours, I had a similar reaction to these discussions. MUCH hyped and anticipated spidey movie fails to impress and the collapse of the movie industry is blamed...haha. Screams confirmation bias, but I didn't want to get a reputation for trolling right out the gates...

[ComicConnoisseur]

1 hour ago, Callaway29 said:

Pirated content doesn't help. Kodi is very prevalent and streams movies that are still in the movie theater, sometimes with shocking quality.

Agreed and very important as to why movies are quickly not going to have the same big blockbuster numbers of just a few years ago. Most people I know under age of 30 stream stuff from China and they don't seem to have the same ethic code about downloading stuff for free because they grew up in a culture that it's cool to download stuff,so they have no qualms about doing it . The quality of this kind of streaming amazed me when my generation z nephews showed me the blockbuster movies they watch for free. They come a long way from cheap dvds where people stand up in the crowds blocking the views.

Also when I mean different entertainment values an example is this

pre-ordered it for under $50 from Amazon.

what gives me a better value a game like this I can play many times or go see Spider-Man Homecoming once?

[reddwarf666222]

1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

That makes no sense.... after Civil War, the excitement for a new Spider-man was talked about everywhere, including here on these boards. 

What people DIDN'T want was the FIRST reboot, which ended up doing only $62 Million at the box office it's opening weekend, but had enough legs to do $262 Mill (on a $230 Mill budget - eek!)....

THIS reboot, that you say no one wanted.... did almost DOUBLE the opening weekend - $117 Million - the 5th largest opening weekend in July ever.... seems like SOMEONE wanted to see it. 

As I've stated though... it doesn't have the legs to sustain it, like the other 5 top weekend grossing movies of July, they went on to do BIG NUMBERS. 

Homecoming's drop is NOT a sign of too much competition, but rather a sign of... just not a good enough movie.

Example - The OTHER TOP 4 July Opening Movies:

1. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Part 2 (July 2011) $169 Million opening weekend (vs Transformers: Dark of the Moon which would go on to do $350 Million domestic, and Captain America First Avenger which would go on to do $176 Million and in it's 4th week; Rise of the Planet of the Apes - another $176 Million. Vert stiff competition it handled)

2. Dark Knight Rises (July 2012) $160 Million opening weekend (vs Amazing Spider-man which would do $262 Million, Ice Age: Continental Drift - $117 Mil, Ted at $218 Mill, and in it's 4th week, the Bourne Legacy at $113 Million. Very stiff.)

3. Dark Knight (July 2008) $158 Million (vs Hancock at $227 Mil, Mama Mia at $144 Mil, Step Brothers and the Mummy bot over $100 Mill and in the 5th week - Tropic Thunder at another $110 Mil.) Still kicked butt.

4. Well... you get the point.

THIS Spider-man, may not (probably won't) break $300 Million domestically, and that would make it the ONLY top July opening weekend grossing movie in the TOP 11, that DIDN'T. Because, even though people don't DISLIKE it, they don't like it ENOUGH to tell people they HAVE to go see it.

It doesn't have legs.
 

You have to judge the marketplace in a 5 year window. It doesn't matter what Dark Knight, DKR, or HP did it is a very different marketplace.

Hmm the increase in Spidey tickets is because this film takes place on the Marvel Cinematic Universe and RDJ is in it. You now have to watch this film because it may affect Avengers Infinity War.

 The truth is we are use to these type of films and special effects. The public in general has become bored of them. 

[paperheart]

3 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

You have to judge the marketplace in a 5 year window. It doesn't matter what Dark Knight, DKR, or HP did it is a very different marketplace.

Hmm the increase in Spidey tickets is because this film takes place on the Marvel Cinematic Universe and RDJ is in it. You now have to watch this film because it may affect Avengers Infinity War.

 The truth is we are use to these type of films and special effects. The public in general has become bored of them. 

not to mention the HP is a terrible example because it did a 2.2x multiple of its opening weekend; which is a sign of terrible legs.  SMH will likely do 2.6X, which is about avg for a superhero flick.  GOTG will do 2.7x, WW is a complete outlier as has been discussed to death

[Bosco685]

2 hours ago, paperheart said:

not to mention the HP is a terrible example because it did a 2.2x multiple of its opening weekend; which is a sign of terrible legs.  SMH will likely do 2.6X, which is about avg for a superhero flick.  GOTG will do 2.7x, WW is a complete outlier as has been discussed to death

Oh no. We have a few more weeks of discussion ahead.

[Azkaban]

4 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

No, but if anyone has a problem with that then don't go see them.  I'm tired of non-fans person_without_enough_empathying about all the superhero films when the solution is simple--just don't go, and stop your whining.  The volume of films is for us hardcore superhero fans who long for a world where comic book movies come out as often as comic books themselves used to come out.

Mostly I see critics doing the person_without_enough_empathying, but I'm immune to it.  All it means to me when I hear a critic make that complaint is that I shouldn't listen to any review your boss made you do for that movie.

I grew up reading comics in the early 70's and 80's and never thought in my wildest dreams I would be able to go see them at the movies. I go and see everyone at least once most of the time twice 

[Prince Namor]

5 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

You have to judge the marketplace in a 5 year window. It doesn't matter what Dark Knight, DKR, or HP did it is a very different marketplace.

Uh... Dark Knight Rises makes it within the 5 year window. And where'd THAT rule suddenly appear from?

5 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Hmm the increase in Spidey tickets is because this film takes place on the Marvel Cinematic Universe and RDJ is in it. You now have to watch this film because it may affect Avengers Infinity War.

No, you don't. This movie has nothing to do with that movie. You can skip this movie entirely and be just fine watching the next Avengers movie.

5 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

 The truth is we are use to these type of films and special effects. The public in general has become bored of them. 

They have?

Wonder Woman is going to break $400 Million.... GOTG2 (a sequel) isn't, but $387 Million is the 3rd biggest of the year (and $100 Million more worldwide than the first GOTG!).... Suicide Squad did $345 Million Domestically (more than Man of Steel!).... (even little Doctor Strange did $677 million Worldwide, opening in NOVEMBER!)...ALL in the last 365 DAYS!

Go back through the rest of 2016 and you have Deadpool breaking all expectations at $363 Million Domestically and $783 Million Worldwide (on a $58 Million budget)... Captain America Civil War at $408 Million (1.1 BILLION Worldwide)...

In FACT, 3 of the top 5 movies in the last 365 days are Superhero movies (and another is STAR WARS) and 5 of the Top Ten are Superhero.

In 2017 alone, after Beauty and the Beast in the #1 spot, the next 4 highest grossing movies are SUPERHERO movies.

Bored? Those 4 movies make up about 20% of the entire U.S. Box Office for 2017!!!!

[Prince Namor]

6 hours ago, paperheart said:

not to mention the HP is a terrible example because it did a 2.2x multiple of its opening weekend; which is a sign of terrible legs.  SMH will likely do 2.6X, which is about avg for a superhero flick.  GOTG will do 2.7x, WW is a complete outlier as has been discussed to death

For HP it's actually closer to 2.3, but when you're able to hit numbers like $381 Million domestically and $960 Million JUST Overseas  the multiples of the opening weekend aren't as important - Not bad for the 8TH MOVIE in the franchise.

"Oh no the 8TH MOVIE in the series (why wasn't anyone bored yet?) only did 2.3x it's opening weekend, despite doing almost a BILLION overseas alone, and pulling in more domestically than ANY Harry Potter movie before."

That's called EXCEEDING expectations, son. Maybe someday they'll make a Spidey movie that can say that.

And Harry Potter didn't have legs? It ran through November 24th from a July 15th release.

SMH will be LUCKY to do 2.5 of it's opening... it'd have to have a MAJOR resurgence to break $300 Million. And no way it runs through November, it'll be lucky if it can get a 7 day run schedule by the time September rolls around. Maybe $285 Million domestically. And everyone in China has probably seen it by now... if it flops in that market, it could end up doing less than $400 Million overseas!!!

 

[paperheart]

19 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

For HP it's actually closer to 2.3, but when you're able to hit numbers like $381 Million domestically and $960 Million JUST Overseas  the multiples of the opening weekend aren't as important - Not bad for the 8TH MOVIE in the franchise.

"Oh no the 8TH MOVIE in the series (why wasn't anyone bored yet?) only did 2.3x it's opening weekend, despite doing almost a BILLION overseas alone, and pulling in more domestically than ANY Harry Potter movie before."

That's called EXCEEDING expectations, son. Maybe someday they'll make a Spidey movie that can say that.

And Harry Potter didn't have legs? It ran through November 24th from a July 15th release.

SMH will be LUCKY to do 2.5 of it's opening... it'd have to have a MAJOR resurgence to break $300 Million. And no way it runs through November, it'll be lucky if it can get a 7 day run schedule by the time September rolls around. Maybe $285 Million domestically. And everyone in China has probably seen it by now... if it flops in that market, it could end up doing less than $400 Million overseas!!!

 

condescend much? you couldn't hold my father's jock, person_too_unaware_of_social_graces.  Spider-Man did $800MM WW in 2002; that's $1.2BB adjusted w/ no China.  $285MM domestically, everyone in China has seen it, Japan too i guess

[chezmtghut]

Superhero film Domestic Ranks over the past 10 years (I'm sure I missed a few).

2007:

Spider-Man 3 #1

Fantastic Four: RotSS #18

Ghost Rider #27

2008:

Dark Knight #1

Iron Man #2

Incredible Hulk #17

Hellboy 2 #42

The Spirit #117

Punisher: War Zone #152

2009:

X-Men Origins: Wolverine #13

Watchmen #31

2010:

Iron Man 2 #3

2011:

Thor #10

Captain America #12

X-Men: First Class #17

Green Lantern #24

Green Hornet #32

2012:

Avengers #1

Dark Knight Rises #2

ASM #7

Ghost Rider: SoV #65

2013:

Iron Man 3 #2

Man of Steel #5

Thor: Dark World #12

Wolverine #22

2014:

GOTG #3

Captain America: Winter Soldier #4

X-Men: DoFP #9

ASM 2 #12

TMNT #15

2015:

Avengers: AoU #3

Ant-Man #14

Fantastic Four #53

2016:

Captain America: Civil War #3

Deadpool #6

BvS #8

Suicide Squad #9

Doctor Strange #13

X-Men: Apocalypse #17

TMNT: OotS #37

2017:

Wonder Woman #?

GOTG 2 #?

Spider-Man: Homecoming #?

Logan #?

Thor: Ragnarok #?

Justice League #?

Power Rangers #?

Edited July 26, 2017 by chezmtghut

[Prince Namor]

10 hours ago, paperheart said:

condescend much?

Okay, yes, I was a bit snarky in my response. Or a lot snarky. I apologize.

10 hours ago, paperheart said:

 

you couldn't hold my father's jock, person_too_unaware_of_social_graces. 

Not sure, what that has to do with anything.... no personal attacks were in MY post....

10 hours ago, paperheart said:

Spider-Man did $800MM WW in 2002; that's $1.2BB adjusted w/ no China.  $285MM domestically, everyone in China has seen it, Japan too i guess

We're not talking about the well done Raimi movies here.

We're talking about Homecoming. A movie that's not going to live up to expectations.

You guys can call me names or change the parameters of the argument endlessly, but no one has been able to dispute the points I've made.

The 'Chinese Market' comment, I guess confused you, as it was also in regards to Homecoming. There is a huge bootleg market in Southeast Asia for movies (been to Thailand 3 times this year and they are everywhere!) - the LONGER they wait to open this movie there... quite likely the less it'll do at the box office because a lot of people will have already seen it.

That means that... possibly, Homecoming could end up doing less than $400 Million overseas (not likely, but it could happen), which is really.... bad. Disappointing. NOT living up to expectations. Especially for the 'jewel in Marvel's crown'.

 

I guess your bringing up the 2002 Spider-man is in response to my "Maybe someday they'll make a Spidey movie that can say that."

But see... that phrase is written in future tense, highlighted by the use of 'they'll' (or they will)... as in... something to BE done.

I'm well aware they HAVE. Spider-man 2 is a near GREAT superhero movie, and the first one is pretty darn good as well, I think.

As to if 'they WILL' remains to be seen. Cause Homecoming couldn't hold Harry Potters 8th MOVIE's jock.

[apollobuzz]

2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

As to if 'they WILL' remains to be seen. Cause Homecoming couldn't hold Harry Potters 8th MOVIE's jock.

I see what you did there.  That's funny! 

[jsilverjanet]

Lot of jock holding in this thread

wheres Greggy told hold mine?

Edited July 26, 2017 by jsilverjanet

[Drummy]

My limited take on this issue is that, while I think the film is well-made with a fine lead (3/4 stars for me), it suffers from the following in terms of overall box office:

1.  It's not really new material despite Marvel's efforts.  It doesn't have the anticipation of the Raimi films, and lots of kids have already seen Spider-Man in the theater in the recent past.  The novelty factor, even with Tom Holland, isn't in play as much as Marvel hoped.

2.  It has a lot of competition this summer -- there are many excellent (or at least fun family) films out right now -- I've seen three in the past 10 days (Baby Driver, The Big Sick, and Dunkirk) that were all worth seeing in the theater.  Its legs would have been better without all these options.

3.  The movie starts really early in Peter Parker's 'career', so there's no nostalgic fan service in play.  No Bugle, no JJJ, no MJ/Gwen problems, no origin story (already done twice), no Green Goblin, etc.  My guess is that the sequel will have a lot more 'traditional' SM stuff that people enjoy from our generation's youth.

I'd say financially it's a disappointment, but only compared with some of the high fliers from the past 5 years or so.  Marvel Studios won't be thrilled with the box office, but I also think they feel they made a really good movie to build on.  Their casting in particular continues to be outstanding.

Dan

[Bosco685]

Box Office: With 'Valerian' Vanquished, 'Spider-Man: Homecoming' Can Soar (and wear the jock!)

Quote

Even with a pretty awful 62% second-weekend drop, a record for a Marvel Cinematic Universe movie, Spider-Man: Homecoming isn’t remotely down the count. The Sony reboot earned another $22 million last weekend, a drop of 50%, for a $251m 17-day total. Now that drop isn’t much better than Spider-Man 3 or The Amazing Spider-Man 2, but it’s already well above the $202m domestic total of Amazing Spider-Man 2 and within striking distance of the $262m cume of The Amazing Spider-Man back in 2012.

And now that Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets is not going to be much of a competitor in North America, Peter Parker’s second reboot has the marketed cornered on live-action family entertainment for the next three months.

 

As I noted previously, if Spider-Man: Homecoming proved itself to be crowd-pleasing and kid-friendly, then it would have a monopoly on families and kids seeking live-action big-screen thrills. My nitpicks about the film notwithstanding, it is relatively entertaining and entirely kid-friendly, as it’s arguably the least violent and least intense MCU movie thus far. And as such, it’s going to be the only game in town for quite a while as summer ends on a grim note and the summer leads into an adult-friendly fall season.

 

We aren't getting another “big” live-action, kid-friendly spectacular until Marvel and Walt Disney’s Thor: Ragnarok in early November. That means, unless you want to see Wonder Woman again (because The Mummy and Transformers: The Last Knight are quickly losing theaters), your only real live-action bet for a kid-friendly epic is either Valerian or Spider-Man.

And that will be the Jon Watts-directed movie’s biggest advantage.

 

[Bosco685]

Box Office: With 'Valerian' Vanquished, 'Spider-Man: Homecoming' Can Soar (and wear the jock!)

Quote

Even with a pretty awful 62% second-weekend drop, a record for a Marvel Cinematic Universe movie, Spider-Man: Homecoming isn’t remotely down the count. The Sony reboot earned another $22 million last weekend, a drop of 50%, for a $251m 17-day total. Now that drop isn’t much better than Spider-Man 3 or The Amazing Spider-Man 2, but it’s already well above the $202m domestic total of Amazing Spider-Man 2 and within striking distance of the $262m cume of The Amazing Spider-Man back in 2012.

And now that Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets is not going to be much of a competitor in North America, Peter Parker’s second reboot has the marketed cornered on live-action family entertainment for the next three months.

 

As I noted previously, if Spider-Man: Homecoming proved itself to be crowd-pleasing and kid-friendly, then it would have a monopoly on families and kids seeking live-action big-screen thrills. My nitpicks about the film notwithstanding, it is relatively entertaining and entirely kid-friendly, as it’s arguably the least violent and least intense MCU movie thus far. And as such, it’s going to be the only game in town for quite a while as summer ends on a grim note and the summer leads into an adult-friendly fall season.

 

We aren't getting another “big” live-action, kid-friendly spectacular until Marvel and Walt Disney’s Thor: Ragnarok in early November. That means, unless you want to see Wonder Woman again (because The Mummy and Transformers: The Last Knight are quickly losing theaters), your only real live-action bet for a kid-friendly epic is either Valerian or Spider-Man.

And that will be the Jon Watts-directed movie’s biggest advantage.

 

[TeddieMercede]

 

55 minutes ago, Drummy said:

1.  It's not really new material despite Marvel's efforts.  It doesn't have the anticipation of the Raimi films, and lots of kids have already seen Spider-Man in the theater in the recent past.  The novelty factor, even with Tom Holland, isn't in play as much as Marvel hoped.

 

Think this hits the nail on the head - if you aren't a Marvel/Spidey fan boy did you really need to see this movie ? We're talking 6 Spider-Man movies in 15 years. even he isn't immune to seen it/done that. Sure the fanboys will show up opening weekend but there was nothing in this movie that made it must see for the general public who've seen way too much Spidey in the past 15 years. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by TeddieMercede

[Bosco685]

Wrong chart!

Edited July 27, 2017 by Bosco685