SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING starring Tom Holland (7/28/17) 3 3

[fantastic_four]

4 minutes ago, drotto said:

6 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

You're in luck because Mary Jane wasn't in the movie.  Zendaya was another character.

Except at the end she has a line during the academic club meating where they name her the new leader of the team, and I am paraphrasing somewhat.  My name is Michelle but my friend's call me MJ. I clearly heard the line, and my wife did also. So even if she is a new character the writers seem to be replacing the traditional MJ with this new character.  You can't use those initials in the Marvel Universe without poeple having that thought.

For the third or fourth time in the thread--Kevin Feige has already explicitly said that she isn't meant to be Mary Jane and that when and if Mary Jane ever appears she won't be Zendaya.  And Zendaya keeps having to say it over and over during interviews because of the confusion that MJ nickname created.

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/spider-man/266148/spider-man-homecoming-ending-kevin-feige-talks-some-surprises

[F For Fake]

Finally got around to seeing "Spiderman" this weekend with the Missus. Our collective critical response was "meh". It was fine, nothing great. It really didn't feel like a Spider-Man movie to me. It was more like Iron Man Jr, considering how many of his abilities seemed to be tied to his suit.  I also believe I'm finally at the saturation point with RDJ and his Tony Stark shtick. What was once refreshing and fun is now just kind of annoying. Could have done with MUCH less Tony/IM in this flick, for sure. Our theater was mostly full, but most of the jokes fell flat. At the end of the day, it wasn't a trainwreck or anything, but I don't think Millenial Spidey is for me. But I'm not complaining. I got to see two terrific Spider-Man flicks in my life time (Raimi's first two) and that's good enough. I'm not greedy.

On the pros side, I did like Michael Keaton a lot, and I really dug the revamp of his costume design. But he didn't have a lot to do, and the pacing of the Spidey/Vulture rivalry was very odd.

Anyway, that's my two cents, and likely not even worth that much.

(And on Sunday I took myself to see "Atomic Blonde", which I loved. "Baby Driver" is still the best flick of the summer season, though.)

[Bosco685]

Final weekend numbers.

Remaining Release Schedule:

- Japan: 7 August 2017 (Tokyo premiere)

- Japan: 11 August 2017

- China: August 2017 (??)

[Artboy99]

9 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

For the third or fourth time in the thread--Kevin Feige has already explicitly said that she isn't meant to be Mary Jane and that when and if Mary Jane ever appears she won't be Zendaya.  And Zendaya keeps having to say it over and over during interviews because of the confusion that MJ nickname created.

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/spider-man/266148/spider-man-homecoming-ending-kevin-feige-talks-some-surprises

= it was a terrible idea.

[jsilverjanet]

If she's not Mary Jane then Why have her say "MJ" and create the confusion 

it seems Marvel/Sony screwed up and now are trying to fixing the issue post movie debut

[Get Marwood & I]

2 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

If she's not Mary Jane then Why have her say "MJ" and create the confusion 

it seems Marvel/Sony screwed up and now are trying to fixing the issue post movie debut

That was my thought too. If the reference to MJ was meant to be a joke,  then what was the intended punch line? 'Only joking guys, we know she's awful and couldn't possibly be MJ'. Seems out of place with the overall championing of the underdog theme. 

[bababooey]

3 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

If she's not Mary Jane then Why have her say "MJ" and create the confusion 

it seems Marvel/Sony screwed up and now are trying to fixing the issue post movie debut

By the time you get to the third reboot you're not just targeting comic fans with the teasers & easter eggs you're also targeting movie fans of earlier cinematic versions of the character....so using a bit of misdirection at times seems necessary when 100% of the audience in the theater these days knows there's an MJ, a JJJ, a Gwen, a Daily Bugle and an Osborne or two around the corner.

In the next chapter Marvel will continue down this slippery slope going so far as to have Zendaya dye her hair & Marvel will of course deny that she is playing the Mary Jane character and explain the abrupt makeover as a "red hairing". 

[F For Fake]

16 hours ago, Grails said:

I could have written every line above.  Agree with it all right down to Atomic Blonde and Baby Driver.

Let's be friends! 

[Gatsby77]

7 hours ago, bababooey said:

In the next chapter Marvel will continue down this slippery slope going so far as to have Zendaya dye her hair & Marvel will of course deny that she is playing the Mary Jane character and explain the abrupt makeover as a "red hairing". 

Slow clap for the pun.

Well done, sir. Well done.

[Straw-Man]

12 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

If she's not Mary Jane then Why have her say "MJ" and create the confusion 

it seems Marvel/Sony screwed up and now are trying to fixing the issue post movie debut

exactly.  you don't play it off at the end as a "reveal" moment if that wasn't your angle.

[Get Marwood & I]

12 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

= it was a terrible idea.

Indeed.

Take this extract from the Den of Geek link posted earlier regarding Aunt May discovering Peter in his Spidey suit at the end:

Says Watts, “That was a thing where I don’t remember exactly at what point it came up when we were just brainstorming ideas, but as soon as that came out, it was like, ‘We gotta’ do that. Like we gotta’ do that!’ It’s like when you have an idea that makes everyone excited and nervous, and feels like, ‘Are we seriously going to do that?’ Then you know you have to do it… And it definitely has opened up a huge can of worms, and I have no idea how we’re going to address it.”

Is this kind of off the cuff plotting why these films can often feel unsatisfying? Is this really how to plot and -script a good film? "Hey, why don't we have monkeys explode out of Aunt Mays vanity case!" "Yeah! That rocks baby - it's in!"

Whizz-bang-wallop film making. They've taken our souls......

[aardvark88]

fyi, Tom Holland has a small role as the son of the principal explorer of Amazonia in 'The City of Z' which one can download or view on dvd now.

[Artboy99]

1 hour ago, Marwood & I said:

Indeed.

Take this extract from the Den of Geek link posted earlier regarding Aunt May discovering Peter in his Spidey suit at the end:

Says Watts, “That was a thing where I don’t remember exactly at what point it came up when we were just brainstorming ideas, but as soon as that came out, it was like, ‘We gotta’ do that. Like we gotta’ do that!’ It’s like when you have an idea that makes everyone excited and nervous, and feels like, ‘Are we seriously going to do that?’ Then you know you have to do it… And it definitely has opened up a huge can of worms, and I have no idea how we’re going to address it.”

Is this kind of off the cuff plotting why these films can often feel unsatisfying? Is this really how to plot and --script a good film? "Hey, why don't we have monkeys explode out of Aunt Mays vanity case!" "Yeah! That rocks baby - it's in!"

Whizz-bang-wallop film making. They've taken our souls......

it is certainly how a lot of film making seems.

I dare to say it: "MJ" in the Homecoming film was meant to be Mary Jane Watson.

BUT: somehow after the film was done something happened that now required the change or back peddling so that now Zendaya isn't the Mary Jane Watson of the Spider-man comics in future films. Who knows what it was, but it is why we now have articles/ interviews that say "No no, she isn't Mary Jane Watson."

Yeah whatever. I know better.

[fantastic_four]

27 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

I dare to say it: "MJ" in the Homecoming film was meant to be Mary Jane Watson.

BUT: somehow after the film was done something happened that now required the change or back peddling so that now Zendaya isn't the Mary Jane Watson of the Spider-man comics in future films. Who knows what it was, but it is why we now have articles/ interviews that say "No no, she isn't Mary Jane Watson."

That does make more sense than Feige's explanations.

[Get Marwood & I]

45 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

it is certainly how a lot of film making seems.

I dare to say it: "MJ" in the Homecoming film was meant to be Mary Jane Watson.

BUT: somehow after the film was done something happened that now required the change or back peddling so that now Zendaya isn't the Mary Jane Watson of the Spider-man comics in future films. Who knows what it was, but it is why we now have articles/ interviews that say "No no, she isn't Mary Jane Watson."

Yeah whatever. I know better.

Seconded!

[fantastic_four]

20 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

49 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

I dare to say it: "MJ" in the Homecoming film was meant to be Mary Jane Watson.

BUT: somehow after the film was done something happened that now required the change or back peddling so that now Zendaya isn't the Mary Jane Watson of the Spider-man comics in future films. Who knows what it was, but it is why we now have articles/ interviews that say "No no, she isn't Mary Jane Watson."

That does make more sense than Feige's explanations.

The only inconsistency with the hypothesis is that they were careful not to call her Mary Jane throughout the production process.  They always called her Michelle, but every other character used unaltered names created by Ditko or Lee.  So why change Mary Jane's name?  I can't come up with any explanation for that which isn't pure speculation.

[Artboy99]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

The only inconsistency with the hypothesis is that they were careful not to call her Mary Jane throughout the production process.  They always called her Michelle, but every other character used unaltered names created by Ditko or Lee.  So why change Mary Jane's name?  I can't come up with any explanation for that which isn't pure speculation.

Change for the sake of change.

Ned Leeds has the same name but he is an over weight Asian guy ( can't wait to see him dressed as the Hobgoblin - not! )

Flash Thompson has the same name but instead of being an athletic bully he is a wealthy bully.

Aunt May is the same name but is now a hot milf instead of a frail old lady.

I surmise it is simply change for the sake of change and done so they could do the very prominent reveal at the ending of the film where she says "call me M.J."

Edited August 1, 2017 by Artboy99

[jsilverjanet]

When I was watching the movie Flash Thompson came across to me like Reggie Mantle

[F For Fake]

Just now, jsilverjanet said:

When I was watching the movie Flash Thompson came across to me like Reggie Mantle

Yes! Exactly so!

[fantastic_four]

15 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

Change for the sake of change.

Ned Leeds has the same name but he is an over weight Asian guy ( can't wait to see him dressed as the Hobgoblin - not! )

Flash Thompson has the same name but instead of being an athletic bully he is a wealthy bully.

Aunt May is the same name but is now a hot milf instead of a frail old lady.

I surmise it is simply change for the sake of change and done so they could do the very prominent reveal at the ending of the film where she says "call me M.J."

NONE of those were "change for the sake of change," they were change for the sake of what they thought would increase appeal for a younger audience.  So the whole MJ/Michelle thing isn't making sense either way.

Edited August 2, 2017 by fantastic_four