SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING starring Tom Holland (7/28/17) 3 3

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Yet Wonder Woman will be the more profitable film in the end.

As I have already demonstrated, no, it won't. 

-J.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[reddwarf666222]

2 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

As I have already demonstrated, no, it won't. 

-J.

You demonstrated your lack of understanding of how foriegn income works vs domestic. A lack of understanding of how much more Spidey's promotional budget not included in the regular budget would be than Wonder Woman's. Homecoming is a failure compared to Wonder Woman

[rjrjr]

Iron Boy, Iron Boy, 
Does whatever Iron Man can 
Talks to his A.I., 
With a flip of the wrist brings up a hologram 
Look Out! 
Here comes the Iron Boy. 

Is he strong? 
Listen bud, 
He's got a power suit. 
Can he swing from a thread 
Sure but why when he has new threads 
Hey, there 
There goes Iron Boy. 

In the chill of night 
At the scene of a crime 
Like a streak of light 
He arrives just in time. 

Iron Boy, Iron Boy
Friendly neighborhood Iron Boy 
Wealth and fame 
He's embraced 
A new power suit is his reward. 

To him, life is a great big bang up 
Wherever there's Iron Man 
You'll find the Iron Boy.

Edited September 16, 2017 by rjrjr

[Bosco685]

Looks like more than Forbes.com is talking about the China market news. Though it will be interesting if this turns out to be a short-term thing.

BOX OFFICE: SPIDER-MAN Plummets Massive 85%

Quote

Meanwhile Spider-Man Homecoming is set to have an unexpectedly massive drop on its second weekend in China. The Marvel Studios flick dropped a brutal 85% on its second Friday in the Middle Kingdom. It earned $3.1 million down from last Friday's $22.2 million. The current total of the Tom Holland-led film in China is $93.1 million and it is set to have a $12 million second weekend down from its large opening of $70 million. Box office insiders say that it will finish below $120 million there. While that might seem surprising to some, that comes after mixed reception and word of mouth from Chinese audiences. Of course that shouldn't take away from its great success worldwide.

 

[Prince Namor]

3 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

You demonstrated your lack of understanding of how foriegn income works vs domestic. A lack of understanding of how much more Spidey's promotional budget not included in the regular budget would be than Wonder Woman's. Homecoming is a failure compared to Wonder Woman

Exactly. 

A NEW Spider-man movie that loses out to a Guardians of the Galaxy SEQUEL, both domestically AND worldwide?

A NEW Spider-man movie that barely passes Wonder Woman Worldwide (thanks to her movie being banned in a few countries) and gets trounced by it domestically?

A NEW Spider-man movie that just inches past Suicide Squad both domestically and worldwide?

Looks like Marvel can't do the world's biggest Superhero any justice either.

It's NOT a flop or a failure, but it isn't what it should be. It's the biggest superhero in the world and it's movies should be too.

And at $140 Million, the promotion cost almost as much as the production:

https://heroichollywood.com/spider-man-140-million-marketing/

Compared to what was probably a $70-75 million budget for Wonder Woman, well... yes, it was a LOT more profitable for WB than Homecoming was for Marvel/Sony.

[Prince Namor]

11 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Looks like more than Forbes.com is talking about the China market news. Though it will be interesting if this turns out to be a short-term thing.

BOX OFFICE: SPIDER-MAN Plummets Massive 85%

 

Does it have any other decent markets to open up in? Can it possibly make up the $60 MILLION gap between it and GOTG 2?

It's a rhetorical question, but... I am curious if it has any other markets left to open in.

[Bosco685]

China was it. End of the line.

[ComicConnoisseur]

4 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

A NEW Spider-man movie that loses out to a Guardians of the Galaxy SEQUEL, both domestically AND worldwide?

No disrespect to Spider-Man and his legacy,but Guardians of the Galaxy are actually pretty cool and deserve more respect. Most people would say Guardians of the Galaxy are more beloved than the Avengers now.

Spoiler

Who didn't shed a tear when Yondu died?

I know I am looking forward to GotG 3 more than just about any other future Marvel movies because the GotG characters are cool and fun. 

So if Spider-Man doesn't beat GotG at the box office I wouldn't look at it as a failure. Most movies don't beat GotG at the box office, and I would expect GotG 3 to beat the next Spider-Man.

GotG hasn't even hit its peak yet and should be considered the bench mark, and not thought of as an Ant-Man kind of franchise in the future.

I would say GotG franchise in the long run has a better future than the Avengers because eventually the Avengers actors will become too expensive and they will have to retire them.

 

[Prince Namor]

12 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

No disrespect to Spider-Man and his legacy,but Guardians of the Galaxy are actually pretty cool and deserve more respect. Most people would say Guardians of the Galaxy are more beloved than the Avengers now.

I give them plenty of respect. They beat the BIGGEST Superhero in the WORLD at the box office. The only reason Spidey's even in the game against their numbers is because he IS the biggest superhero in the world.

12 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I know I am looking forward to GotG 3 more than just about any other future Marvel movies because the GotG characters are cool and fun. 

I'm not. I thought GOTG2 was ok. Not sure where else you can go with this group other than helping to make the two Avengers Infinity War movies too much of an over serious snoozefest. And from the SDCC leaked trailer, it looks like they'll help it a lot. The team up looks cool as heck.

Of course, in their solo movies, if we could get Nova and the Nova Corps involved or maybe more Adam Warlock, or eventually introduce the Fantastic Four through those movies, it could be used as a great vehicle for years to come....

12 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

So if Spider-Man doesn't beat GotG at the box office I wouldn't look at it as a failure.

I'm NOT saying its a failure. I'm saying they expected the BIGGEST Superhero in the world to make one of the BIGGEST movies in the world, and it didn't. 

12 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Most movies don't beat GotG at the box office, and I would expect GotG 3 to beat the next Spider-Man.

GotG hasn't even hit its peak yet and should be considered the bench mark, and not thought of as an Ant-Man kind of franchise in the future.

The first movie convinced anyone with a brain that it was far more powerful than an Ant-Man movie, however, sequels do NOT normally out pace the original movies in 99% of instances in the history of the movies. So GOTG2 EXCEEDED expectations, vs Homecoming which... didn't.

12 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I would say GotG franchise in the long run has a better future than the Avengers because eventually the Avengers actors will become too expensive and they will have to retire them.

OR... they'll just get NEW Avengers.

[Jaydogrules]

5 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

You demonstrated your lack of understanding of how foriegn income works vs domestic. A lack of understanding of how much more Spidey's promotional budget not included in the regular budget would be than Wonder Woman's. Homecoming is a failure compared to Wonder Woman

Other than DC fanboy lip service, you've provided no data nor analysis to back up any of your false, conclusory statements.   The numbers that I crunched were pro forma from the domestic/foreign percentages that we all generally understand to be accurate, and as cited again by Bosco a page or so back.   And yet you speak with the authority of someone who has done a forensic accounting of both movies.  You do not know what either Homecoming or WW's "promotional budgets" were.   You do not know if the stated budgets already include those (they probably do).  You don't know the ancillary revenues of either film. You don't know if Sony negotiated a higher percentage of take home for Homecoming because it had the leverage of knowing they were bringing an established property to their mainland, versus the un-tested product of WW there.   

But most importantly, Homecoming has still not yet completed its run. As I have illustrated already, even at last week's grosses Homecoming was only about $20MM shy of Wonder Woman's overall studio take home profits, five weeks sooner. According to that Forbes article cited by Bosco above, Homecoming will be at around  $855MM by the end of this weekend, which will then leave it only about $8MM shy of GOTG 2, and will still have at least a week or two of worldwide release left in the tank.  Your statement that Homecoming is a "failure" compared to Wonder Woman is so patently absurd, it warrants no response.  And as eager as you are to award Wonder Woman (a movie that didn't even earn as much as the pre-inflation adjusted Spider-man 1 from 15 years ago) its participation trophy, you would probably be wise to cool your heels at least until Homecoming is done raking in the cash.  

-J.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Bosco685]

54 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Other than DC fanboy lip service, you've provided no data nor analysis to back up any of your false, conclusory statements.   The numbers that I crunched were pro forma from the domestic/foreign percentages that we all generally understand to be accurate, and as cited again by Bosco a page or so back.   And yet you speak with the authority of someone who has done a forensic accounting of both movies.  You do not know what either Homecoming or WW's "promotional budgets" were.   You do not know if the stated budgets already include those (they probably do).  You don't know the ancillary revenues of either film. You don't know if Sony negotiated a higher percentage of take home for Homecoming because it had the leverage of knowing they were bringing an established property to their mainland, versus the un-tested product of WW there.   

But most importantly, Homecoming has still not yet completed its run. As I have illustrated already, even at last week's grosses Homecoming was only about $20MM shy of Wonder Woman's overall studio take home profits, five weeks sooner. According to that Forbes article cited by Bosco above, Homecoming will be at around  $855MM by the end of this weekend, which will then leave it only about $8MM shy of GOTG 2, and will still have at least a week or two of worldwide release left in the tank.  Your statement that Homecoming is a "failure" compared to Wonder Woman is so patently absurd, it warrants no response.  And as eager as you are to award Wonder Woman (a movie that didn't even earn as much as the pre-inflation adjusted Spider-man 1 from 15 years ago) its participation trophy, you would probably be wise to cool your heels at least until Homecoming is done raking in the cash.  

-J.

I've got nothing against your opinions - whether it is being fanatical MCU fan or Spider-Man fan. It doesn't matter. You're entitled to like what you like.

On 9/10/2017 at 8:20 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Um...no.  Homecoming only cost about $25M more than WW.  That difference will be more than made up for by the end of the week, and then some, by a lot.  Plus, Spider-Man is still playing domestically in the top 10 and just opened in China. The question at this point no longer is "will Homecoming be a greater financial success than WW?".  That question was answered in a resounding fashion this week when it passed WW's worldwide total five  weeks ahead of it.   It's "Will Homecoming manage to stretch its 8 mighty legs at or close to 900MM?".

-J.

 

But you have stated this point about Spider-Man achieving a worldwide number faster than Wonder Woman - assuming both films were on equal footing. They are not!

- Wonder Woman banned across several countries which probably took $4-5M off the table.

- Russia market under-performance due to it being a female-led movie probably cost the movie another $15-$18M. Even comparing to Suicide Squad (a weak -script), Wonder Woman was a much stronger story with a semi-weak third act yet it sits at $8.5 M. Sexism clearly plays out here versus a weak -script as Harley was just another character in SS loaded with male characters.

  + Ant-Man $11.5M

  + BvS (not an origin film) $12.7M

  + Deadpool $26M

  + Doctor Strange $22.3M

  + Man of Steel $10.4M

  + Suicide Squad $25.6M

- Even with the India market, WB threw in the towel in going large because it recognized a female-led film was not worth the fight. So they went with drastically less screens, and keeping it English-based. So take off another $2-5 M.

  + Ant-Man $1.7M

  + BvS $10.8M

  + Deadpool $2.6M

  + Doctor Strange $5.2M

Ignoring all that is just ignoring real-world facts. A female-led movie with an Israel actress is something WB had to just deal with.

 

[comic_memories]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda......  in the end all that matters is the final numbers.  Every movie has different hurdles... that's life. Spiderman had to deal with 2 maybe 3 hurricanes how much was lost for that?? Nobody is going to remember all these excuses.   If  Wonder Woman and  GOTG2 were successful then so is Spiderman. Its right up there with them and still going. 

[Bosco685]

A comparison between the two films per region shows a telling difference. Although anyone keeping blinders on, they can hide behind 'Homecoming was a better story' when we have seen the past few years new concept films (Deadpool, Suicide Squad, Logan) stand out. Wonder Woman should have fit into that pattern - but didn't in certain regions.

- Bahrain:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $665.5K

  + Wonder Woman $0 (BANNED)

- Egypt:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $533K

  + Wonder Woman $0 (BANNED)

- India:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $11.4M

  + Wonder Woman $2.6M

- Kuwait:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $1.7M

  + Wonder Woman $0 (BANNED)

- Qatar:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $1.1M

  + Wonder Woman $0 (BANNED)

- Pakistan:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $666K

  + Wonder Woman $0 (BANNED)

- Russia:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $16.4M

  + Wonder Woman $8.5M

Of the few countries I called out that banned Wonder Woman, Spider-Man: Homecoming took in $4.67M so far. And that isn't even all the countries that banned the film.

 

Edited September 16, 2017 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, comic_memories said:

Coulda, woulda, shoulda......  in the end all that matters is the final numbers.  Every movie has different hurdles... that's life. Spiderman had to deal with 2 maybe 3 hurricanes how much was lost for that?? Nobody is going to remember all these excuses.   If  Wonder Woman and  GOTG2 were successful then so is Spiderman. Its right up there with them and still going. 

You missed the point where a few of us were already saying all these movies this year earned their place. Only this one person has made it a mission to bash Wonder Woman over Spider-Man: Homecoming.

But welcome to the party.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Bosco685

[comic_memories]

1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

You missed the point where a few of us were already saying all these movies this year earned their placed. Only this one person has made it a mission to bash Wonder Woman over Spider-Man: Homecoming.

But welcome to the party.

Thanks ! 

[Bosco685]

10 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

A comparison between the two films per region shows a telling difference. Although anyone keeping blinders on, they can hide behind 'Homecoming was a better story' when we have seen the past few years new concept films (Deadpool, Suicide Squad, Logan) stand out. Wonder Woman should have fit into that pattern - but didn't in certain regions.

- Bahrain:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $665.5K

  + Wonder Woman $0 (BANNED)

- Egypt:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $533K

  + Wonder Woman $0 (BANNED)

- India:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $11.4M

  + Wonder Woman $2.6M

- Kuwait:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $1.7M

  + Wonder Woman $0 (BANNED)

- Qatar:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $1.1M

  + Wonder Woman $0 (BANNED)

- Pakistan:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $666K

  + Wonder Woman $0 (BANNED)

- Russia:

  + Spider-Man: Homecoming $16.4M

  + Wonder Woman $8.5M

Of the few countries I called out that banned Wonder Woman, Spider-Man: Homecoming took in $4.67M so far. And that isn't even all the countries that banned the film.

 

Now if Wonder Woman had played across these same banned countries and achieved the same results (not even accounting for the India and Russia gaps), Domestic vs. International would look like this.

- Domestic: $410.8M

- International: $411.6M

- Worldwide: $822.37M

Again, the issue with Israel vs. Arabic Nations caused quite the gap for this movie. Add to this India and Russia, and this would have been an even larger success. But cultural gaps over gender differences don't get fixed via films.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Bosco685

[Jaydogrules]

15 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I've got nothing against your opinions - whether it is being fanatical MCU fan or Spider-Man fan. It doesn't matter. You're entitled to like what you like.

 

But you have stated this point about Spider-Man achieving a worldwide number faster than Wonder Woman - assuming both films were on equal footing. They are not!

- Wonder Woman banned across several countries which probably took $4-5M off the table.

- Russia market under-performance due to it being a female-led movie probably cost the movie another $15-$18M. Even comparing to Suicide Squad (a weak --script), Wonder Woman was a much stronger story with a semi-weak third act yet it sits at $8.5 M. Sexism clearly plays out here versus a weak --script as Harley was just another character in SS loaded with male characters.

  + Ant-Man $11.5M

  + BvS (not an origin film) $12.7M

  + Deadpool $26M

  + Doctor Strange $22.3M

  + Man of Steel $10.4M

  + Suicide Squad $25.6M

- Even with the India market, WB threw in the towel in going large because it recognized a female-led film was not worth the fight. So they went with drastically less screens, and keeping it English-based. So take off another $2-5 M.

  + Ant-Man $1.7M

  + BvS $10.8M

  + Deadpool $2.6M

  + Doctor Strange $5.2M

Ignoring all that is just ignoring real-world facts. A female-led movie with an Israel actress is something WB had to just deal with.

 

With all due respect Bosco, complaining about and excusing WW for not doing as well in some countries (or getting a limited or no release) because of the female and Israeli thing is a little like complaining about how Tyler Perry movies don't do well overseas because it has a lot of black people in it. 

Studios make the movies they want to make and the deal with the cards that they have chosen to play internationally.  Some movies and concepts just aren't as well liked or well received in some territories as others, be it for cultural reasons, or the movie just not being as well liked there as it was domestically.  Studios aren't ignorant, they know what they're dealing with going in, and if they don't, then they only have themselves to blame and should hire better market research people.   

But to speculate as to how much more Wonder Woman might have made in a few small countries if it were, basically, an entirely different movie, to me is pointless.  The fact that it made what it made domestically was precisely because of the movie that it is, and I'm sure the studio doesn't mind the very minor trade off in the end.  

And to bring this back around to Homecoming  (since this is, after all the Homecoming thread and not the Wonder Woman thread), when I say that Homecoming made its money 5 weeks faster than WW, that is 100% factually accurate- WW, $817.6MM in 15 weeks, Homecoming $824.1MM in 10 weeks (source, box office mojo). Furthermore, even if we added in your hypothetical totals to WW (which would, conveniently, put it on par with Homecoming's current totals), Homecoming still got there five weeks sooner, and will blow even further past WW by the end of this weekend, four weeks sooner.  This has nothing to do with me liking all Marvel (I don't) or being a Spider-Man fan (I am), these are just facts.   

-J.

 

[Jaydogrules]

16 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

You missed the point where a few of us were already saying all these movies this year earned their place. Only this one person has made it a mission to bash Wonder Woman over Spider-Man: Homecoming.

But welcome to the party.

No.  I've been responding to the irrational posts of a few other persistent posters in here who have, bafflingly either called Homecoming everything from a "disappointment" to a "failure".  

Take off your blinders.

-J.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Jaydogrules]

21 minutes ago, comic_memories said:

Coulda, woulda, shoulda......  in the end all that matters is the final numbers.  Every movie has different hurdles... that's life. Spiderman had to deal with 2 maybe 3 hurricanes how much was lost for that?? Nobody is going to remember all these excuses.   If  Wonder Woman and  GOTG2 were successful then so is Spiderman. Its right up there with them and still going. 

+1

Couldn't have said it better myself.  

-J.

[comic_memories]

Just now, Jaydogrules said:

+1

Couldn't have said it better myself.  

-J.

Actually you did, I just keep it simple,