SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING starring Tom Holland (7/28/17) 3 3

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

I'm a pretty big nerd, but the fight over box office totals over the past few pages has exceeded even my capacity for nerdiness.  

Don't worry. You've had your nerd debates quite extensively. So don't feel left out.

To the nerds!

[reddwarf666222]

2 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Seriously, unless you have access to the studios' books, just stop. 

Homecoming made more money than Wonder Woman did, deal with it.  

-J.

Deal with it you lost. Since you are in denial and now bring up the losing argument. Wonder Woman squashed your hero at the box office.  It was the spider that performed better at the box office as well

Edited October 11, 2017 by reddwarf666222

[Bosco685]

3 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Yeah we all know in the end WW beat SpiderMan in actual money that went to the studio. While we are speaking It may have had more actual money go to the studio as well when all is said and done.

 

Sure Spidey is a profitable film, but the money that went to the studio is not as much as WW and most likely not It either.

The smart move on Disney's part with all this is riding Sony's rumored $140M advertising spend to drive more merchandising sales FOR FREE.

Now the odd thing is I haven't really seen a big boost in Spider-Man merchandise at Walmart, Target or other stores. And with Spidey, it has to be an easy sale. Meanwhile, Guardians Vol. 2 had Groot dancing toys again, LEGO kits and all sorts of action figures. Wonder Woman was loaded with merchandising product even outside the toy section with shirts, pillows, bedding covers. So it would be crazy if Disney held this back to just a few action figures and LEGO kits for Spidey.

[revat]

16 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

The smart move on Disney's part with all this is riding Sony's rumored $140M advertising spend to drive more merchandising sales FOR FREE.

Now the odd thing is I haven't really seen a big boost in Spider-Man merchandise at Walmart, Target or other stores. And with Spidey, it has to be an easy sale. Meanwhile, Guardians Vol. 2 had Groot dancing toys again, LEGO kits and all sorts of action figures. Wonder Woman was loaded with merchandising product even outside the toy section with shirts, pillows, bedding covers. So it would be crazy if Disney held this back to just a few action figures and LEGO kits for Spidey.

There's only been two GOTG movies and baby groot is different than big groot, there's been 6 spidey movies in the past 20 years plus a million marvel comics and a few tv shows for the past 60 years, including associated merchandising.  There may be a fear that the market has been relatively saturated with spidey goods to some extent, at least to the point where they go less 'all in' than some other cases.

[Jaydogrules]

59 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

The smart move on Disney's part with all this is riding Sony's rumored $140M advertising spend to drive more merchandising sales FOR FREE.

Now the odd thing is I haven't really seen a big boost in Spider-Man merchandise at Walmart, Target or other stores. And with Spidey, it has to be an easy sale. Meanwhile, Guardians Vol. 2 had Groot dancing toys again, LEGO kits and all sorts of action figures. Wonder Woman was loaded with merchandising product even outside the toy section with shirts, pillows, bedding covers. So it would be crazy if Disney held this back to just a few action figures and LEGO kits for Spidey.

Are you now deliberately misrepresenting the very articles that you linked?

https://www.google.com/amp/deadline.com/2017/07/spider-man-homecoming-global-promotion-biggest-ever-franchise-media-ad-spend-1202125535/amp/

Sony DID NOT "spend" $140 million dollars on "advertising".  "Media value" does not equate to dollars spent.  Not only is the article clear about that, the media value of the partnerships is actually cast in a positive light and a financial benefit to SONY, not the "OMG I can't believe they 'spent' $140 million advertising this thing, what were they thinking?" Unless of course, like I said before as an example, you believe Sony paid Audi for all of that product placement. 

This is why you and your friend reddwarf should not try wading into that end of the pool (have you ever tried to before with any other movie?) because at this juncture you are either trolling the point, or you just don't know what you're talking about.  

At the end of the day, the tale of the tape will be that Homecoming ruled the hero summer 2017 box office around the world, and this:

Wonder Woman Profit:  $821MM (grosses)-$150MM(budget)= $671MM 

Homecoming Profit:  $879MM (grosses)- $175MM(budget)= $704MM 

Amount of more profit Homecoming made than Wonder Woman: $33MM 

Leave the fuzzy math to the creators when they start fighting over royalties and ancilliaries.   As I said before, unless you have direct access to the studios' books the only numbers we KNOW are the ones above. Sure I know you're disappointed Wonder Woman fell to the Spider. Couldn't even make what his first movie made 15 years ago, and without China then.  But hey that's not a bad showing for a relentlessly hyped SJW darling, and who knows, maybe she will even help JLA from being the dumpster fire it looks like in its previews.   

-J.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Get Marwood & I]

[PunisherPunisherPunisher]

[Bosco685]

40 minutes ago, revat said:

There's only been two GOTG movies and baby groot is different than big groot, there's been 6 spidey movies in the past 20 years plus a million marvel comics and a few tv shows for the past 60 years, including associated merchandising.  There may be a fear that the market has been relatively saturated with spidey goods to some extent, at least to the point where they go less 'all in' than some other cases.

Actually, a very good point. But then worst-case, Disney at least protects its merchandising base without even having to partake in the $140M advertising spend.

I think Spider-Man is still the #1 superhero merchandising brand.

[Jaydogrules]

20 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Actually, a very good point. But then worst-case, Disney at least protects its merchandising base without even having to partake in the $140M advertising spend.

I think Spider-Man is still the #1 superhero merchandising brand.

I see you're still deliberately trolling and misrepresenting articles that you yourself  have cited.  

You just walked right into this...

According to ispot.tv, the actual money spent on TV advertising (the bulk of actual marketing  expenditures for most films) for Homecoming was.... wait for it.... about  $23MM.

https://www.google.com/amp/variety.com/2017/digital/news/spider-man-homecoming-tops-studios-tv-ad-spending-1202486841/amp/

Just for the heck of it I looked up what Wonder Woman's was too.  It was  $24.8MM.

http://adage.com/article/media/s-a-critic/309360/

Shall I keep going?

-J.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Bosco685]

34 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

This is why you and your friend reddwarf should not try wading into that end of the pool (have you ever tried to before with any other movie?) because at this juncture you are either trolling the point, or you just don't know what you're talking about.  

At the end of the day, the tale of the tape will be that Homecoming ruled the hero summer 2017 box office around the world, and this:

Wonder Woman Profit:  $821MM (grosses)-$150MM(budget)= $671MM 

Homecoming Profit:  $879MM (grosses)- $175MM(budget)= $704MM 

Amount of more profit Homecoming made than Wonder Woman: $33MM 

Leave the fuzzy math to the creators when they start fighting over royalties and ancilliaries.   As I said before, unless you have direct access to the studios' books the only numbers we KNOW are the ones above. Sure I know you're disappointed Wonder Woman fell to the Spider. Couldn't even make what his first movie made 15 years ago, and without China then.  But hey that's not a bad showing for a relentlessly hyped SJW darling, and who knows, maybe she will even help JLA from being the dumpster fire it looks like in its previews.   

-J.

I realize your far superior analysis outdoes all of us. Only you have this figured out from your 'time in movies'.

Meanwhile, to call what you calculated Profits is still missing many variables. Right now all we have available is SALES - COSTS = REVENUE - not profits. So maybe you should back off of the fuzzy math.

Plus, nice job slapping on another $1M onto Wonder Woman's confirmed production budget of $149M - validated by Box Office Mojo. Otherwise, they would leave the Production Budget field as 'N/A' like they have done for other movies.

[Jaydogrules]

2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I realize your far superior analysis outdoes all of us. Only you have this figured out from your 'time in movies'.

Meanwhile, to call what you calculated Profits is still missing many variables. Right now all we have available is SALES - COSTS = REVENUE - not profits. So maybe you should back off of the fuzzy math.

Plus, nice job slapping on another $1M onto Wonder Woman's confirmed production budget of $149M - validated by Box Office Mojo. Otherwise, they would leave the Production Budget field as 'N/A' like they have done for other movies.

YES!  We are saying the same thing now.  There are production expense variables as well as ancillary variables on the back end that can boost a film's bottom line and WE DON'T KNOW ANY OF THAT.  As such, and reiterating what I said several pages back, and again here, let's leave that to the bean counters at the studios when they're defending royalties lawsuits.

-J.

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said:

YES!  We are saying the same thing now.  There are production expense variables as well as ancillary variables on the back end that can boost a film's bottom line and WE DON'T KNOW ANY OF THAT.  As such, and reiterating what I said several pages back, and again here, let's leave that to the bean counters at the studios when they're defending royalties lawsuits.

-J.

Hey, you're the one with the itch to scratch in being set on wanting Spider-Man to stomp Wonder Woman. Like there are some profit to be gained here for anyone. But if you are going to post like that, you are going to have people calling it out.

Spider-Man made more SALES than Guardians Vol. 2, Wonder Woman and Logan. But based on the ratio of COSTS-to-SALES, Logan outdid them all and Wonder Woman was right behind it. That's a fact! No fuzzy logic needed. So let it go, and enjoy the movies.

[Jaydogrules]

32 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Hey, you're the one with the itch to scratch in being set on wanting Spider-Man to stomp Wonder Woman. Like there are some profit to be gained here for anyone. But if you are going to post like that, you are going to have people calling it out.

Spider-Man made more SALES than Guardians Vol. 2, Wonder Woman and Logan. But based on the ratio of COSTS-to-SALES, Logan outdid them all and Wonder Woman was right behind it. That's a fact! No fuzzy logic needed. So let it go, and enjoy the movies.

Well I already addressed the true meaning and import of multipliers versus and compared to dollars and cents a page or two back, but yes, you're right, we should really just be enjoying the movies.   

-J.

[Bosco685]

Just now, Jaydogrules said:

Well I already addressed the true meaning and import of multipliers versus and compared to dollars and cents a page or two back, but yes, you're right, we should really just be enjoying the movies.   

-J.

No, you have confused 1) Who contacted who and why - Marvel or Sony, 2) PROFITS are SALES - PRODUCTION COSTS, 3) Wonder Woman's Production Budget, 4) Basing a successful movie just on sales, 5) Your time in movies makes you THE expert.

Just some of your hits.

[revat]

11 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

16 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Well I already addressed the true meaning and import of multipliers versus and compared to dollars and cents a page or two back, but yes, you're right, we should really just be enjoying the movies.   

-J.

No, you have confused 1) Who contacted who and why - Marvel or Sony, 2) PROFITS are SALES - PRODUCTION COSTS, 3) Wonder Woman's Production Budget, 4) Basing a successful movie just on sales, 5) Your time in movies makes you THE expert.

Just some of your hits.

in related news, I enjoyed spidey and ww EXACTLY THE SAME.  I thought they were both pretty good.  I like Logan just a little bit more than both of them, and both of them were just a little better than GOTG2.  I felt WW had a bit more potential actually but they botched the final villain.  So far a good Marvel/DC movie year (except Dark Tower, which I have yet to see, and I'm not sure it counts), and Thor looks like it will be at least reasonable. Justice League? I'll wait for the reviews.

[Jaydogrules]

25 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

No, you have confused 1) Who contacted who and why - Marvel or Sony, 2) PROFITS are SALES - PRODUCTION COSTS, 3) (insert movie) Production Budget, 4) Basing a successful movie just on sales, 5) Your time in movies makes you THE expert.

Just some of your hits.

So do us all a favour and update all the movie charts you provide to include all the bolded info from now on.  Of course it would all be speculative fiction for the most part.  But hey, it hasn't stopped you from attempting it with Homecoming (and the more you do it the more I just want to hand you a participation trophy for Wonder Woman to make you feel a little better ).

And your "gotcha games" on the irrelevant minutiea of some of what has been said by me ($149MM production budget for WW, versus  $150MM, please, big deal, and whomever contacted whom first about partnering up to make a new Spider-Man movie, so what?) pale in comparison to that whopper that you have insisted on repeating about Sony "spending" $140MM on marketing for Homecoming. 

And it still doesn't change the fact That, even with its higher budget, Homecoming still grossed more than  $30MM more than Wonder Woman, and grossed more than every other summer hero flick.   

Now that we've agreed that none of us are qualified or privy to speak to anything other than the front end numbers published publicly by the studios, it's probably best to just leave it alone, and look forward to seeing how Thor and JLA end up performing relative to each other (and try to enjoy them as well of course).  

-J.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Bosco685]

5 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

So do us all a favour and update all the movie charts you provide to include all the bolded info from now on.  Of course it would all be speculative fiction for the most part.  But hey, it hasn't stopped you from attempting with Homecoming (and the more you do it the more I just want to hand you a participation trophy for Wonder Woman to make you feel a little better ).

And your "gotcha games" on the irrelevant minutiea of some of what has been said by me ($149MM production budget for WW, versus  $150MM, please, big deal, and whomever contacted whom first about partnering up to make a new Spider-Man movie, so what?) pale in comparison to that whopper that you have insisted on repeating about Sony "spending" $140MM on marketing for Homecoming.

And it still doesn't change the fact That, even with its higher budget, Homecoming still grossed more than  $30MM more than Wonder Woman, and grossed more than every other summer hero flick.   

Now that we've agreed that none of us are qualified or privy to speak to anything other than the front end numbers published publicly by the studios, it's probably best to just leave it alone, and look forward to seeing how Thor and JLA end up performing relative to each other (and try to enjoy them as well of course).  

-J.

You mean your inability to keep all the facts straight, yet wanting to tell others they are spreading lies, rumors and purposeful confusion? Yet when you tell it (Sony came begging Marvel to teach them how to make money off product placement), it's all within the space of reality. At least within the span of when you tell it. Whopper? You ate the whole Burger King menu.

But back to reality. Based on investment, it is very clear the order these movies fall. And with Spider-Man as a tight #3 on the list it is a great spot to be in. And totally okay. Glad we cleared that up.

[Bosco685]

16 minutes ago, revat said:

in related news, I enjoyed spidey and ww EXACTLY THE SAME.  I thought they were both pretty good.  I like Logan just a little bit more than both of them, and both of them were just a little better than GOTG2.  I felt WW had a bit more potential actually but they botched the final villain.  So far a good Marvel/DC movie year (except Dark Tower, which I have yet to see, and I'm not sure it counts), and Thor looks like it will be at least reasonable. Justice League? I'll wait for the reviews.

It has been an incredible year for superhero films. Even seeing Fox making another superhero hit is refreshing. It would be nice if the entire year kept that pace (and should).

I think Dark Tower rides outside these other movies. Though I hate to hear it didn't go over so well.

[Jaydogrules]

6 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

You mean your inability to keep all the facts straight, yet wanting to tell others they are spreading lies, rumors and purposeful confusion? Yet when you tell it (Sony came begging Marvel to teach them how to make money off product placement), it's all within the space of reality. At least within the span of when you tell it. Whopper? You ate the whole Burger King menu.

But back to reality. Based on investment, it is very clear the order these movies fall. And with Spider-Man as a tight #3 on the list it is a great spot to be in. And totally okay. Glad we cleared that up.

Uh yeah, I never said that.

And Spider-Man still grossed more in absolute dollars and cents, including factoring in relative budgets, than any other hero movie for the year.  

But I'm on the phone ordering your participation trophy for those other things right now.

-J.

[Bosco685]

3 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Uh yeah, I never said that.

And Spider-Man still grossed more in absolute dollars and cents, including factoring in relative budgets, than any other hero movie for the year.  

But I'm on the phone ordering your participation trophy for those other things right now.

-J.

No worries. I'm ordering you a Wonder Woman t-shirt to celebrate her incredible cinema success. Wear it with pride!