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SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING starring Tom Holland (7/28/17)
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Started by Bosco685,

1,648 posts in this topic

Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Well, let's not forget this all started because someone was concerned there was a conspiracy to ignore Spider-Man making money. So let's mock that too.

BIgZBF6.png

lol Touche.  

Bosco, you seem to have a better handle on these things than most, you really do. 

-J.

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paperheart

paperheart

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As Scott Mendelson may be too tied up with a golden lasso, I will jump in to contribute in his stead. 

Although Forbes reported on Friday 9/15 that SMH "may not get past Walt Disney's Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 ($864m)", what was edited out was 'if the world ends on Monday 9/18.'  Apparently, both predictions were in error as the world keeps spinning and SMH passed GOTG after earning an additional $2.6MM from China through today.  As the late founder, Malcolm Forbes, was often heard to say: 'accurate predictions don't  matter unless we're talking about circulation.' Mendelson may also be too busy fetching Gail Gadot a carton of American Spirit to report that domestically SMH has passed BvS. 

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

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1 hour ago, paperheart said:

As Scott Mendelson may be too tied up with a golden lasso, I will jump in to contribute in his stead. 

Although Forbes reported on Friday 9/15 that SMH "may not get past Walt Disney's Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 ($864m)", what was edited out was 'if the world ends on Monday 9/18.'  Apparently, both predictions were in error as the world keeps spinning and SMH passed GOTG after earning an additional $2.6MM from China through today.  As the late founder, Malcolm Forbes, was often heard to say: 'accurate predictions don't  matter unless we're talking about circulation.' Mendelson may also be too busy fetching Gail Gadot a carton of American Spirit to report that domestically SMH has passed BvS. 

:roflmao: You do have a way with words.  

I was actually wondering about this though.  I don't see anyway Homecoming doesn't pass BvS' worldwide total ($873.MM) as well by the end of the week.  (worship)

-J.

Edited by Jaydogrules
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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

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1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Now at 5.0X production budget, only behind Spider-Man (2002) when it comes to a larger revenue multiplier.

4SrINh5.png

:applause:It did end up passing BvS this week after all.  Not bad for a "reboot" movie.  

Speaking of "reboots"- Scott Mendelson, the resident DC hack-boy at Forbes, continues to barely bother to conceal his naked disdain for Homecoming's blockbuster success with this latest back-handed hit piece on it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/09/22/spider-man-homecoming-box-office-triumph-may-be-a-disaster-for-hollywood/amp/

.....nevermind the fact that Superman has been on his third reboot since 2013, Fantastic Four is going on its third one, The Hulk is on his third one, even the Punisher is on his third one if you count the Netflix show, X men is going on its fourth one, and Batman is on his fifth.   And never mind the fact that Sony has to continue to release the films just to hold onto the rights (something DC does not have to worry about, and yet we still have all of those reboots from Warner, not a question or concern for Mr. Mendelson, of course). 

Or maybe Mendelson thinks we should still be seeing 42 year old Tobey MacGuire in these movies. lol Heck, even Andrew Garfield, at 34, was also already too old, unless we want to see Peter Parker- the Dan Slott years on the big screen. hm

Yes, for some reason it will all be because of Homecoming's unabashed, unqualified success that we might get another Terminator movie at some point.  :eyeroll:

-J.

Edited by Jaydogrules
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reddwarf666222

reddwarf666222

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2 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

:applause:It did end up passing BvS this week after all.  Not bad for a "reboot" movie.  

Speaking of "reboots"- Scott Mendelson, the resident DC hack-boy at Forbes, continues to barely bother to conceal his naked disdain for Homecoming's blockbuster success with this latest back-handed hit piece on it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/09/22/spider-man-homecoming-box-office-triumph-may-be-a-disaster-for-hollywood/amp/

.....nevermind the fact that Superman has been on his third reboot since 2013, Fantastic Four is going on its third one, The Hulk is on his third one, even the Punisher is on his third one if you count the Netflix show, X men is going on its fourth one, and Batman is on his fifth.   And never mind the fact that Sony has to continue to release the films just to hold onto the rights (something DC does not have to worry about, and yet we still have all of those reboots from Warner, not a question or concern for Mr. Mendelson, of course). 

Or maybe Mendelson thinks we should still be seeing 42 year old Tobey MacGuire in these movies. lol Heck, even Andrew Garfield, at 34, was also already too old, unless we want to see Peter Parker- the Dan Slott years on the big screen. hm

Yes, for some reason it will all be because of Homecoming's unabashed, unqualified success that we might get another Terminator movie at some point.  :eyeroll:

-J.

Superman is officially on his second reboot.

I think your missing the point Mendelson is trying to say he wants Hollywood to cut the number of sequels/reboots/remakes down and come up with original films. I would point to the overall picture of Hollywood right now outside of comic films that fit this category

 

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Bosco685

Bosco685

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8 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

I see what you did there.   xD

-J.

Include the one where the Sony CEO came crawling into the Marvel offices, begging to learn how to make money from movies. That's my favorite.

:popcorn:

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

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6 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Include the one where the Sony CEO came crawling into the Marvel offices, begging to learn how to make money from movies. That's my favorite.

:popcorn:

I thought we got that clarified a few pages back. lol

Tell you what- I'll come up with that, right after you come up with something from Sony that says they "spent" $140MM on marketing for Homecoming.  Oh wait, you can't, because that's not what actually happened.  That assertion is patently false, and borderline laughable.   And I think you know better.  :baiting:

Unless you also believe Universal "spent" nearly  $600MM on the Minions campaign based on reports like this  (similar to the one you cited about Homecoming):

https://qz.com/450909/593-million-in-marketing-drives-minions-to-a-huge-weekend-at-the-box-office/

Notice the same key phrase there? "Media value"?  And where it clarifies that that is NOT "dollars spent". 

I understand why someone could be a little fuzzy on the distinction though, since most of the articles subsequent to this original Deadline article.....:

https://www.google.com/amp/deadline.com/2017/07/spider-man-homecoming-global-promotion-biggest-ever-franchise-media-ad-spend-1202125535/amp/

....(which discusses the same concept of media value and Homecoming in a positive context, no less), somehow managed to morph the concept of "media value" into actual dollars spent: :eyeroll:

https://heroichollywood.com/spider-man-140-million-marketing/

When in reality, most, if not ALL of that "value" was received by Sony in the end via product placement and other tie-ins with its partners, which, more likely than not, ADDED to Homecoming's bottom line (though, again, that is not really ever anything I've seen discussed in these threads, because those numbers are almost entirely unverifiable by us, and I know it was only done here as a last ditch, and rather feeble attempt to convince people that Wonder Woman was somehow more "profitable", despite making $60MM less, an argument I haven't even seen that hack Mendelson try to make). 

So yes, now that we've  (hopefully) gotten that cleared up, I'm going to go back through this thread and laugh at some of the other absurd statements and predictions made by a few boardies about this film.  :whatev:  lol

-J. 

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Bosco685

Bosco685

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1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

Tell you what- I'll come up with that, right after you come up with something from Sony that says they "spent" $140MM on marketing for Homecoming.  Oh wait, you can't, because that's not what actually happened.  That assertion is patently false, and borderline laughable.   And I think you know better.  :baiting:

 

-J. 

I'm not sure what you find absurd or ridiculous about that figure. Sony saw this as a massive opportunity to drive a winner home while also expanding its advertising possibilities with corporate partners. Look at Iron Man 2 when that came out - which ended up with a massive marketing budget back in 2010 ($100M). This of course noted from an entity that specializes in advertising.

'IRON MAN 2' SPARKS $100M MARKETING BONANZA

Marvel spent so much not just because they needed to get the word out Tony Stark/Iron Man was back. At that point it was realized they had a surprise hit to follow up on. It was all the partnerships they could capitalize on as part of this next film rollout. Because - and I am in business so I guess that makes me an expert - 'it takes money to make more money'. :wink:

Your focus on Wonder Woman movie bashing is your choice. Meanwhile, at the Domestic market where it dealt with less concerns over a female lead and Gadot's Israeli background, the movie topped out exceeding $400M. A fantastic result for an origin superhero movie. Yet from your assessment the rest of world only matters, and nobody should whine that countries banned the movie or that it drastically under-performed in male-dominated countries. Because that would detract from your Spider-Man lovefest.

Whatever floats your boat or spins your globe. Meanwhile, reality is Homecoming's marketing was large to capitalize on what was sure to be a hit, and Wonder Woman outperformed any estimates thrown at it early on - including overcoming the DCEU concerns from previous films.

Spider-Man - the most recognized superhero across the globe - did great. But in an equally-balanced Domestic market, Wonder Woman is still $79.8M ahead. Welcome to the world of reality! You must have chosen the red pill over the blue one.

:foryou:

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

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38 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I'm not sure what you find absurd or ridiculous about that figure. Sony saw this as a massive opportunity to drive a winner home while also expanding its advertising possibilities with corporate partners. Look at Iron Man 2 when that came out - which ended up with a massive marketing budget back in 2010 ($100M). This of course noted from an entity that specializes in advertising.

'IRON MAN 2' SPARKS $100M MARKETING BONANZA

Marvel spent so much not just because they needed to get the word out Tony Stark/Iron Man was back. At that point it was realized they had a surprise hit to follow up on. It was all the partnerships they could capitalize on as part of this next film rollout. Because - and I am in business so I guess that makes me an expert - 'it takes money to make more money'. :wink:

Your focus on Wonder Woman movie bashing is your choice. Meanwhile, at the Domestic market where it dealt with less concerns over a female lead and Gadot's Israeli background, the movie topped out exceeding $400M. A fantastic result for an origin superhero movie. Yet from your assessment the rest of world only matters, and nobody should whine that countries banned the movie or that it drastically under-performed in male-dominated countries. Because that would detract from your Spider-Man lovefest.

Whatever floats your boat or spins your globe. Meanwhile, reality is Homecoming's marketing was large to capitalize on what was sure to be a hit, and Wonder Woman outperformed any estimates thrown at it early on - including overcoming the DCEU concerns from previous films.

Spider-Man - the most recognized superhero across the globe - did great. But in an equally-balanced Domestic market, Wonder Woman is still $79.8M ahead. Welcome to the world of reality! You must have chosen the red pill over the blue one.

:foryou:

Yes and Marvel also received boat loads of additional cash in product placement and tie-ins from Iron Man as well.  "Marketing" is not "dollars spent".  It's "media value". There is a REASON why that specific terminology is used rather than the other, so don't conflate the meanings.  And whatever Sony did actually spend on marketing  (TV spots, billboards, etc) was MORE than offset by the aforementioned product placement and tie ins.  I won't even get into the additional one billion+ in ancilliaries.  This shouldn't even be up for debate.  And like I said, since we don't actually know how the details and ins and out of those side deals with promotional partners made, it's probably just best to table that side of the conversation and focus on the info that we do know (like we normally do in every other thread in this sub-forum).

And on that end, you and I aren't actually disagreeing about anything. I never said WW didn't make more than Homecoming domestically. But it did underperform internationally compared to almost every other hero film released in the last ten years. And I'm not the only one who says this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/09/21/wonder-woman-is-the-worst-performing-superhero-film-in-overseas-markets-in-a-decade/amp/

It just wasn't as embraced internationally as it was here.  Whatever the reasons were, those are the reasons and them's the breaks.   I'm sure Warner Bros knew the potential downsides internationally, but don't worry, and as we ended up seeing, it was more than made up for with the hyperactive, foaming at the mouth positive media coverage on the domestic side.  Meanwhile the Chinese embargo on American films probably cost Homecoming $20MM-$30MM there.  Not chump change. That lost money may end up stopping Homecoming from topping the $900MM milestone and being the highest grossing Spiderman movie ever.  But you don't hear Sony, the media, or Marvel fanboys constantly bringing that up as a means to forgive  (or excuse) its final totals.  

And I'm not "bashing" Wonder Woman, I'm using as a point of comparison, just like I've used GOTG 2 and BvS and Suicide Squad. Homecoming made more than ALL of them.  Next up is JLA, and its asinine $250MM budget (after re-shoots).  If that doesn't end up grossing more than Homecoming, that really will be an embarrassment.   Almost as embarrassing as notorious DC hack-boy Scott Mendelson's snarky final BO predictions for Homecoming, circa July 18: lol

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/07/18/spider-man-homecomings-box-office-is-bad-news-for-a-third-hulk/#50c3ac9f320a

(Is this really the best person they can find to talk about these things?)

-J.

Edited by Jaydogrules
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Bosco685

Bosco685

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1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

And I'm not "bashing" Wonder Woman, I'm using as a point of comparison, just like I've used GOTG 2 and BvS and Suicide Squad. Homecoming made more than ALL of them.  Next up is JLA, and its asinine $250MM budget (after re-shoots).  If that doesn't end up grossing more than Homecoming, that really will be an embarrassment.   Almost as embarrassing as notorious DC hack-boy Scott Mendelson's snarky final BO predictions for Homecoming, circa July 18: lol

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/07/18/spider-man-homecomings-box-office-is-bad-news-for-a-third-hulk/#50c3ac9f320a

(Is this really the best person they can find to talk about these things?)

-J.

Some have suspected he is an actual board member. So you could always send him a PM and offer your services.

:baiting:

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