SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING starring Tom Holland (7/28/17) 3 3

[reddwarf666222]

47 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

You say it's about $28MM difference I said about $21MM.  At this point we are probably splitting hairs (though it's interesting, after all the back and forth that our estimates were only $7MM apart).  Even if Homecoming were to finish now (it hasn't), I would argue that Spiderman's bragging rights for a superior worldwide haul would offset what is largely a negligible amount (basically less than the difference between their two budgets, which is probably accounted for by RDJ's paycheck ).

But again, Homecoming is still going.  By the time Homecoming is done, whatever differences in final net profits will be even more menial, but Homecoming will still have those worldwide bragging rights over DC, but to an even greater extent.  And yes Spider-Man is at least one of the top two marketable heroes worldwide but this was his sixth movie in 15 years not his first.  Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of DC's top three, this was her first big screen solo film ever, she had a well received appearance in BvS, and was the beneficiary of relentless mainstream media hype and fawning.   I'm not factoring in where it wasn't released or where it supposedly "under performed" because that's just the breaks of the movie business and is not that relevant (as eloquently pointed out earlier by a boardie). Homecoming had to deal with the Chinese embargo that backlogged American releases and probably led to excessive pirating and a compressed release schedule of American films which is probably cannibalizing their box office there, but you don't see Sony complaining about that.   

-J.

 

Hmmm it is a little more complicated than you think. As of right now Wonder Woman is actually about 120 million ahead of Spider-Man Homecoming when it comes to the overall profit of what the studio will receive if all the expenses came out today. That is also not including revenue shares and bonuses that will need to be paid out. 

Hmm Spider-Man Homecoming had a $250 million dollar commercial made for the film called Captain America Civil War that was well received, Spidey was brought into the MCU that means extra ticket sales for those people who feel they have to see every film in the MCU Universe coming in,  and Robert Downey Jr as Iron Man was in the film all that should have pushed the film to over 400 million especially if Spidey is the so called top two superhero in the world. I would argue Superman's S and the bat symbol are more recognizable.

What incentive did people have to go see Wonder Woman? The DCU has been performing badly since Man of Steel. Every film in that series had gotten a rotten rating. Wonder Woman had a much higher hill to climb than Spidey Homecoming ever did.

You should look at the numbers below and do homework.

 

 

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

3 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

 

Hmmm it is a little more complicated than you think. As of right now Wonder Woman is actually about 120 million ahead of Spider-Man Homecoming when it comes to the overall profit of what the studio will receive if all the expenses came out today. That is also not including revenue shares and bonuses that will need to be paid out. 

Hmm Spider-Man Homecoming had a $250 million dollar commercial made for the film called Captain America Civil War that was well received, Spidey was brought into the MCU that means extra ticket sales for those people who feel they have to see every film in the MCU Universe coming in,  and Robert Downey Jr as Iron Man was in the film all that should have pushed the film to over 400 million especially if Spidey is the so called top two superhero in the world. I would argue Superman's S and the bat symbol are more recognizable.

What incentive did people have to go see Wonder Woman? The DCU has been performing badly since Man of Steel. Every film in that series had gotten a rotten rating. Wonder Woman had a much higher hill to climb than Spidey Homecoming ever did.

You should look at the numbers below and do homework.

 

 

 

 

No offense but I take this unverifiable document with a grain of salt.  

-J.

[reddwarf666222]

11 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

No offense but I take this unverifiable document with a grain of salt.  

-J.

I get it you love Spidey, but you lost your your argument. 

 

[comic_memories]

I don't know.... movie isn't done makin' money.  yet we continue down this comparison path. Seems like a waste of energy

[reddwarf666222]

13 minutes ago, comic_memories said:

I don't know.... movie isn't done makin' money.  yet we continue down this comparison path. Seems like a waste of energy

Can Homecoming make up a roughly 120 million profit gap with the markets left?

Nope

[Bosco685]

10 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

No offense but I take this unverifiable document with a grain of salt.  

-J.

No offense taken by me. That's just all the details out there from credible sources such as Deadline.com, Box Office Mojo and theNumbers. Along with reports of what marketing budgets are estimated to be.

But it's just like the details you pull together. Taken with a grain of salt. We don't have all the details behind-the-scenes, which is why I noted revenue-sharing deals not included in that detailed estimate. No harm done.

[Bosco685]

10 hours ago, comic_memories said:

I don't know.... movie isn't done makin' money.  yet we continue down this comparison path. Seems like a waste of energy

I don't know. It's a chat board. People are going to use past experiences with other movies to assess what they think is occurring. Kind of like discussing a comic series as it is released - not once it is done.

[Jaydogrules]

4 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

No offense taken by me. That's just all the details out there from credible sources such as Deadline.com, Box Office Mojo and theNumbers. Along with reports of what marketing budgets are estimated to be.

But it's just like the details you pull together. Taken with a grain of salt. We don't have all the details behind-the-scenes, which is why I noted revenue-sharing deals not included in that detailed estimate. No harm done.

As someone with a minor background in film, I can assure you that the "estimated" marketing budget for Homecoming on that posted document is preposterous nonsense, and it is closer to being the delusional ramblings of a DC fanboy with too much time on his hands than anything based in fact.  

The facts as we do know them is that Homecoming has grossed more money than Wonder Woman, faster than Wonder Woman, and by the time all the numbers are crunched it will be more profitable than Wonder Woman, as well as the most successful superhero flick of the year so far.  We will give Wonder Woman a nice participation trophy for grossing more domestically, but at the end of the day, second fiddle is still second fiddle.   

-J.

**Edit-  Just checked the latest weekend box office totals.   Homecoming is at $861MM now.  Just $2MM short of GOTG 2.  And still going.    

Edited September 17, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

As someone with a minor background in film, I can assure you that the "estimated" marketing budget for Homecoming on that posted document is preposterous nonsense, and it is closer to being the delusional ramblings of a DC fanboy with too much time on his hands than anything based in fact.  

The facts as we do know them is that Homecoming has grossed more money than Wonder Woman, faster than Wonder Woman, and by the time all the numbers are crunched it will be more profitable than Wonder Woman, as well as the most successful superhero flick of the year so far.  We will give Wonder Woman a nice participation trophy for grossing more domestically, but at the end of the day, second fiddle is still second fiddle.   

-J.

**Edit-  Just checked the latest weekend box office totals.   Homecoming is at $861MM now.  Just $2MM short of GOTG 2.  And still going.    

'preposterous nonsense'?

DEADLINE: ‘Spider-Man: Homecoming’ Delivers Franchise’s Biggest Promotional Campaign At $140M+

HEROIC HOLLYWOOD: ‘Spider-Man: Homecoming’: $140 Million Was Spent On Film’s Marketing Campaign

COMIC BOOK RESOURCES: Spider-Man: Homecoming Promotional Campaign Worth Over $140M

MOVIE PILOT: How Much Did Sony Spend Marketing 'Spider-Man: Homecoming': And Did It Pay Off? ($140+)

I guess you could assume they are all DC fanboys/girls (let's recognize both sides).

'second-fiddle'?

Again, you are very fixated on Spider-Man outdoing Wonder Woman. Like this will put money in your pocket. Meanwhile, reality is Wonder Woman may have just right-sided the DCEU ship while also exceeding all financial goals. Not bad! Meanwhile, all Spider-Man had to do as part of the MCU is have a decent story and actors while it is married up with the large Marvel Universe as the unofficial 16th movie. Good on them!

Oh, and...

Edited September 17, 2017 by Bosco685

[Jaydogrules]

16 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

'preposterous none'?

DEADLINE: ‘Spider-Man: Homecoming’ Delivers Franchise’s Biggest Promotional Campaign At $140M+

HEROIC HOLLYWOOD: ‘Spider-Man: Homecoming’: $140 Million Was Spent On Film’s Marketing Campaign

COMIC BOOK RESOURCES: Spider-Man: Homecoming Promotional Campaign Worth Over $140M

MOVIE PILOT: How Much Did Sony Spend Marketing 'Spider-Man: Homecoming': And Did It Pay Off? ($140+)

I guess you could assume they are all DC fanboys/girls (let's recognize both sides).

'second-fiddle'?

Again, you are very fixated on Spider-Man outdoing Wonder Woman. Like this will put money in your pocket. Meanwhile, reality is Wonder Woman may have just right-sided the DCEU ship while also exceeding all financial goals. Not bad! Meanwhile, all Spider-Man had to do as part of the MCU is have a decent story and actors while it is married up with the large Marvel Universe as the unofficial 16th movie. Good on them!

Oh, and...

....and this is why we in fact do not factor in "marketing budgets" when we do these sorts of analytics  (as you yourself said a few pages back). All those articles make it very clear that Marvel/Sony got equal value through product placement, ancilliaries, etc, with their "promotional partners".  One of those articles estimated Spider-Man ancilliaries to be north of 1.3 billion dollars this year-  that's BILLION. Which is why we are only looking at production budgets, because if we go down that rabbit hole Wonder Woman will just be embarrassed. Those of us who are glad that Homecoming has done so well are for the same reasons that you're glad Wonder Woman did- we would like to see more if our favourite hero on screen.  

And Bosco, I'm very happy DC was able to get a critical win for its movie.  It has gone toe to toe with Marvel's biggest and best and turned in a great solo showing.  I only hope they don't squander that hard earned good will with a terrible, disjointed JLA movie.  

-J.

[Bosco685]

7 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

....and this is why we in fact do not factor in "marketing budgets" when we do these sorts of analytics  (as you yourself said a few pages back). All those articles make it very clear that Marvel/Sony got equal value through product placement, ancilliaries, etc, with their "promotional partners".  One of those articles estimated Spider-Man ancilliaries to be north of 1.3 billion dollars this year-  that's BILLION. Which is why we are only looking at production budgets, because if we go down that rabbit hole Wonder Woman will just be embarrassed. Those of us who are glad that Homecoming has done so well are for the same reasons that you're glad Wonder Woman did- we would like to see more if our favourite hero on screen.  

And Bosco, I'm very happy DC was able to get a critical win for its movie.  It has gone toe to toe with Marvel's biggest and best and turned in a great solo showing.  I only hope they don't squander that hard earned good will with a terrible, disjointed JLA movie.  

-J.

Hey, you are the one that implied DC fanboys were just spreading rumors. Glad you were able to find a silver lining to go along with the large expense. Like the 100% merchandising Disney owns since 2011 won't also be a big win overall as part of this renewed excitement over Spider-Man.

And see - you assume something. I enjoyed Spider-Man: Homecoming. Noted that as soon as I came back from the theater. It's just not top of my Spidey list. So you assumed the discussion was DC vs. Marvel rather than just pointing out your fixation on beating Wonder Woman is Marvel fanboy angst. All these movies have room at the table to succeed. It's then on the studios to deliver. And I agree, let's hope Zack Snyder and Joss Whedon drive this new-found positive experience forward as a consistent trend.

 

[reddwarf666222]

5 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

....and this is why we in fact do not factor in "marketing budgets" when we do these sorts of analytics  (as you yourself said a few pages back). All those articles make it very clear that Marvel/Sony got equal value through product placement, ancilliaries, etc, with their "promotional partners".  One of those articles estimated Spider-Man ancilliaries to be north of 1.3 billion dollars this year-  that's BILLION. Which is why we are only looking at production budgets, because if we go down that rabbit hole Wonder Woman will just be embarrassed. Those of us who are glad that Homecoming has done so well are for the same reasons that you're glad Wonder Woman did- we would like to see more if our favourite hero on screen.  

And Bosco, I'm very happy DC was able to get a critical win for its movie.  It has gone toe to toe with Marvel's biggest and best and turned in a great solo showing.  I only hope they don't squander that hard earned good will with a terrible, disjointed JLA movie.  

-J.

Jaydog we all understand your having a Fanboy moment and can't admit your wrong.

 

The question is which film in the end when all money is in will make more of a profit once expenses came out? The answer is  Wonder Woman most likely by 60 to 80 million since Spidey's two big markets the film is performing are near the end of their runs and not enough to make up the gap.

[reddwarf666222]

1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

Hey, you are the one that implied DC fanboys were just spreading rumors. Glad you were able to find a silver lining to go along with the large expense. Like the 100% merchandising Disney owns since 2011 won't also be a big win overall as part of this renewed excitement over Spider-Man.

And see - you assume something. I enjoyed Spider-Man: Homecoming. Noted that as soon as I came back from the theater. It's just not top of my Spidey list. So you assumed the discussion was DC vs. Marvel rather than just pointing out your fixation on beating Wonder Woman is Marvel fanboy angst. All these movies have room at the table to succeed. It's then on the studios to deliver. And I agree, let's hope Zack Snyder and Joss Whedon drive this new-found positive experience forward as a consistent trend.

 

I actually find Homecoming to be the better film of the two myself, but I can't argue with the facts that present themselves.

[Jaydogrules]

11 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Hey, you are the one that implied DC fanboys were just spreading rumors. Glad you were able to find a silver lining to go along with the large expense. Like the 100% merchandising Disney owns since 2011 won't also be a big win overall as part of this renewed excitement over Spider-Man.

And see - you assume something. I enjoyed Spider-Man: Homecoming. Noted that as soon as I came back from the theater. It's just not top of my Spidey list. So you assumed the discussion was DC vs. Marvel rather than just pointing out your fixation on beating Wonder Woman is Marvel fanboy angst. All these movies have room at the table to succeed. It's then on the studios to deliver. And I agree, let's hope Zack Snyder and Joss Whedon drive this new-found positive experience forward as a consistent trend.

 

Did you actually read past the headlines in the articles ?

Or do you think Sony paid Audi to have its cars featured prominently in the climax, for example.  

Sony/Marvel got equal value for that investment. That's why they are called "promotional partners". Marvel knows how to make movies a smart way.  That's why Sony cried uncle and came to them to show them how it's done.  

And boy did they.  

-J.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Jaydogrules]

7 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Jaydog we all understand your having a Fanboy moment and can't admit your wrong.

 

The question is which film in the end when all money is in will make more of a profit once expenses came out? The answer is  Wonder Woman most likely by 60 to 80 million since Spidey's two big markets the film is performing are near the end of their runs and not enough to make up the gap.

No matter how many times you say this it is still patently absurd.

See my comment above.  

-J.

[Bosco685]

3 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

I actually find Homecoming to be the better film of the two myself, but I can't argue with the facts that present themselves.

The one thing I have been surprised with in major retailers is not this massive merchandising push just yet. I pay attention to what they put on the shelves since the past few years has led to large growth in action figures you couldn't find easily before - if at all. Marvel has dominated the shelves for a long time. I'm just not seeing the Spider-Man: Homecoming large push. Not yet.

[Bosco685]

16 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Did you actually read past the headlines in the articles ?

Or do you think Sony paid Audi to have its cars featured prominently in the climax, for example.  

Sony/Marvel got equal value for that investment. That's they they are called "promotional partners". Marvel knows how to make movies a smart way.  That's why Sony cried uncle and came to them to show them how it's done.  

And boy did they.  

-J.

I very much have read those articles - even this week when I was researching what the estimated marketing spend was for Homecoming.

Have you actually read the details how the Marvel-Sony arrangement came about, as your statement is inaccurate? It was Marve that came to Sony with the proposal to take on Spider-Man. Not the other way around. Most probably not only because of the strong interest to have Spider-Man in the MCU. But also that extremely valuable merchandising rights, which would be directly impacted.

Inside the deal that brought Sony's 'Spider-Man' back to Marvel's cinematic universe

Quote

The idea to bring in Marvel had been in the works long before there was a deal. Feige first pitched Pascal in 2014, during a lunch meeting on her office patio overlooking Culver City, to let him make the next Spider-Man movie.

 

Though Pascal was reluctant at first, the two executives continued to discuss the matter at her office and home, working out what a Marvel Studios “Spider-Man” movie would look like, said people familiar with the discussions but not authorized to comment. Feige wanted to bring Spider-Man and Peter Parker back to his essence — a teenager fighting crime alongside Avengers and dealing with grown-up themes, who also has to get to class on time. Finally, Pascal was convinced.

 

“We've been able to create this cinematic universe that now provides that backdrop onto which you can put Peter Parker and have that dynamic he was always meant to have,” Feige said. “To Amy’s credit and to Michael Lynton's credit, they realized this was the best thing for the character.”

Sony was allowing this franchise to go deeper in the ground with proposals of a 'Sinister Six' movie, 'Agent Aunt May' movie, and then a 'Venom' movie. In no way was it even considering "What if we called Marvel in to teach us how to fix things?"

Edited September 17, 2017 by Bosco685

[Jaydogrules]

3 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I very much have read those articles - even this week when I was researching what the estimated marketing spend was for Homecoming.

Have you actually read the details how the Marvel-Sony arrangement came about, as your statement is inaccurate? It was Marve that came to Sony with the proposal to take on Spider-Man. Not the other way around. Most probably not only because of the strong interest to have Spider-Man in the MCU. But also that extremely valuable merchandising rights, which would be directly impacted.

Inside the deal that brought Sony's 'Spider-Man' back to Marvel's cinematic universe

Sony was allowing this franchise to go deeper in the ground with proposals of a 'Sinister Six' movie, 'Agent Aunt May' movie, and then a 'Venom' movie. In no way was it even considering "What if we called Marvel in to teach us how to fix things?"

Yes I was being colloquial  (not literal).  Marvel offered the olive branch because it didn't like the direction Sony was going and Sony was spending ever higher amounts to make the films with diminishing returns, so they understood that what they were doing was no longer working, hence why they let Marvel take the reigns here, and you have a movie with an appreciably smaller budget than the last several movies. 

-J.

[comic_memories]

When the TOP grossing comic movies of ALL TIME  get posted with inflation adjustments  I guess  we need a new section on the side with 300 reasons why Spiderman is their  (well above WW) but its not a real fact.

[Bosco685]

8 minutes ago, comic_memories said:

When the TOP grossing comic movies of ALL TIME  get posted with inflation adjustments  I guess  we need a new section on the side with 300 reasons why Spiderman is their  (well above WW) but its not a real fact.

Well, let's not forget this all started because someone was concerned there was a conspiracy to ignore Spider-Man making money. So let's mock that too.