SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING starring Tom Holland (7/28/17) 3 3

[Bosco685]

40 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

At the end of the day, you're right, the marketplace is large enough  (for now, at least) to sustain two decent-good movies.  These two, along with GOTG2 propped up the entire summer movie calendar. But blaming "isms" on why WW didnt make a billion dollars makes just about as much sense as blaming the hurricanes on why Homecoming won't.   

-J.

Other than the countries that actually published banning the movie because of Gadot's background...

'Wonder Woman' banned in Lebanon because lead actress is Israeli

Qatar becomes third Arab-majority nation to ban ‘Wonder Woman’

Tunisia bans Wonder Woman

'Wonder Woman' Banned by Several Nations in Racist Protest Against Israeli Actress

... and Russian cinema leads making statements publicly why Wonder Woman would not be taken seriously in their market...

"Superhero movies with a woman as the main character are rather untypical, which has had some impact on the box office performance of Wonder Woman," notes Russia's Exhibitor's Bulletin.

...other than those realities, of course Wonder Woman being new to these markets and the film having a slightly weak third act would impact performance. Nobody could say the film is perfect. And nobody said it had to make a billion dollars to be a success. Though I guess if Homecoming doesn't break a billion dollars does that make it less of a success?

Edited September 10, 2017 by Bosco685

[Jaydogrules]

27 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Other than the countries that actually published banning the movie because of Gadot's background...

'Wonder Woman' banned in Lebanon because lead actress is Israeli

Qatar becomes third Arab-majority nation to ban ‘Wonder Woman’

Tunisia bans Wonder Woman

'Wonder Woman' Banned by Several Nations in Racist Protest Against Israeli Actress

... and Russian cinema leads making statements publicly why Wonder Woman would not be taken seriously in their market...

"Superhero movies with a woman as the main character are rather untypical, which has had some impact on the box office performance of Wonder Woman," notes Russia's Exhibitor's Bulletin.

...other than those realities, of course Wonder Woman being new to these markets and the film having a slightly weak third act would impact performance. Nobody could say the film is perfect. And nobody said it had to make a billion dollars to be a success. Though I guess if Homecoming doesn't break a billion dollars does that make it less of a success?

Those small countries that wouldn't exhibit WW are hardly box office juggernauts that, at the end of the day, would have impacted the film's final grosses significantly.  And like I said in my prior post, the unabashed and constant media virtue signaling for the movie state side more than made up for that, and then some.  And Russians just didn't like the movie. Apparently neither did the Japanese very much. It happens.  Not every movie will be a raging success in every country. WW copied the Marvel movie making formula and did just fine. Homecoming will do better because, well Spider-Man is just a bigger international brand.   It is what it is.  

-J.

[Bosco685]

17 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Those small countries that wouldn't exhibit WW are hardly box office juggernauts that, at the end of the day, would have impacted the film's final grosses significantly.  And like I said in my prior post, the unabashed and constant media virtue signaling for the movie state side more than made up for that, and then some.  And Russians just didn't like the movie. Apparently neither did the Japanese very much. It happens.  Not every movie will be a raging success in every country. WW copied the Marvel movie making formula and did just fine. Homecoming will do better because, well Spider-Man is just a bigger international brand.   It is what it is.  

-J.

A grouping of those countries get wrapped in the French box office results. I wouldn't take them so lightly.

As far as copying the Marvel formula, I think you missed something. Patty Jenkins and Kevin Feige have both pointed out who they reflect on for their model in doing superhero movies - Richard Donner. The fellow that did a little production called 'Superman: The Movie'.

‘Wonder Woman’ Director Patty Jenkins on Being Inspired by Richard Donner’s ‘Superman’

Kevin Feige and Geoff Johns Pay Tribute to Donner’s Superman

Quote

“In particular, Superman: The Movie is still, to this day, the archetype of the perfect superhero film origin story,” Feige said, “and we watch it before me make almost any one of our films and that’s been the case for the past 17 years since I left the fold to go work for Marvel.”

Silly WB forgot what made it an early superhero success. Jenkins had to remind WB - with a hugely successful movie.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

China brought in $70.8M through the weekend, putting Homecoming over the $800M worldwide mark.

[Jaydogrules]

4 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

China brought in $70.8M through the weekend, putting Homecoming over the $800M worldwide mark.

Holy moly.  This thing did even better there than I expected. 

If the patterns hold it will pass GOTG 2's worldwide total next week....  

-J.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Guardian Comics]

7 hours ago, oakman29 said:

Boy , you guys with your theories and ideas.     Funny

Spider Man Homecoming missed the mark for me= it sucked.

 

Next movie! 

Yours must be a conspiracy theory as well, because it sucked is simply not true.  

We are all just different.

 

Jim

[reddwarf666222]

9 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Other than the countries that actually published banning the movie because of Gadot's background...

'Wonder Woman' banned in Lebanon because lead actress is Israeli

Qatar becomes third Arab-majority nation to ban ‘Wonder Woman’

Tunisia bans Wonder Woman

'Wonder Woman' Banned by Several Nations in Racist Protest Against Israeli Actress

... and Russian cinema leads making statements publicly why Wonder Woman would not be taken seriously in their market...

"Superhero movies with a woman as the main character are rather untypical, which has had some impact on the box office performance of Wonder Woman," notes Russia's Exhibitor's Bulletin.

...other than those realities, of course Wonder Woman being new to these markets and the film having a slightly weak third act would impact performance. Nobody could say the film is perfect. And nobody said it had to make a billion dollars to be a success. Though I guess if Homecoming doesn't break a billion dollars does that make it less of a success?

Is the film less of a success than Wonder Woman? Yes, but that is because of how much more was spent on the budget and then you have to throw in advertising costs for a higher budget film. Wonder Woman's domestic profit means more in the coffers in the end run for that film vs SpiderMan Homecoming. 

Is the film less than a success than other films released under the Marvel banner? Yes and no is the short answer. I think this film should have done over 400 million considering it was brought into the MCU, guest starring Iron Man, and Michael Keaton guest playing Birdman again. Those extra additions should have meant a lot more. That said the reviews were great, the audiences loved it, and We have a Spidey people can like. So success and failure.

The real failure here comes from the studios domestic numbers are down for multiple reasons. So the question is how do you fix that to make people come back. I'll admit I got pissed over the weekend and just said I'm tired of annoying audiences. So 

[Jaydogrules]

21 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Is the film less of a success than Wonder Woman? Yes, but that is because of how much more was spent on the budget and then you have to throw in advertising costs for a higher budget film. Wonder Woman's domestic profit means more in the coffers in the end run for that film vs SpiderMan Homecoming.

Is the film less than a success than other films released under the Marvel banner? Yes and no is the short answer. I think this film should have done over 400 million considering it was brought into the MCU, guest starring Iron Man, and Michael Keaton guest playing Birdman again. Those extra additions should have meant a lot more. That said the reviews were great, the audiences loved it, and We have a Spidey people can like. So success and failure.

The real failure here comes from the studios domestic numbers are down for multiple reasons. So the question is how do you fix that to make people come back. I'll admit I got pissed over the weekend and just said I'm tired of annoying audiences. So 

Um...no.  Homecoming only cost about $25M more than WW.  That difference will be more than made up for by the end of the week, and then some, by a lot.  Plus, Spider-Man is still playing domestically in the top 10 and just opened in China. The question at this point no longer is "will Homecoming be a greater financial success than WW?".  That question was answered in a resounding fashion this week when it passed WW's worldwide total five  weeks ahead of it.   It's "Will Homecoming manage to stretch its 8 mighty legs at or close to 900MM?".

-J.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[reddwarf666222]

5 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Um...no.  Homecoming only cost about $25M more than WW.  That difference will be more than made up for by the end of the week, and then some, by a lot.  Plus, Spider-Man is still playing domestically in the top 10 and just opened in China. The question at this point no longer is "will Homecoming be a greater financial success than WW?".  That question was answered in a resounding fashion this week when it passed WW's worldwide total five  weeks ahead of it.   It's "Will Homecoming manage to stretch its 8 mighty legs at or close to 900MM?".

-J.

What a film pulls in per dollar domestically compared to what the film pulls  in from international is much different per dollar. You have conversion fees, taxes, and more in some countries a film only takes in 20 cents to the dollar. You also have to factor in the advertising budget for Homecoming is also higher than Wonder Woman's advertising budget which is seperate from the production budget. Wonder Woman delivered more money to the studios after expenses than Spider-Man Homecoming did.

[Gatsby77]

7 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

What a film pulls in per dollar domestically compared to what the film pulls  in from international is much different per dollar. You have conversion fees, taxes, and more in some countries a film only takes in 20 cents to the dollar. You also have to factor in the advertising budget for Homecoming is also higher than Wonder Woman's advertising budget which is seperate from the production budget. Wonder Woman delivered more money to the studios after expenses than Spider-Man Homecoming did.

This.

Thank you.

[Bosco685]

9 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

What a film pulls in per dollar domestically compared to what the film pulls  in from international is much different per dollar. You have conversion fees, taxes, and more in some countries a film only takes in 20 cents to the dollar. You also have to factor in the advertising budget for Homecoming is also higher than Wonder Woman's advertising budget which is seperate from the production budget. Wonder Woman delivered more money to the studios after expenses than Spider-Man Homecoming did.

Like has been noted by Deadline.com through their film analysis:

- Domestic: 50% revenue share to studios

- General International Share: 40% revenue share to studios

- China International Share: 25% revenue share to studios

Which is why the analyst sites were so blown away by Wonder Woman's Domestic Box Office success. WB is rolling in the cash, along with basking in the critic and audience sunlight.

[Jaydogrules]

13 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

What a film pulls in per dollar domestically compared to what the film pulls  in from international is much different per dollar. You have conversion fees, taxes, and more in some countries a film only takes in 20 cents to the dollar. You also have to factor in the advertising budget for Homecoming is also higher than Wonder Woman's advertising budget which is seperate from the production budget. Wonder Woman delivered more money to the studios after expenses than Spider-Man Homecoming did.

Okay, your first problem is, you're comparing a solo character's first movie, to another's sixth.  Yes, I know Spider-Man is a much bigger character than Wonder Woman, but still.  

Your second problem is, Wonder Woman didn't even make as much as the first Spider-man movie, not adjusted for inflation, and with that movie getting 0 China box office .

Your third problem is that Homecoming is still not even done with its run yet, so even if your statements (assumptions) were entirely accurate (which they are not) they are premature.  

Your fourth and final problem is that, even using your fuzzy, premature math, Homecoming is only about $21.5MM shy of WW's net profits, $197MM to $175.5MM (by using somewhat rough and rounded numbers in the paradigm cited above by Bosco and his very helpful box office charts).  This is taking into account both films' stated budgets (which usually includes advertising, but, even if it didn't, Spider-man's vastly superior ancilliaries more than offset whatever unknown minor differences there might be in ad budgets).  And bear in mind, Homecoming came out five weeks after WW.  

My original point was that Homecoming has already passed WW's worldwide grosses five weeks sooner.  As an addendum to that, I will now add that it will be a more profitable movie overall than WW by the end of this weekend, four weeks sooner than WW (and will also likely pass GOTG 2 as well and become the highest grossing superhero flick of the year).

-J.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[comic_memories]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:34 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Okay, your first problem is, you're comparing a solo character's first movie, to another's sixth.  Yes, I know Spider-Man is a much bigger character than Wonder Woman, but still.  

Your second problem is, Wonder Woman didn't even make as much as the first Spider-man movie, not adjusted for inflation, and with that movie getting 0 China box office .

Your third problem is that Homecoming is still not even done with its run yet, so even if your statements (assumptions) were entirely accurate (which they are not) they are premature.  

Your fourth and final problem is that, even using your fuzzy, premature math, Homecoming is only about $21.5MM shy of WW's net profits, $197MM to $175.5MM (by using somewhat rough and rounded numbers in the paradigm cited above by Bosco and his very helpful box office charts).  This is taking into account both films' stated budgets (which usually includes advertising, but, even if it didn't, Spider-man's vastly superior ancilliaries more than offset whatever unknown minor differences there might be in ad budgets).  And bear in mind, Homecoming came out five weeks after WW.  

My original point was that Homecoming has already passed WW's worldwide grosses five weeks sooner.  As an addendum to that, I will now add that it will be a more profitable movie overall than WW by the end of this weekend, four weeks sooner than WW (and will also likely pass GOTG 2 as well and become the highest grossing superhero flick of the year).

-J.

Yup, should pass Guardians 2 also. Looking good.  Homecoming   has a smaller budget then Guardians so that's another plus for the final numbers. Creeping along to the TOP TEN list.

[rjrjr]

On 9/10/2017 at 7:42 AM, oakman29 said:

Boy , you guys with your theories and ideas.     Funny

Spider Man Homecoming missed the mark for me= it sucked.

 

Next movie! 

Iron Boy was okay.  Just not sure why he was wearing Spider-Man's costume. 

[Bosco685]

Box Office: 'Spider-Man' Plunges 85% In China

Quote

in somewhat surprising news, Spider-Man: Homecoming dropped a brutal 85% on its second Friday in China, earning just $3.1 million (counting online ticketing fees). That's a bigger drop than Paramount/Viacom Inc.'s Transformers: The Last Knight's 82% plunge and may be a record for a major Hollywood release. That still brings its China total to $93.1m, or about on par with Amazing Spider-Man 2 ($94m in 2014), but the quick collapse is yet another sign that domestic grosses damn well matter for these big movies. Sony’s movie is a hit in North America ($329m), and it’s doing well around the world. So, while China gave the film a shot in the arm and got it over the $800m mark worldwide, it wasn’t a situation where Sony was desperately waiting on the China release to pull it out of the fire.

 

The picture has earned $847 million worldwide, and it’ll be over/under $855m by the end of the weekend. It may not get past Walt Disney's Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 ($864m), but it’s still the MCU’s biggest “not a sequel” worldwide grosser outside of (if you count it as a non-sequel) The Avengers. The big drop in China is a surprise, but money is money and the film is still quite successful. Besides, apples and oranges notwithstanding, Spider-Man: Homecoming took a huge tumble in North America in its second weekend and then righted the ship for a nice and leggy (2.8x its $117m opening) domestic run. Either way, Spider-Man: Homecoming did what it needed to do, in terms of making big bucks and getting fans back on board. So, yeah, this franchise could be saved.

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

I wonder if the fears of mass piracy played out in the end?

[Straw-Man]

85%!

[Real Frantic One]

I still haven't seen this movie. From what I've heard everyone say, I don't think they changed it enough from the source material for my taste. I would recommend the following changes for the sequel to make it more original:

1) Costume is too colorful for someone to fight crime. Needs to be all black.
2) Having him live with his aunt is not cool. Who wants to do that? Place him in a secret hideout that's maybe dark and underground.
3) Talks to himself too much. Get him someone to talk to, like a teen sidekick.
4) I don't buy this nonsense with someone getting around by swinging on webs. Not practical. Why not have him drive around in some kind of "mobile" instead?
5) Get rid of the spider! People don't like spiders, so why should there be a character based on one. Use something cooler - like a bat, for instance.

This would be completely unlike any character that has ever been onscreen before and would shoot ticket sales through the roof! So high that it would project the box office returns onto the sky! Hey, that gives me another idea...

[Jaydogrules]

8 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Box Office: 'Spider-Man' Plunges 85% In China

 

Oh was this another Forbes article?  

Don't worry, it will pass GOTG 2. 

-J.

[reddwarf666222]

32 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Oh was this another Forbes article?  

Don't worry, it will pass GOTG 2. 

-J.

Yet Wonder Woman will be the more profitable film in the end.