Valiant first appearances (quick version for beginners) Now with pictures! 2 2

[SharpComics.com]

 

My god Chris, with the length of time and depth of your Valiant stock, I thought you would be the one of us that would have had multiple hits on this book in 9.8

Personally, I have only ever submitted 1 copy for certification...came back 9.8 white.

I suppose I just got lucky.

 

What the hell am I, chopped liver...?

 

:shrug:

 

 

Yes. May I dine on you with some fava beans and a nice key-anti!

Num num num

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I have personally submitted something approaching a hundred copies of H1. I have never received a 9.8. I believe the 9.8 I have in my Master Set was purchased already graded.

 

I've gotten six.

 

So far.

 

Out of 8 subs (one 9.4 SS, and one 9.8 pre-screen reject.)

 

Don't hate me.

 

How many copies of Harbinger 1 have you held in your hands that had no shot at 9.8?

 

 

Probably 30-40.

[Gatsby77]

 

A notable omission is EW 4, which may simply point to its relative rarity. As stated before, I'd prefer EW 4 to Rai 0.

 

Rather, to the fact that EW #4 hasn't been worth slabbing.

 

This also demonstrates that Rai 4 is indeed harder to find in grade than Rai 3.

 

Such an interesting phrase, "in grade"...like "I'm sure", which means "I'm not sure." It means "in HIGH grade", but "high" is omitted.

 

Anyhoo, no, it just demonstrates that there are more copies of Rai #3 in 9.8 than Rai #4 at the present time. There are very few definitive conclusions that can be drawn from single census snapshots.

 

Sigh...Now you're just being specious.

 

How is EW # 4 not worth slabbing? It had a consistent 9.8 value above $100 in 2012-2013, before dropping more recently. It's traditionally sold for more than Rai 0 in 9.8, which has far far more numbers extant.

 

Further, how is it "not worth slabbing" when far higher numbers of cheaper books (for example, Wolverine 50 & Punisher War Zone 1 or X-Men 288) somehow are?

 

And yes, in this instance "in grade" clearly means "in CGC 9.8."

 

Definitively, Rai 3 is far more common and easier to get than Rai 4 in CGC 9.8. All census data could change with increased submissions, discovery of warehouse finds, etc., but the numbers are what they are today.

 

And Rai 3 is far easier to get "in grade" than Rai 4.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

A notable omission is EW 4, which may simply point to its relative rarity. As stated before, I'd prefer EW 4 to Rai 0.

 

Rather, to the fact that EW #4 hasn't been worth slabbing.

 

This also demonstrates that Rai 4 is indeed harder to find in grade than Rai 3.

 

Such an interesting phrase, "in grade"...like "I'm sure", which means "I'm not sure." It means "in HIGH grade", but "high" is omitted.

 

Anyhoo, no, it just demonstrates that there are more copies of Rai #3 in 9.8 than Rai #4 at the present time. There are very few definitive conclusions that can be drawn from single census snapshots.

 

Sigh...Now you're just being specious.

 

No, I'm correcting erroneous statements.

 

There's a difference.

 

How is EW # 4 not worth slabbing? It had a consistent 9.8 value above $100 in 2012-2013, before dropping more recently. It's traditionally sold for more than Rai 0 in 9.8, which has far far more numbers extant.

 

$100 is a "starting point" for most slabbers of books for resale. Less than that, and it's generally not worth the time and effort to target a specific book.

 

And "a consistent value above $100 in 2012"...?

 

There were four recorded sales in 2012: one for $41, one for $85, one for $110, and one for $120. I don't know how four sales = consistent, but that's an average of $89 for the year.

 

Now, 2013...12 sales, for an average of $102. Ok, now we're starting to get somewhere.

 

But...here comes 2014, and the average is..$49, with one sale at $20...meaning, the slabber lost money on the effort.

 

So, no, EW #4 has not been "worth slabbing" by those who are looking to resell.

 

If you're going to say things, you have to be prepared to have them challenged. If you've got your facts up to snuff, there shouldn't be any problem, right?

 

I don't get annoyed when people challenge me. Well, sometimes I do...depends on who, and how...

 

Further, how is it "not worth slabbing" when far higher numbers of cheaper books (for example, Wolverine 50 & Punisher War Zone 1 or X-Men 288) somehow are?

 

Because there are far more collectors of Wolverine, Punisher, and X-Men.

 

"Worth slabbing" means "I'm going to slab this to sell to someone." That is why you don't see more copies of EW #4 in 9.8.

 

Slabbing for yourself is slabbing for yourself, and only the individual can determine for himself if it is "worth slabbing."

 

And yes, in this instance "in grade" clearly means "in CGC 9.8."

 

It does...? That's neither here nor there, but as I was not commenting on your specific use of the phrase, which should have been fairly clear.

 

Definitively, Rai 3 is far more common and easier to get than Rai 4 in CGC 9.8.

 

I don't know if "definitively" is the correct word, but again, that is not a statement that can be made. What does "far more common" mean? Nail it down with quantification, not qualification. How do you know it's "easier to get"?

 

The only thing we know from the census is that, currently, there are more copies of Rai #3 in 9.8 than Rai #4. We do not know that it is "easier to get", nor do we know if that will always be the case. We can say Rai #3 tends to be easier to get in 9.8 than #3, but you can't make that claim for sure (and you never will be able to.)

 

All census data could change with increased submissions, discovery of warehouse finds, etc., but the numbers are what they are today.

 

And Rai 3 is far easier to get "in grade" than Rai 4.

 

By what measure?

[Gatsby77]

You're free to define "worth slabbing" however you like.

 

The fact remains, far more Rai 0s have been slabbed at 9.8 than EW 4s, despite the latter having (traditionally) higher sale value (per the small % of sales reflected in GPA). Was that caveated and specific enough?

 

Likewise, many many more people felt books like Wolverine 50, PWZ 1, Spider-Man 2099 1, etc. were "worth slabbing" despite having lower avg. sale prices than EW 4.

 

You're making unprovable assumptions about why people slab, when I'm simply pointing out seemingly illogical disparities in hard numbers from two of the best data sources we have.

 

Separately, I apologize but I still don't understand your lack of clarity on the Rai 3 being "easier to get" in 9.8 than Rai 4.

 

The exact comparative numbers of each book were already listed, in this thread, within the last 72 hours. It's a fact -- "far more" CGC 9.8 copies of the former exist than the latter.

 

Yes -- cosmically, perhaps all of the Rai 3s are owned by one hoarder who will never put them up for sale, or all of the Rai 3s listed on the census have since been de-slabbed or pressed by amateurs into 9.4s.

 

But if one book has 1,000 CGC 9.8s extant vs. another with 3 CGC 9.8 copies extant, the former is "easier to get" in 9.8.

[RockMyAmadeus]

You're free to define "worth slabbing" however you like.

 

No, "worth slabbing" is how it's always been defined: if I buy this book, will it be worth the cost to slab so I can then sell it?

 

And if that answer is no, then it won't be slabbed.

 

It has nothing to do with people who have the desire and resources to slab them for their own personal collections. To them, whether a book is "worth slabbing" becomes meaningless. If they want that book in a slab, it will always be "worth slabbing."

 

The fact remains, far more Rai 0s have been slabbed at 9.8 than EW 4s, despite the latter having (traditionally) higher sale value (per the small % of sales reflected in GPA). Was that caveated and specific enough?

 

That's right....and that's because Rai #0 is a more important book to more collectors than EW #4 is. Rai #0 has always been a foundational book in the Valiant universe...and EW #4 has not, and is not.

 

More people want a Rai #0 slabbed, so of course there will be more 9.8 slabs of it.

 

Likewise, many many more people felt books like Wolverine 50, PWZ 1, Spider-Man 2099 1, etc. were "worth slabbing" despite having lower avg. sale prices than EW 4.

 

Again...."worth slabbing" has to do with the cost of the book plus the cost of the slabbing process versus what they can SELL it for. They (generally) have no intention of keeping the book, the point is to sell it. That's what "worth slabbing" means, and has always meant.

 

People slabbing for themselves are not doing it because it's "worth slabbing"...because they don't care how much it's worth; they just want it in a slab. And there are FEWER of those people willing to pay the money to slab an EW #4 than a Rai #0, and much fewer than Wolverine, Punisher, X-Men, Spiderman, etc.

 

I thought I made that pretty clear, but hopefully it's more clear now.

 

You're making unprovable assumptions about why people slab,

 

No, they are quite provable, and on display all over this board.

 

People slab a comic book for the following reasons:

 

1. To sell the book.

 

2. Because they want the book in a slab for themselves (registry, SS, they like slabs, etc.)

 

3. To check for restoration (which really falls under #1 or #2 moslty.)

 

Those aren't assumptions; they're demonstrably proven. Since moderns aren't (with few exceptions) slabbed for reason #3, that leaves #1 or #2. There aren't any other reasons. People don't slab books because the slabs make excellent coasters. And they don't slab books because the slab has a wonderful feng shui effect on their living rooms.

 

They slab books to keep, or they slab them to sell. There aren't any other reasons to slab.

 

Why on earth would you say those are "unprovable assumptions"?

 

when I'm simply pointing out seemingly illogical disparities in hard numbers from two of the best data sources we have.

 

And I'm pointing out the fact that conclusions made about books on the census....which many people around make much too casually...are not anywhere near as conclusive as they would like them to be.

 

Separately, I apologize but I still don't understand your lack of clarity on the Rai 3 being "easier to get" in 9.8 than Rai 4.

 

The exact comparative numbers of each book were already listed, in this thread, within the last 72 hours. It's a fact -- "far more" CGC 9.8 copies of the former exist than the latter.

 

No one is disputing the census data. That would be silly. And since I'm not silly, it's safe to assume I'm not disputing it, either.

 

Yes -- cosmically, perhaps all of the Rai 3s are owned by one hoarder who will never put them up for sale, or all of the Rai 3s listed on the census have since been de-slabbed or pressed by amateurs into 9.4s.

 

But if one book has 1,000 CGC 9.8s extant vs. another with 3 CGC 9.8 copies extant, the former is "easier to get" in 9.8.

 

I see.

 

If by "easier to get", you mean "easier to obtain an already slabbed 9.8 copy", then yes, that is true.

 

If by "easier to get", you mean "easier to find a copy that will grade 9.8", then the answer is "you cannot conclude that."

 

It is fairly clear that you mean the former, but "easier to get" has nearly always meant, on this board, "easier to find a copy that will grade such and such."

 

"I got a 9.8!" - doesn't mean "I purchased a 9.8 slab!" as you are using it here...it means you sent in a raw book, and it came back 9.8. Nobody really cares that someone bought an existing 9.8 slab. That takes no effort. But getting a 9.8 out of a raw book...now that's something to get excited about.

 

But I can see where the confusion would lie. You're using common CGC board phraseology to mean things other than what they commonly mean.

 

Understood.

 

However, this:

 

This also demonstrates that Rai 4 is indeed harder to find in grade than Rai 3.

 

Does not typically mean what you are actually saying. It typically means "Rai #4 is harder to find in grade raw than Rai #3."

 

What you meant was "Rai #4 is indeed harder to find already slabbed in 9.8 than Rai #3", which is self-evident from the census data, and wouldn't really need to be mentioned.

[BishopT]

Well, I just hit the jackpot... just picked up 36 90s Valiants for a dollar a piece, the vast majority being pre-Unity. Absolutely thrilled to have found these, especially:

 

Archer and Armstrong #0

Shadowman #1

Harbinger #1 with card (a couple of tiny spine ticks are the only flaws I can find)

Harbinger #3 with card

Harbinger #4 with card

Eternal Warrior 4,5,6 (all look like 9.8 candidates)

Solar #3 (another 9.8 candidate)

Solar #10 (also appears to be near that 9.8 condition... in all, I picked up 1-10 tonight all in great shape)

X O Manowar #1

X O Manowar #4

 

My short box of Valiant that I started a few weeks ago is quickly turning into a long box.

 

[CongoBill]

Well, I just hit the jackpot... just picked up 36 90s Valiants for a dollar a piece, the vast majority being pre-Unity. Absolutely thrilled to have found these, especially:

 

Archer and Armstrong #0

Shadowman #1

Harbinger #1 with card (a couple of tiny spine ticks are the only flaws I can find)

Harbinger #3 with card

Harbinger #4 with card

Eternal Warrior 4,5,6 (all look like 9.8 candidates)

Solar #3 (another 9.8 candidate)

Solar #10 (also appears to be near that 9.8 condition... in all, I picked up 1-10 tonight all in great shape)

X O Manowar #1

X O Manowar #4

 

My short box of Valiant that I started a few weeks ago is quickly turning into a long box.

 

 

WOW! All of those for a buck a piece? I've been scouring my local comics shops and they all seem hip to the renewed interest in older Valiants. The few keys I've seen have been priced up, but the reality is I haven't seen that many Valiant keys at all (I'm in San Diego, btw).

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

Well, I just hit the jackpot... just picked up 36 90s Valiants for a dollar a piece, the vast majority being pre-Unity. Absolutely thrilled to have found these, especially:

 

Archer and Armstrong #0

Shadowman #1

Harbinger #1 with card (a couple of tiny spine ticks are the only flaws I can find)

Harbinger #3 with card

Harbinger #4 with card

Eternal Warrior 4,5,6 (all look like 9.8 candidates)

Solar #3 (another 9.8 candidate)

Solar #10 (also appears to be near that 9.8 condition... in all, I picked up 1-10 tonight all in great shape)

X O Manowar #1

X O Manowar #4

 

My short box of Valiant that I started a few weeks ago is quickly turning into a long box.

They tend to multiply. I've got about 12 long-boxes worth of old school and current Valiants.

[FormerReader]

Well, I just hit the jackpot... just picked up 36 90s Valiants for a dollar a piece, the vast majority being pre-Unity. Absolutely thrilled to have found these, especially:

 

Archer and Armstrong #0

Shadowman #1

Harbinger #1 with card (a couple of tiny spine ticks are the only flaws I can find)

Harbinger #3 with card

Harbinger #4 with card

Eternal Warrior 4,5,6 (all look like 9.8 candidates)

Solar #3 (another 9.8 candidate)

Solar #10 (also appears to be near that 9.8 condition... in all, I picked up 1-10 tonight all in great shape)

X O Manowar #1

X O Manowar #4

 

My short box of Valiant that I started a few weeks ago is quickly turning into a long box.

 

Wow! Congrats!

[FormerReader]

Well, I just hit the jackpot... just picked up 36 90s Valiants for a dollar a piece, the vast majority being pre-Unity. Absolutely thrilled to have found these, especially:

 

Archer and Armstrong #0

Shadowman #1

Harbinger #1 with card (a couple of tiny spine ticks are the only flaws I can find)

Harbinger #3 with card

Harbinger #4 with card

Eternal Warrior 4,5,6 (all look like 9.8 candidates)

Solar #3 (another 9.8 candidate)

Solar #10 (also appears to be near that 9.8 condition... in all, I picked up 1-10 tonight all in great shape)

X O Manowar #1

X O Manowar #4

 

My short box of Valiant that I started a few weeks ago is quickly turning into a long box.

They tend to multiply. I've got about 12 long-boxes worth of old school and current Valiants.

 

I'm at 11 long boxes of Valiant. Then there's the slabs.

[Awax]

Well, I just hit the jackpot... just picked up 36 90s Valiants for a dollar a piece, the vast majority being pre-Unity. Absolutely thrilled to have found these, especially:

 

Archer and Armstrong #0

Shadowman #1

Harbinger #1 with card (a couple of tiny spine ticks are the only flaws I can find)

Harbinger #3 with card

Harbinger #4 with card

Eternal Warrior 4,5,6 (all look like 9.8 candidates)

Solar #3 (another 9.8 candidate)

Solar #10 (also appears to be near that 9.8 condition... in all, I picked up 1-10 tonight all in great shape)

X O Manowar #1

X O Manowar #4

 

My short box of Valiant that I started a few weeks ago is quickly turning into a long box.

 

 

WOW! All of those for a buck a piece? I've been scouring my local comics shops and they all seem hip to the renewed interest in older Valiants. The few keys I've seen have been priced up, but the reality is I haven't seen that many Valiant keys at all (I'm in San Diego, btw).

 

So am I

[BishopT]

Actually, upon further inspection in my rebagging, Harbinger #1 does have a tear from the bottom staple that goes about 1/4 of an inch up into the cover... still, though, I'm very glad to have this. Don't know how much that tear bumps down the quality, but it's still worth my while, haha.

 

Yeah, I'm in South Carolina and I've gotten in good with the GM at the 2nd and Charles down the street... he lets me look through one of the many long boxes he has yet to sort through in the back per week and lets me have whatever I find for a buck a piece. He knew I had been looking for Valiants and told me of an all Valiant box he got in a week or so ago, and tonight he let me look through it. I definitely owe him something for all of the great stuff I've gotten from him for cheap, especially this most recent box dive.

[valiantman]

The question of "worth slabbing" (in order to sell) seems like a tough one.

 

What does the math look like?

 

If I can make $40 profit now with a raw book or I can get the book graded and make $60 profit, is it worth slabbing?

 

$60 profit is greater than $40 profit, but the question of "now vs. later" and the question of "as-is vs. after-additional-slabbing-costs" seem to be factors that make "worth slabbing" answers somewhat unclear.

 

$60/$40 is just an example... how is the answer impacted by changing those dollar amounts?

[MediumLover]

Well, I just hit the jackpot... just picked up 36 90s Valiants for a dollar a piece, the vast majority being pre-Unity. Absolutely thrilled to have found these, especially:

 

Archer and Armstrong #0

Shadowman #1

Harbinger #1 with card (a couple of tiny spine ticks are the only flaws I can find)

Harbinger #3 with card

Harbinger #4 with card

Eternal Warrior 4,5,6 (all look like 9.8 candidates)

Solar #3 (another 9.8 candidate)

Solar #10 (also appears to be near that 9.8 condition... in all, I picked up 1-10 tonight all in great shape)

X O Manowar #1

X O Manowar #4

 

My short box of Valiant that I started a few weeks ago is quickly turning into a long box.

 

 

 

 

WOW! All of those for a buck a piece? I've been scouring my local comics shops and they all seem hip to the renewed interest in older Valiants. The few keys I've seen have been priced up, but the reality is I haven't seen that many Valiant keys at all (I'm in San Diego, btw).

 

So am I

 

Me too.

[zupaphly]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/wc-15-yes-we-can-guarantee-a-valiant-film-will-be-made

[carter3175]

Bob Layton is going to be doing some work huh. I have to see this.

[Bosco685]

The better news.

 

He said, though, the information about "Bloodshot" being optioned by Sony leaked "and we had to catch up a little bit." Shamdasani added that "‘Bloodshot’ is much, much further along than people think; it will shock you how far along it is."

 

"There is big news coming on ‘Harbinger,’ there is big news coming on ‘X-O Manowar.’ Other things have already leaked. We have things in the works that will turn people’s heads."

[___]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/wc-15-yes-we-can-guarantee-a-valiant-film-will-be-made

 

[UltraMaximus]

I just picked up some more VEI (New) books. Rai is so good for those who like his original story in the flip of Magnus 5-8.