Stoned Age comix appreciation thread

[comicwiz]

Mine was a question born out of curiosity; surely there already exists a collection out there worthy of a pedigree status that contains a fair sprinkling of UG's ? Anyone?

 

http://www.comicspriceguide.com/forum2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18862

 

I did some research for this thread... sources are Heritage (in all but one case) and Pedigree Comics

Known Pedigree Comix

Comix Book #2 Massachusetts CGC 9.8 $200

Kurtzman Komix #1 Kurtzman File Copy CGC 8.0 $72.00

 

**Non-ZAP Donahue File Copies**

Bijou Funnies #1 2nd Donahue File Copy CGC 9.4 $150

Black And White Comics #nn Donahue File Copy CGC 9.8 $356.50

Funny Aminals #1 Donahue File Copy CGC 9.0 $120.75

(bleep) Comics #1 Donahue File Copy CGC 9.6 $500

Jiz Comics #nn Donahue File Copy CGC 9.9 $1,700

Mr. Natural #1 2nd Donahue File Copy CGC 9.6 $235.75

Snatch Comics #1 3rd Donahue File Copy CGC 9.8 $120.75-$299.00 (1)

Snatch Comics #2 4th Donahue File Copy CGC 9.8 $120.75-$299.00

Snatch Comics #3 Donahue File Copy CGC 9.9 $1,200

Snatch Comics #3 Donahue File Copy CGC 9.8 $700(2)

Your Hytone Comix #nn Donahue File Copy CGC 9.4 $72.45

 

**ZAP COMIX Donahue/Schenker File Copies**

Zap Comix #0 Donahue File Copy CGC NM+ 9.6 $2,800

Zap Comix #0 Yellow variant; Schenker File Copy CGC 8.0 $1,400

Zap Comix #0, File copy (slight stain) CGC 9.2 $1,730

Zap Comix #1 2nd Donahue File Copy CGC 9.4 $660

Zap Comix #2, Schenker File copy CGC 9.2 $1,400

Zap Comix #3 Schenker File Copy CGC 9.4 $720

Zap Comix #4 File Copy CGC 9.6 $750

Zap Comix 7 (mini) Donahue File Copy NM $78.20 **only ungraded sold as File Copy

Zap #8 Schenker File Copy CGC 9.2 $40

 

**Fred Todd (Rip Off Press) File Copies**; raw w/ signed COA

Air Pirates Funnies #1 Fred Todd File Copy CGC 9.4 $1,207.50

Air Pirates Funnies #2, Fred Todd File Copy CGC 9.2 $603.75

Baron Von Mabel's Back Packing - Softcover - Fred Todd File Copy NM $16.00

Feelgood Funnies #1 Fred Todd File Copy CGC 9.6 $460.00

Forty Year Old Hippie Catalog #1 Fred Todd File Copy FN/VF $13.00

Freak Brothers #1 (1991) Fred Todd File Copy NM $26.00

Freak Brothers #1 9th Fred Todd File Copy CGC 8.5 Pink pages $264.50

Exile Into Consciousness Limited Edition - Fred Todd File Copy $63.25

Mother's Oats #3 Fred Todd File Copy VF $28.00

Mother's Oats #3 Fred Todd File Copy, Signed NM- $103.50

People's Comics nn Fred Todd File Copy NM $24.00

Pro Junior #1 Fred Todd File Copy NM $42.00

Radical America V3#1 Fred Todd File Copy VF $75

Radical America V3#1 Fred Todd File Copy, Signed VF- $70

Short Order Comix #2 Fred Todd File Copy NM- $17.00

Skull Comics #1 Fred Todd File Copy VF/NM $44.00

Slow Death #1 Fred Todd File Copy FN+ $17.00

Turned On Cuties #nn Fred Todd File Copy NM- $23.00

Testosterone City nn 2nd Fred Todd File Copy NM- $17.00

Weird Fantasies #1 Fred Todd File Copy FN- $11.00

Wonder Wart-Hog and the Battle of the Titans #nn Fred Todd File Copy NM $14.00[/size=1]

 

**IRS Collection**[/b]; raw w/ COA

Bizarre Sex #9 5th IRS; VF- $5

Funny Aminals nn IRS; F/VF $28

Yellow Dog #18; IRS; VG-F $10

Yellow Dog #20; IRS; VG $10

Vaughn Bode Diary Sketchbook #1; IRS; NM $10[/size=1]

 

justin2003

 

Your contributions to this thread, and the UG thread at CPG have been by far some of the best, most informed posts I've read anywhere. Great stuff!

 

First off, I think that a distinction needs to be made between a "file copy" and a "pedigree" book. I don't particularly think the two of them should ever be confused, even though the two generally find their way into the same discussion whenever the concept of high-grade anything is brought up.

 

With regard to the pedigree examples on your list, I don't regard Comix #2 as an UG. The Kurtzman comic is a VF, and although I would regard this an UG, the grade itself doesn't hold true to the designation all that well.

 

I like Matt Nelsons treatment of pedigrees in this article, and although I agree with most of what he says, I do believe that Matt's treatment of pedigree would fall severely short with regard to UG's. Specifcally when he begins to describe how full runs of a specific title in a collection, grades, and the impression of completeness play a strong role in deciding whether a collection ought to be bequeathed pedigree designation. This rings particularly true with the Mile Highs.

 

The major difficulty with me recognizing any UG as "pedigree" is not so much that there are still some collections out there that have not yet been seen, but that the titles, and often times, the sequential aspect of a run outlived the publishers of the books themselves. With Marvel or DC, you knew who would carry forward the title of Captain America and Spider-Man, with rarely any interruptions in the run. With UG's, there were huge gaps in both their publication/printing and distribution which often made it difficult for a completist to follow the time-line of a particular run to the very end, let alone obtain a complete run of books from Apex, Kitchen Sink or Last Gasp. Zap Comix #15 just came out -- over 35 years after Zap 1 was first printed. A more convincing argument can be made with print variations, as most UG completists are of the opinion that no UG collection is complete without owning every print. With Zap Comix #1 alone, you would have to come up with over 30 different copies, between different prints, and country variants (eg. UK edition) -- quite a daunting task, wouldn't you say? After all, despite the fact that the cover price is different and maybe a few minor improvements to the cover art, the story is told the same in each print variation.

 

Another aspect that seems to impact a "file copy" designation with CGC is the person submitting the books. Simply put, my Zap Comix 1 NM 9.4 came from Don Donahue, and "technically speaking", had Don decided to hang on to the book and decided instead to sell it through Heritage today, there is no doubt in my mind that it would have recieved a "file copy" designation. The thing that I cannot seem to wrap my head around is how CGC knows for certain that the books are coming from Don's backstock. When I purchased my Zap 1, it was through a 3rd-party who purchased it from Don. On numerous occassions and spanning the last 5 years (at least), I had asked Don for any/all high-caliber books, and Don claimed he did not have any. When I purchased my book, I had come to know that the previous owner was contacted by Don about the book. This was a month after I had emailed Don asking if he had come across any copies, which meant that in all probability, it didn't come from Don's backstock, and he may have acquired it or brokered the sale on someone's behalf.

 

An extraneous factor for me not accepting pedigree designation, albeit a self-interested one, is that I would rather not like to see the same negative suspicion and false sense of attainment in mainstream books cross over to UG's. More specifically, I'd really hate to see UG's being doctored, colour touched, trimmed and restored for the same greed-driven reasons that its done with mainstream books. Thankfully, and despite one glaring exception (i.e. forum member EggsAckley being the only person I have ever encountered who had a Zap 5 from Don's backstock return from CGC with a purple label - CT) I can't say I've seen any UG's exhibiting this problem.

 

Having said all this, my best advice to anyone trying to round out their UG collection is that you buy what you like, and pay what you can afford. I happen to like adding only high-grade examples to my collection. It does not matter to me whether they have "pedigree" or "file-copy" designation, or the comment written on the label. At least in my own collecting pursuits, there are numerous instances of higher graded non-file copies than most "file-copy" examples I've seen out there.

[comicwiz]

Comicwiz

 

Mine was a question born out of curiosity; surely there already exists a collection out there worthy of a pedigree status that contains a fair sprinkling of UG's ? Anyone?

 

I can see your point Fandango. I'm just not sure that the same rules of pedigree designation ought to apply with UG's. BTW: I tried to PM you and I keep getting:

 

We cannot proceed.

 

Please use your back button to return to the previous page.

 

Anyone have an idea why this is happening? Is it possible I've reached my PM quota and need to delete some PM's before I can start using it again?

[comicwiz]

Looks like my copy of the UG checklist is still the only one on the census

 

Thanks for the heads-up Norinn Radd

[oldmilwaukee6er]

I like Matt Nelsons treatment of pedigrees in this article, and although I agree with most of what he says, I do believe that Matt's treatment of pedigree would fall severely short with regard to UG's. Specifcally when he begins to describe how full runs of a specific title in a collection, grades, and the impression of completeness play a strong role in deciding whether a collection ought to be bequeathed pedigree designation. This rings particularly true with the Mile Highs.

I liked this article- thank you. But by such a strict definition (devils advocate), and considering file copies are not pedigree, then Comix Book #2 is among the ONLY pedigree comix on the list (auth/cert). Also, it will be interesting to see how the market greets PGX IRS/Fred Todd Files, that are slabbed with their COAs (but that won't be for years b/c I'm gonna hold mine). ALSO, Donahue's collection, if not bled into the market over 30 years, would definitely qualify... still Donahue copies deserve special treatment, which is why I save documentation for all my Donahues.

 

I know why you don't consider Comix Book a UG (abovegrd/mainstream attempt) but arguably it will count to 2nd generation UG collectors ( 2nd? Maus ); and all the talent they've been shown in the lit. is involved, BUT it is listed in Overstreet. It's just that I really appreciate this series Justin

[FlyingDonut]

Harold Hedd 2. I had forgotten just how whacked this book is. Rand Holmes was a weird [#@$%!!!], let me tell you.

 

[rjpb]

Rand was great - the pothead's Wally Wood - with some great writing as well, makes me want to dig out a pile of his stuff and re-read it again. Every time I dig through my undergrounds I realize it's been 25 years or so since I've read some of them - man am I getting old.

 

Wally Wood is gone, Rand Holmes is gone, but stylistically, Rick Altergott of "Doofus" fame carries the torch, he's funny as [#@$%!!!] too.

[oldmilwaukee6er]

Rand was great - the pothead's Wally Wood

that is very funny... you know this was one place Jay Kennedy was wrong; there was a 50c printing versus the 75c he listed as 1st in his 1982 guide.

 

Edited: another great example of Rand Holmes' Wood-esque SF work would be the cvr for Death Rattle #4 (vol 2)

[Fandango]

 

Some recent arrivals:

 

First print, 1978

 

 

First print, 1973

 

 

Third print, 1967

 

 

First print new cover:

 

[rjpb]

Excellent books, Fandango - Deitch, Brand, Spain , Crumb - great reading across the board

 

I recently picked up the new cover version of Best Buy at a LCS for cover price. They had a whole bunch of them in and displayed with the new comics. I didn't buy it back in the 80s because I already had the 1st print, but for $2.50, I figured what the hell, it'll give me a chance to reread it. I've noticed this sort of thing happening now and then over the last 25 years, where a Last Gasp or Print Mint, or one of the UG distributors must come across a few boxes of "out-of-print" UGs in storage, and resolicit them to retailers.

[Fandango]

Best Buy is a great read - have a copy of the original issue arriving next week

[comicwiz]

Best Buy is a great read - have a copy of the original issue arriving next week

 

Nice books Fandango; and a for resurrecting this great thread -- if at the very least, it served as a reminder that I still had to pay for the UG lot I picked up from Vault

 

In addition to picking up the UG checklist and Jay's guide from Vault, here are the last two books I picked up:

 

Further Adventures of those Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers -- Pink Pages Edition:

 

 

 

And for ArAich , a copy of Funny Aminals, misspelt just as it appears on the cover:

 

 

[comicwiz]

Comicwiz - thanks for posting, I hope you have time in the future to post a few scans.

 

Here are a few to add to the list:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[howardhallis]

Beautiful collection! What does the label notes for Air Pirates Funnies #1 say? I know that comic caused Disney to sue the pants off the publisher!

[Fandango]

Great books, thanks for sharing.

[comicwiz]

Beautiful collection! What does the label notes for Air Pirates Funnies #1 say? I know that comic caused Disney to sue the pants off the publisher!

 

Thanks wdb23/Fandango

 

The label notes on the Air Pirates 1 read "Banned from Future Sales and Reprinting after Courts sided with Disney lawsuit." You can read more about the history of the book here. All the graded books were ones I graded about 3-4 years ago. It's a long story, but I stopped submitting UG's, especially in cases where a first printing could not be determined by exterior/cover inspection. I've got a mess of books which are in the hyper high-grade strata which I may someday reconsider submitting, and if time permits, I'll take a few scans of those and post them here.

[rjpb]

Underground? Fanzine? Prozine? Allstars is a magazine sized squarebound published by Gary Arlington in 1970 with a great Rick Griffin cover and B/W interiors printed on a variety of colored paper with art by Crumb, Dietch, Shelton, Ditko, Jeff Jones and Roger Brand among others. Much of it consists of pin-ups and cover concepts, but does include what look like a couple of Warren horror story rejects. The tape down the spine is actually the way was bound.

 

[rjpb]

Kid's Liberation Coloring Book is a magazine sized squarebound published in 1971 by Last Gasp and contains a Waldo strip by Kim Deitch, a Mr. Toad strip by Bill Griffith, Justin Green strip, and paper doll cutouts by Trina, as well as additional coloring pages and strips by others - all of it child friendly. Another curiosity from the early days of underground comics.

 

[rjpb]

Here is an unslabbed Air Pirates #1 - not as nice as comicwiz's, but a clearer scan.

 

[rjpb]

Air Pirates #2

 

[rjpb]

Continuing in the Disney parody vein - from the most unrepentant of the Air Pirates Dan O'Neill's Comics & Stories V.1 #1. If you look at the 3 covers in order they tell a little story.