Stoned Age comix appreciation thread

[Fandango]

Useful links Justin, thanks. Ref submitting my high grade UG's, I think I'm going to hold off until I’m completely satisfied that the treatment of these books has been standardised by at least one of the two major grading cos.

[rjpb]

justin2003 is correct - according to the Kennedy guide - my copy would be a second edition - no orange spot at the top of the wall. ugcomix.info indicates theat Jay Kennedy now believes that both "grey tire" editions would be first editions. At one point this might have been a largely academic debate, but as comicpriceguide.com lists a seventeen fold difference in value between the two it will be of great interest to many collectors what the NewHippyComix guide has to say on the subject - I guess this is a good illustration of why Overstreet steers clear of undergrounds. Of course Overstreet still refuses to aknowledge that there were three printings of Superman #1 in 1939 and that it is possible to tell when a copy is not a first printing.

 

 

On a related topic - still no way to tell the first 7 printings of Yellow Dog 13/14 apart?

[drbenway25]

comicwiz, I'd like to post another example of a restored comic that came from Apex Novelties. I bought this from the Apex catalogue. You may ask why I slabbed a not very valuable comic? Well, it's because Williams is my favorite UG artist and I wanted a NM first print slabbed. I ended up spending $25 bucks to make a not very valuable comic less valuable.

 

Label sez "Restoration includes: very small amount of color touch on cover." Even with this tip I cannot find it. (Image altered by me to keep it PG.)

 

[comicwiz]

comicwiz, I'd like to post another example of a restored comic that came from Apex Novelties. I bought this from the Apex catalogue. You may ask why I slabbed a not very valuable comic? Well, it's because Williams is my favorite UG artist and I wanted a NM first print slabbed. I ended up spending $25 bucks to make a not very valuable comic less valuable.

 

Label sez "Restoration includes: very small amount of color touch on cover." Even with this tip I cannot find it. (Image altered by me to keep it PG.)

 

 

drbenway25

 

First off, welcome to the boards and thanks for sharing in this tribute thread

 

Its disconcerting to hear that this problem has occured more than once already (or at least that this has happened twice that I've heard about). Specifically because they are coming from a backstock which I have been recommending for several years to underground collectors. Before taking an alarmist stance, I'd like get the lowdown from Don and ask him about these two occurences (yours and EggsAckley). For the most part, one of the main reasons why I switched my focus to collecting undergrounds was because they tend to be removed from the pitfalls found with mainstream books -- namely the tendency for sellers to pass off restored books as unrestored.

 

And I don't mean to sound like an opportunist, but if you are entertaining the idea of dumping that copy, I'd be willing to take it off your hands.

[rjpb]

Great book - Robert Williams at his best - it's a shame he doesn't do comic books anymore - I prefer his pen and ink strips to his paintings - cool as they are. Underground or overground Williams' draftsmanship puts most other comic artists to shame.

 

Nice books in the link to your collection by the way!

[comicwiz]

Nice books in the link to your collection by the way!

 

For sure! I think I recognize a few of those books -- did you pick up the Zap 1 (first) and Snatch 2 (first) from Heritage, or were you the consignee? The Funny Aminals is beautiful -- did that come from the Apex Catalogue? Great stuff!

[drbenway25]

comicwiz - You wanted to know where I got some of the books from my web site:

http://comixman.spymac.net/comics/underground/index.html

 

Heritage - I wasn't the consignee - These books are still in my hands

Zap 1 1st, Snatch 2 1st, Funny Aminals, The Peoples Comics, Projunior 1, Skull 1 Note - last 3 are "File Copies" so I must of gotten them from Heritage.

 

Apex Catalogue - Zap 1 2nd, Snatch 2 4th, Snatch 3, Jiz

 

Ebay - Zap 0 1st, Vaughn Bode - Cheech Wizard and The Machines, Mr Natural 1 1st

 

Except for Zap 1 1st, Snatch 2, 1st and Funny Aminals, and the Vaughn Bode pieces, which are still raw, I personally had these books slabbed.

[comicwiz]

comicwiz - You wanted to know where I got some of the books from my web site:

http://comixman.spymac.net/comics/underground/index.html

 

Heritage - I wasn't the consignee - These books are still in my hands

Zap 1 1st, Snatch 2 1st, Funny Aminals, The Peoples Comics, Projunior 1, Skull 1 Note - last 3 are "File Copies" so I must of gotten them from Heritage.

 

Apex Catalogue - Zap 1 2nd, Snatch 2 4th, Snatch 3, Jiz

 

Ebay - Zap 0 1st, Vaughn Bode - Cheech Wizard and The Machines, Mr Natural 1 1st

 

Except for Zap 1 1st, Snatch 2, 1st and Funny Aminals, and the Vaughn Bode pieces, which are still raw, I personally had these books slabbed.

 

I was not 100% certain about the Zap 1 as I've seen a few in that grade range floating around on eBay and Heritage, but that copy of Snatch 2 was something I really wanted to get in on -- unfortunately I was out of the country when it went up for auction with limited access to the web. That certainly is a killer copy!

[jim1968]

Sorry to hear of the problem with the book. I can say this though Don Donahue has NEVER touched up any comic. I'm at his house several times a month and he barely has a pen in the house, let alone anything to "touch up" stuff.

The book could have been touched up at the printers, but I doubt it.

Have a groovy day everyone!

Jim Pitts

Underground Comix Consultant

Heritage Comics Auctions

[comicwiz]

The book could have been touched up at the printers, but I doubt it.

 

I'm leaning toward that theory myself Jim.

 

Isn't there a well known modern issue that is known to have been coloured touched at the printers? I don't want to guess as to who the company was, but I know that this book has repeatedly returned back from CGC with a purple label and the theory was confirmed by someone on these boards in recent years (possibly even CGC) that the books were CT'd at the printers.

[EggsAckley]

I have another copy of Freak Brothers #1 similar to the graded one I posted before that had a letter inside from Bob Sidebottom dated 2/18/71 welcoming the owner to the Comix Club. He claims the issue was "just off the press." Unless the second print was also issued in 2/71, I believe this confirms that this is the first print.

[EggsAckley]

Correction: Actually the one posted is the one that had the note and business card inside from Bob Sidebottom. I purchased it in Orlando in 2004 and walked it right over to Mark Haspel of CGC, showed him the letter & submitted it for slabbing.

[drbenway25]

I'm leaning toward that theory myself Jim.

 

Isn't there a well known modern issue that is known to have been coloured touched at the printers? I don't want to guess as to who the company was, but I know that this book has repeatedly returned back from CGC with a purple label and the theory was confirmed by someone on these boards in recent years (possibly even CGC) that the books were CT'd at the printers.

 

Does anyone know of a "false positive" ( calling some restoration there when it isn't ) error by the CGC? I'm not a grading expert and certainly not an expert at detectiong restoration. But even with the foreknowledge that there's color touch I can't find it. I've gone over it with a magnifying glass and it looks flawless. Maybe someone can educate me as to what to look for. I'm tempted to crack it out of it's shell and resubmit it.

[rjpb]

I have another copy of Freak Brothers #1 similar to the graded one I posted before that had a letter inside from Bob Sidebottom dated 2/18/71 welcoming the owner to the Comix Club. He claims the issue was "just off the press." Unless the second print was also issued in 2/71, I believe this confirms that this is the first print.

 

Who was Bob Sidebottom and what was the Comix Club? That sounds like a totally cool artifact.

[oldmilwaukee6er]

Sorry to hear of the problem with the book. I can say this though Don Donahue has NEVER touched up any comic. I'm at his house several times a month and he barely has a pen in the house, let alone anything to "touch up" stuff.

The book could have been touched up at the printers, but I doubt it.

Have a groovy day everyone!

Jim Pitts

Underground Comix Consultant

Heritage Comics Auctions

 

Hey Jim- would Heritage sell PGX slabbed underground comix?? or would they (as have been speculated on various boards) pay to have them re-slabbed w/ CGC? Curious, j2003

[jim1968]

Well lets see how many of the above questions I can answer.

I believe that, through several moves, Last Gasp has "touched up" merch before they shipped it. Ya gotta keep in mind this was the late 1970's and early 1980's, I doubt they thought it was wrong in any way.

The Print Mint also touched up stuff. Sometimes Don Schenkner would be at the printing plant changing things around and would ding a stack of books, they'd just get out pens and touch them up to sell. This is also how the intentional blue cover Zap #0 came about.

Bob Sidebottom was the owner of the "Comic Collector Shop" in San Jose, he was also the publisher of California Comics. He ran one of the first underground comix clubs in the Bay Area, he also ran an EC club as well.

As far as Heritage's stance on PGX books I don't know. I'm certain if they grade is high enough we'd just leave it alone. I'll have to check with the bosses and see what the official stance is.

That's what I know for now!

Have a groovy afternoon everyone, I'm off to the dog park.

Jim Pitts

[rjpb]

Jim - your knowledge and willingness to share it is much appreciated.

[jim1968]

I just wish that I'd found this site sooner, I've only been out here for a few months.

Also, in defense of Don S (print mint), you need to remember that he was just a guy running a head shop in the late 60's. Then he started printing posters, hence the name "The Print Mint". The primary thing they were doing was printing up stuff for head shops around the country, by that I mean SF, NY, Chi, Det, StL, and Texas. They also had stores in SF and Berkeley.

When Ug's took off in late 1969 they approached Crumb and took over publishing Zap, Snatch, Jiz, etc.

To him if he could make a stack of stuff look "better to sell" then it was worth a little time with a marker.

[drbenway25]

Hey, Show me your pre Zap 1 undergrounds and I'll show you mine.

 

Lenny of Laredo - by Joel Beck. Copyright 1965, although this is the 3rd printing. Print Mint 1966

 

 

I wanna learn more about the early daze of the Stoned Age !

[oldmilwaukee6er]

I wanna learn more about the early daze of the Stoned Age !

 

Check out "Rebel Visions: The Underground Comix Revolution 1963-1975" by Patrick Rosenkranz ... it traces the UG artists back to 1963. Sometimes I see a new copy pop on eBay for less than retail.