November 2015 Heritage Signature Auction Thread 1 1

[batman_fan]

I'll help catch people up on the discussion...

 

1. Some people like some art/pieces more than other pieces; while other people feel the other way about things.

 

2. Prices can be high but don't necessarily signify the 'quality' of the piece but are a function of the bidders involved and their feelings towards the piece. Like an 1980's San Fran Bath House...it just takes two guys with a passion and crazy things can happen but that does not mean everyone agrees.

 

you are welcome

 

 

Talk about high quality Cliff Notes

[Bronty]

 

You saved me a bunch of typing. I kept going back and looking at the ASM 98 cover and was wondering if everyone had a typo.

 

GL 76 by a light year

 

If a classic, engaging cover of Spidey vs. the Green Goblin fills you with so much indifference that you have to check if it's a typo, that quite obviously speaks volumes about your inherent personal preference and bias more than it does about anything else. And, you also referenced a post that talked copiously about things that we are quite specifically trying to exclude from the conversation by just taking the covers at pure face value.

 

The Spidey cover is a 10/10 on the nad-pumping and giving your inner 12-year old a warm fuzzy feeling scale. Like Nelson said - it's a GREAT comic book cover that does what it's supposed to. No discussion of technical artistic merit, historical relevance, influence, market value, or which underlying comic or piece of art is more valuable is required. Or desired.

 

 

 

Your bias must be showing. Only a die hard Spidey fan would see 98 as all that special against the amount of classic covers in the first 100 issues of the series. Context removed, solely on the art.

 

Well. As a fellow comic fan who was never super wild about spidey past the ditko run (liked but only in the same vague way I like daredevil or Thor), Id say it's definitely better than most, context or no, from 39-100. In the top 10? Probably not, but maybe. Hovering around that mark somewhere, for me

[Mephisto]

 

 

 

Yes, what the layman thinks is irrelevant here. The layman may find a Thomas Kinkade more appealing than a Picasso...so what?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe you mean to say lame-man.

 

 

As for auctions like this, there's still fun to be had outside of the cutthroat top end madness.

 

I like putting a bunch of bids on the smaller second day pieces that I have some nostalgia for or remember from Childhood...... this is one....I remember the 8-year old me reading this, and being enthralled with those old Universal Monster flicks...waiting for them to come on the old "Creature Features" shows, and later running on Son of Svengoolie's UHF Horror Host TV show in Chicago. Ahhh Nostalgia...it doesn't always cost as much as vacation condo.

 

 

I love Bob Larkin. I don't see enough of his Marvel work. His Magneto painting I bought this year may be my favorite purchase of 2015.

[delekkerste]

Preferring the GL76 cover or the Spidey 98 cover is incredibly subjective, despite Gene's protests to the contrary, and I have no desire to convince anyone to see the light. Gene has made the pitch on what he sees as self evident truths, and I would argue that his own "inherent personal preference and bias" guides his judgement just as much as it does mine, whether he sees it that way or not. And that's ok with me. Gene is a friend and I always respect his opinion even when he has his hidden blinders on or when he's wrong. Like in this case.

 

If it's as subjective as you say, how can I be wrong.

 

 

Your bias must be showing. Only a die hard Spidey fan would see 98 as all that special against the amount of classic covers in the first 100 issues of the series. Context removed, solely on the art

 

I'm not saying that I'm not biased towards Spidey here. But, I'm (clearly) not being biased by market value here (since the GL cover is vastly more $$$ valuable). Or historical relevance or import (where the GL wins again, though many here are giving ASM #98 terribly short shrift in that dept). Or by the fact that Adams overall is the vastly superior artist (which I agree with). Can everyone else here say otherwise? Especially since they keep referencing such things to justify their stance?

 

Even from your Spidey cover picks your comic book collector bias is showing. ASM #33 is a classic issue - and the cover stands out if you know what it represents vis-a-vis the interior story. But, on its own...not so much. #40 is a good cover, but, on a purely standalone basis, is it really more interesting than the Goblin on his glider dragging a tied up and unmasked Peter Parker as in #39? Or the Goblin rendering Spidey powerless as he digs his fingernails into the concrete side of a building clinging for dear life as in #98? Sorry, but no. Now, if you want to argue that #39 and #40 are more important books, or that you'd rather have the #40 because Spidey is in full costume vs. the #39, I get that. But the #40 is simply not as inherently interesting as the #39 or the #98. Spidey's won. It's over. He's not in mortal peril like in the others - it doesn't have the tension or excitement as the other two.

 

If people prefer the GL #76, for whatever reason, that's fine. Just stop slagging off the #98 like it's some filler issue done by a third-rate artist. It's not. It's a fantastically well done comic book cover. Interesting angles. You can feel the gravity of both the situation and of Spidey being dragged to his doom. The #40 cover is positively static by comparison. Both the #39 and #98 are hugely superior in terms of the layout and composition - interesting angles on the cityscapes, and that gorgeous triangle composition of the two principal characters on the #39 cover really catches the eye. But, most importantly, the reader's interest and attention is grabbed as they can instantly recognize and appreciate what is going on story-wise. Who wouldn't want to read any of these books if they saw the cover?

 

And the #98 is no slouch in the significance department, either. There are only a handful of early Goblin covers and storylines. And, this was the conclusion to the non-code drug issue storyline, which was part of Marvel transitioning away from the Silver Age and becoming more relevant as well. It's also just a fantastically well done issue too - you got the drug story conclusion, the climax of one of the great Green Goblin stories, and the return of Gwen Stacy into Peter's life to boot, all helping setting up what I think is the best Spidey storyline ever in #121-122.

 

So, yeah - biased towards Spidey? Guilty as charged. But, I think there is ample ammunition to argue why ASM #98 is the more interesting and evocative cover divorced from any talk of market value or relevance (though again, it's not a slouch in either department, and represents a record price for a Kane cover). We can agree to disagree on which one we prefer. But in no way is it a clear-cut win for the GL #76 in any way, shape or form and that you have to be a Spidey fanatic to appreciate the ASM #98. You just have to have two eyes, a 3rd grade reading comprehension and love comics. WHY DO YOU HATE COMICS SO MUCH, GUYS?

[comix4fun]

 

 

 

Yes, what the layman thinks is irrelevant here. The layman may find a Thomas Kinkade more appealing than a Picasso...so what?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe you mean to say lame-man.

 

 

As for auctions like this, there's still fun to be had outside of the cutthroat top end madness.

 

I like putting a bunch of bids on the smaller second day pieces that I have some nostalgia for or remember from Childhood...... this is one....I remember the 8-year old me reading this, and being enthralled with those old Universal Monster flicks...waiting for them to come on the old "Creature Features" shows, and later running on Son of Svengoolie's UHF Horror Host TV show in Chicago. Ahhh Nostalgia...it doesn't always cost as much as vacation condo.

 

 

I love Bob Larkin. I don't see enough of his Marvel work. His Magneto painting I bought this year may be my favorite purchase of 2015.

 

 

Same here...I am always on the lookout for Planet of the Apes and his other Marvel magazine covers.

[Bronty]

I'll help catch people up on the discussion...

 

1. Some people like some art/pieces more than other pieces; while other people feel the other way about things.

 

2. Prices can be high but don't necessarily signify the 'quality' of the piece but are a function of the bidders involved and their feelings towards the piece. Like an 1980's San Fran Bath House...it just takes two guys with a passion and crazy things can happen but that does not mean everyone agrees.

 

you are welcome

 

 

GOLD

[Nexus]

I saw the ASM #98 cover in person. It's fantastic, and having seen it in person, I appreciate it more than I did before. (Although, again, I do prefer GL #76 over ASM #98 just on a pure artistic basis.) IMO, Gil Kane is underrated. He really hit his stride in the late '60s with own HIS NAME IS...SAVAGE!, and this cover comes from right around that period. But I could get any one of the guys I rep to execute a new Spidey vs. Green Goblin commission that would, side-by-side, be more visually appealing than the ASM #98. And it would be a meaningless exercise because of all the factors that rank ahead of simple eye appeal. I'd still want the ASM #98...for the same reasons I'd want GL #76 over ASM #98.

 

And yes, this is all entirely subjective. I never ranked ASM #98 that highly amongst ASM covers, so was curious what other people think. I Googled "Best Spider-Man covers" and this link was first to pop up:

 

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2012/03/11/50-greatest-spider-man-covers-of-all-time-master-list/

 

From Comic Book Resources, a major comics news site. This list was compiled from a poll conducted across their substantial readership. And as you can see, #98 doesn't even place in the top 50! Now, I would personally stick #98 in there somewhere, and also disagree with many of the picks, but that's neither here nor there...this was a reality check.

 

The next two links:

 

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/spider-mans-best-covers/1100-148735/

 

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2012/07/the-15-best-amazing-spider-man-covers-of-all-time/16

 

No #98 on either list.

 

Rightly or wrongly, ASM #98 doesn't even rank with Spidey fans as a great ASM cover, let alone a great cover from the Bronze Age.

 

On a separate note, congrats as always to the winners! Some beautiful stuff in this thread.

 

[Bronty]

Speaking of kinkade...

 

I had someone in the office tell me about this amazing artist and wonderful work that was quite expensive and when I finally got the name out of them it was tom kinkade

[delekkerste]

I saw the ASM #98 cover in person. It's fantastic, and having seen it in person, I appreciate it more than I did before. (Although, again, I do prefer GL #76 over ASM #98 just on a pure artistic basis.) IMO, Gil Kane is underrated. He really hit his stride in the late '60s with own HIS NAME IS...SAVAGE!, and this cover comes from right around that period. But I could get any one of the guys I rep to execute a new Spidey vs. Green Goblin commission that would, side-by-side, be more visually appealing than the ASM #98. And it would be a meaningless exercise because of all the factors that rank ahead of simple eye appeal. I'd still want the ASM #98...for the same reasons I'd want GL #76 over ASM #98.

 

And yes, this is all entirely subjective. I never ranked ASM #98 that highly amongst ASM covers, so was curious what other people think. I Googled "Best Spider-Man covers" and this link was first to pop up:

 

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2012/03/11/50-greatest-spider-man-covers-of-all-time-master-list/

 

From Comic Book Resources, a major comics news site. This list was compiled from a poll conducted across their substantial readership. And as you can see, #98 doesn't even place in the top 50! Now, I would personally stick #98 in there somewhere, and also disagree with many of the picks, but that's neither here nor there...this was a reality check.

 

The next two links:

 

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/spider-mans-best-covers/1100-148735/

 

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2012/07/the-15-best-amazing-spider-man-covers-of-all-time/16

 

No #98 on either list.

 

Rightly or wrongly, ASM #98 doesn't even rank with Spidey fans as a great ASM cover, let alone a great cover from the Bronze Age.

 

On a separate note, congrats as always to the winners! Some beautiful stuff in this thread.

 

 

Yes, ASM #229, #578, #641 and #655 are all much better covers than ASM #98! And PPSS #101 is a top ten cover. Not even worth pointing out. And these geniuses who run the websites wouldn't know the first thing about how to set up a statistically meaningful and valid poll. Tell me, what kind of poll construction methodology do you think they used for it to even be possible to obtain some of these bizarre results? Sorry, it doesn't even begin to make sense once you actually think about what they must have done.

 

As if you had the OA to ASM #98 and ASM #229 side by side that anyone is going to pick the latter. :doh: Doesn't even begin to pass the plausibility test. These are either highly flawed surveys and/or significant portions are straight-up made-up by the writing/editorial staff of these websites.

[Bronty]

ASM 229 is pretty embarassing.

[Bronty]

All of this just underscores how we should all stop the 'appeal to the layman' arguments though. I mean WTF cares what they think if they aren't knowledgeable or in the market or both.

[delekkerste]

All of this just underscores how we should all stop the 'appeal to the layman' arguments though. I mean WTF cares what they think if they aren't knowledgeable or in the market or both.

 

I don't think this reflects the opinion of the layman, though. I think this is just straight-up made up by lazy writers and editors looking to get website hits. If you actually just listed the obvious choices for best Spidey covers, including the #98, it wouldn't be very interesting for most, now, or generate much in the comment fields, now would it? You have to throw in a lot of new stuff, some random MTU and PPSS and Web of Spidey issues, some picks that no one would even consider, leave out a few obvious choices, etc.

 

Just a complete farce.

[comiconxion]

The GL 76 cover and ASM 98 cover were both in my opinion and as such I did not bid on them.

 

I did however win this. And its awesome...

 

 

Did anyone else win any art other than the GL76 and ASM 98?

 

That is a killer cover.

 

I like this cover as well - I figured out why... it seems to be an homage to Zeck's Cap #286 cover with the character that Zeck made popular - the Punisher. Wonder if that's what Sienkiewicz had in mind or it just turned out that way.

[Terry Doyle]

 

I hope the debate continues because it's fun. And all you guys that complain that this forum only focuses on the financial side of OA should speak up and opine. Your day has come!

 

Peace out

Scott

 

 

Speak up about one cover or the other cover? It is a bit limiting. I don't like either one.

 

Both have artistic merit but, as Lucky B says, speaking up about one cover over another, is a bit limiting (especially if they fall outside your sphere of interest).

 

Great debate if you're passionate about either (or both) covers. I'm not.

[Eelco]

ASM 229 is pretty embarassing.

 

Still a classic story. And cool cover.

[delekkerste]

I like this cover as well - I figured out why... it seems to be an homage to Zeck's Cap #286 cover with the character that Zeck made popular - the Punisher. Wonder if that's what Sienkiewicz had in mind or it just turned out that way.

 

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he had in mind - it's the first thing that popped into my head even when I first saw the cover back in 2001 or whenever it came out.

[Bronty]

All of this just underscores how we should all stop the 'appeal to the layman' arguments though. I mean WTF cares what they think if they aren't knowledgeable or in the market or both.

 

I don't think this reflects the opinion of the layman, though.

 

Well the true layman wouldn't even be familiar with 10 spiderman covers. Would they even be familiar with 1? So whether its the pure layman, or the layman--editor of TMZ, the lists/opinions thereof are farcical as you say.

[g-man]

Of the ASM covers from 1-100...I would prefer the following over the 98 and 39/40....

 

In no particular order....

 

#12,17,69,75,78,86,90 and annual 1

[Eelco]

There is not much talk ( if any) about the Kirby Journey into Mystery cover.

 

It is a very bold cover image, large art and Wood inking. I think an impressive piece.

Still 155k is a lot of cash.

And the Thor image is small. ( Would a larger Thor image then go for 200-250K )

Is this the result of "image is king( even though the main image is not Thor)" combined with the "Kirby/Wood" combination?

Just wondering ....

 

 

 

 

 

[Nexus]

Speaking of kinkade...

 

I had someone in the office tell me about this amazing artist and wonderful work that was quite expensive and when I finally got the name out of them it was tom kinkade

 

 

So show him GL #76 and ASM #98 and tell us which one he likes better. Or don't BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER.