November 2015 Heritage Signature Auction Thread 1 1

[batman_fan]

The one page I really wanted was the Thing splash by Perez. I was doing the live auction and did a cut bid at the end, got out bid and by the time my phone was ready for me to bid again, auction closed I figure whoever won it would have gone higher than I was willing to spend (at least that is what I tell myself). The other pages I was watching was the panel from Spiderman 109 with Dr Strange. I really liked it but too high for me. The MoltenMan panel was also interesting. I sold at a previous HA auction for just over 10K but this time went for more. I was hoping it would go for less than 10k but someone else wanted it more.

 

 

Hi Greg! I ended up winning the FF #178 splash. It is (will be) the most I have ever spent on a single piece of art. I was willing to go up to around $8K-$9K but was getting close to tapping out when the pesky cut bids stopped and I won. I really love Dave Hunt's inking on that issue and am lucky to have three other pages from that book. Sorry! Best regards, Lee

 

Hey Lee, glad it went to a boardee The 8k-9k was mine as well although I probably would have only thrown in one more bid. It is a great page !. If you frame it, you HAVE to post a picture of it on the wall

[tth2]

Mike and Gene, you know I love you both but for what it's worth (and i'm a huge Spidey guy)

 

the GL #76 is simply incredible to me. That run was all about "relevance" and challenging

 

the socio-economic/political norms of the day usually by way of angry Ollie slapping

 

around golden boy Hal. This dynamic runs through every single issue of that run. So

 

the cover with GA shooting the Arrow through GL's Lantern is quite simply the perfect

 

representation of that symbolically (and in this way an improvement over the original

 

unpublished version). Such a thoughtful composition and as it's purely symbolic and never

 

actually happens in the issue, it's one of the few pieces that sways towards contemporary

 

art as opposed to the garden-variety comic cover with a dramatic action scene inspired by one of the interior pages.

 

Just thought i'd chime in,

 

Ken

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=19201

[tth2]

anybody buy anything this round?

Happy to add these two to the collection

Congrats! I love the Gold Key painted covers!

[tth2]

None of this is much about image quality anyways?

 

Not sure what you are talking about - my entire original point was that the Spidey #98 cover would look nicer on the wall next to the GL #76. My whole point was solely about how the image looks and how people relate to it. With the GL #76, you have to write an essay to explain why it's the better, more important, more valuable cover. The Spidey cover speaks for itself - "look at me, I'm awesome."

 

That's actually not what I wrote. I think (with a new modified logo especially), the GL 76 cover looks better than the Spidey 98. Period. Better drawing. Better inking. Better layout. Bigger impact. Not even close. GIl Kane=Neal Adams? Please.

 

And oh yeah, it has some serious history and distinction to sweeten it's appeal, but like all things this is just my

 

Scott

 

Yeah, some artists are just inherently more aesthetically pleasing, which is why they become fan favorites.

 

No one knew who Carl Barks was for ages, but an entire generation of readers knew that they liked the art by "the good Duck artist". He stood out.

 

Adams stood out from pretty much the moment he put pencil to paper. Kane in contrast is an acquired taste and his better work was actually for DC back in the late 50s/early 60s (ironically, on Green Lantern).

 

Dave Cockrum was a good artist, but fans just instinctively preferred John Byrne when he took over X-Men. It was Byrne becoming the New X-Men artist that really catapaulted them among the elite of the superheroes.

 

Put Adams up against Kane, and Adams will win with the layman every time.

[Eelco]

ASM 98 and Green Lantern 76

 

 

I am a fan of visually appealing comic art.

So Adams has more appeal to me than Kane.

But wow look at this ASM 98 cover. To me this is about the best execution of layout and suspense in an ASM cover.

The tilted layout, the falling Spidey and cornering menacing Green Goblin are the best.

I like this more than ASM 97 and that has a larger image and is Romita.

Adding that this is all from the classic run(before Andru took over, no disrepect to him, he is my nostalgic spidey artist) with a classic villain the Green Goblin.

 

Just that this is Kane stopped the price at this level I think.

 

Green Lantern for me that is just historic comic importance and then anything can happen happen.

And yeah sorry I am also in the camp that feel the cover art image itself has not that much visual appeal.

 

Eelco

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2015 by Eelco

[MyNameIsLegion]

GL VERSUS SPIDEY COVER:

 

 

I'm a huge Adams fan as an artist, but never collected or read DC comics very much as a kid, I was a complete Marvel Zombie but not a SPIDEY collector, and both these covers pre-date my buying comics of the rack. So I think I'm fairly objective and impartial, as much as anyone can be and still be considered an informed collectors opinion and not a laymen.

 

That's said, GL 76 wins, without a question. I can picture that cover in my minds eye, it's instantly recognizable, it's a key iconic book, and many an homage has been done to it. In fact, Adams himself is riffing it again, along with a couple dozen others that will be featured in Feb DC books with different characters substituted in from classic Adams covers.

 

I can vaguely recall the Spidey 98 cover, but if you were to flash a bunch of Spidey covers randomly in front of me with the issue numbers hidden, I would not be able to blurt out the issue number. GL 76? No hesitation. It's not Spidey 14, it's 98 - well executed, interesting footnote in comic history, certainly the single most popular Marvel character of all time, certainly more so than Green Lantern, but this particular issue of GL beats this particular issue of Spidey. Now, if you wanted to put it up against Spidey 14, then GL is the underdog perhaps.

 

S.

 

P.S: everyone knows that X-Men #56 is Adam's best cover ever, way better than GL or Spidey, but that's just me.

Edited November 22, 2015 by MYNAMEISLEGION

[delekkerste]

Adams stood out from pretty much the moment he put pencil to paper. Kane in contrast is an acquired taste and his better work was actually for DC back in the late 50s/early 60s (ironically, on Green Lantern).

 

Dave Cockrum was a good artist, but fans just instinctively preferred John Byrne when he took over X-Men. It was Byrne becoming the New X-Men artist that really catapaulted them among the elite of the superheroes.

 

Put Adams up against Kane, and Adams will win with the layman every time.

 

Kane may be an acquired taste, but none of that is required to appreciate ASM #98. There are many Kane covers that do nothing for me and have blocky anatomy, weird up-the-nose angles, etc. This cover has none of those - it's sublime. Perhaps it's helped by Giacoia's inking job. Or maybe Kane was just inspired when he drew it. But, in any case, it doesn't really matter - it looks great.

 

Out of the two, it's the GL #76 cover that is the one that requires acquired taste - you really have to have read those issues, studied comic book history and become immersed in comic culture for a long time to truly appreciate it. People can say that Adams is the superior artist and such, but, to some extent, that's largely a function of what you appreciate about his realistic style that shows off detail and dynamic motion. I mean, on a technical basis, isn't he also superior to Romita, Buscema, Ditko, even Kirby as well? Why just pick on Kane? The reality is that ASM #98 is more exciting, better laid out and better drawn than most Romita covers from that era. And, yet, I bet there are Romita covers that people here would prefer to this Adams cover even if they also suffer from the exact same "technical deficiencies" as the Kane cover. Because comic art is not about technical skill, as you yourself have so eloquently argued on numerous occasions. It's as much about what pumped your nads as a 12-year old as it is about technical ability.

 

Outside of the die-hard OA/comic collector class, I believe the Spidey cover is going to be the more visually appealing to more people. Even among the OA elitists, the cover has its adherents here. As I said - rational people can agree to disagree on which cover they prefer. But, statements like "it's not even close" or "Adams will win with the layman every time" I think are sweeping generalizations that do not hold up in this case. I also agree that Byrne X-Men > Cockrum X-Men, but there are several Cockrum covers that are better and more visually appealing than Byrne's. Again, that's not separating out Adams' overall appeal, value, importance and legacy from the equation. From the very start I have ignored all that and just focused on which cover pumps my nads more. For me and many others, it's going to be the Spidey cover.

 

GL #76 may stir the mind because of its realistic depiction and what it represents in terms of history and relevance. But, ASM #98 stirs the soul of your inner kid - this is what comics are all about, even if some of you elitists would like it all to be about Solomonic discussions about DC taking on socioeconomic issues in the '70s or Neal Adams and Denny O'Neil elevating story and art out of the Silver Age by introducing more dynamism, realism and relevance.

[Lucky Baru]

Lastly, if GL #76's significance is only important to die-hard fans, and is lost on the general public...then how is it that ASM #98 wins by a landslide because it's from the "right time period" with an "engaging premise/story/dialogue"? How does the general public know all about ASM #98's merits, but none of GL #76's?

 

They don't, and that's my point. Look at the ASM #98 cover and it's self-explanatory. Obviously from the style and trade dressing it's old/early/classic. Two very recognizable characters put into an interesting situation that ropes you right in. You don't know how it happened or how it gets resolved, but you know there's an interesting story going on where you know a lot of the details just from looking at the cover.

 

The GL #76 cover sets up an interesting premise, but no one looking at it would know anything about the issue's historical relevance or significance that arguably accounts for the bulk of its appeal.

 

 

Even if one finds the ASM #98 a better drawn cover than GL #76...so what? That has practically nothing to do with anything in terms of their perceived value to the people who matter in this case (i.e. the bidders!). They're the ones who will decide what's important.

 

Which is the more visually appealing cover is the entire point. I haven't brought valuations or bidding or anything else into the discussion at all. And, from that perspective, I do think it's relevant what people outside of our little microcosm of die-hard fanboys think/would think. Or, at least people who are able to separate the historical relevance, valuation, and artistic legacy of Neal Adams outside of the simple discussion of which cover is more visually appealing.

 

And, like I said - we can agree to disagree which is the more visual appealing. What I do not agree with is that the GL #76 is clearly superior and that it's "not even close". Let's not judge comic art on the J. Evans Pritchard scale for judging poetry (see "Dead Poets Society"): "Question one rates the cover's perfection, question two rates its importance. And once these questions have been answered, determining a cover's greatness becomes a relatively simple matter by plotting the perfection on the Y axis and the importance on the X axis and taking the area as how great the cover is..."

 

As Robin Williams said in the film: "Excrement"! The ASM #98 cover is incredibly exciting, engaging, evocative and FUN. I would argue moreso than the GL #76. But, even if you disagree, there's no way that it's not at least a real debate. And that is all that I've been trying to tell you art snobs.

 

That's all fine and well (although, ironically, I find your championing of ASM #98 to be similar to the J. Evans Pritchard scale! ), but why is it even a debate? You can find ASM #98 more visually appealing than GL #76, I can find WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #1 more visually appealing than ASM #98, and the general public can find black velvet paintings more visually appealing than all of the above. None of that changes the fact that, for its own reasons, whether you agree or not, the hobby has deemed GL #76 to be the more important cover. The end.

 

+1

 

When you break it down Barney style your view-point is set in reality, and your last point is the ONLY one that really matters.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Lucky Baru

[Twanj]

None of that changes the fact that, for its own reasons, whether you agree or not, the hobby has deemed GL #76 to be the more important cover. The end.

 

None of that changes the fact that, for its own reasons, whether you agree or not, two guys with deep pockets have deemed GL #76 to be the more important cover to them. The end.

 

there, fixed that for you. yeh, it's all subjective.

[delekkerste]

Hi Greg! I ended up winning the FF #178 splash. It is (will be) the most I have ever spent on a single piece of art. I was willing to go up to around $8K-$9K but was getting close to tapping out when the pesky cut bids stopped and I won. I really love Dave Hunt's inking on that issue and am lucky to have three other pages from that book. Sorry! Best regards, Lee

 

Congrats, Lee! That's a killer splash.

[ciorac]

GL VERSUS SPIDEY COVER:

 

 

I'm a huge Adams fan as an artist, but never collected or read DC comics very much as a kid, I was a complete Marvel Zombie but not a SPIDEY collector, and both these covers pre-date my buying comics of the rack. So I think I'm fairly objective and impartial, as much as anyone can be and still be considered an informed collectors opinion and not a laymen.

 

That's said, GL 76 wins, without a question. I can picture that cover in my minds eye, it's instantly recognizable, it's a key iconic book, and many an homage has been done to it. In fact, Adams himself is riffing it again, along with a couple dozen others that will be featured in Feb DC books with different characters substituted in from classic Adams covers.

 

I can vaguely recall the Spidey 98 cover, but if you were to flash a bunch of Spidey covers randomly in front of me with the issue numbers hidden, I would not be able to blurt out the issue number. GL 76? No hesitation. It's not Spidey 14, it's 98 - well executed, interesting footnote in comic history, certainly the single most popular Marvel character of all time, certainly more so than Green Lantern, but this particular issue of GL beats this particular issue of Spidey. Now, if you wanted to put it up against Spidey 14, then GL is the underdog perhaps.

 

S.

 

 

 

You saved me a bunch of typing. I kept going back and looking at the ASM 98 cover and was wondering if everyone had a typo.

 

GL 76 by a light year

[delekkerste]

 

You saved me a bunch of typing. I kept going back and looking at the ASM 98 cover and was wondering if everyone had a typo.

 

GL 76 by a light year

 

If a classic, engaging cover of Spidey vs. the Green Goblin fills you with so much indifference that you have to check if it's a typo, that quite obviously speaks volumes about your inherent personal preference and bias more than it does about anything else. And, you also referenced a post that talked copiously about things that we are quite specifically trying to exclude from the conversation by just taking the covers at pure face value.

 

The Spidey cover is a 10/10 on the nad-pumping and giving your inner 12-year old a warm fuzzy feeling scale. Like Nelson said - it's a GREAT comic book cover that does what it's supposed to. No discussion of technical artistic merit, historical relevance, influence, market value, or which underlying comic or piece of art is more valuable is required. Or desired.

[Carlo M]

I am not a fan of either Green Lantern or Spiderman, so there is no particular nostalgia angle for me on this comparison.

 

I would summarise as follows: without context, I like the ASM cover better: more complex layout, tilted angles, more drama, more understandable situation.

 

With context, I understand why the GL cover has more significance, but you really need to have the full picture to understand it fully, including the meta-textual message.

 

So if I were the curator of a museum, I would go for the GL cover.

 

For my home, if I were rich and could afford either, I would go for the ASM cover, for me it is just nicer to look at, that is all!

 

Carlo

 

[Doc Joe]

I'll help catch people up on the discussion...

 

1. Some people like some art/pieces more than other pieces; while other people feel the other way about things.

 

2. Prices can be high but don't necessarily signify the 'quality' of the piece but are a function of the bidders involved and their feelings towards the piece. Like an 1980's San Fran Bath House...it just takes two guys with a passion and crazy things can happen but that does not mean everyone agrees.

 

you are welcome

 

 

[Lee B.]

Hi Greg! I ended up winning the FF #178 splash. It is (will be) the most I have ever spent on a single piece of art. I was willing to go up to around $8K-$9K but was getting close to tapping out when the pesky cut bids stopped and I won. I really love Dave Hunt's inking on that issue and am lucky to have three other pages from that book. Sorry! Best regards, Lee

 

Congrats, Lee! That's a killer splash.

 

Thanks Gene! I'm very happy it worked out.

 

And yes Greg, I will get the splash framed, together with another pretty sweet interior page from the same issue. I'll share that will folks when it is up on the wall.

 

Cheers, Lee

[stinkininkin]

 

You saved me a bunch of typing. I kept going back and looking at the ASM 98 cover and was wondering if everyone had a typo.

 

GL 76 by a light year

 

If a classic, engaging cover of Spidey vs. the Green Goblin fills you with so much indifference that you have to check if it's a typo, that quite obviously speaks volumes about your inherent personal preference and bias more than it does about anything else. And, you also referenced a post that talked copiously about things that we are quite specifically trying to exclude from the conversation by just taking the covers at pure face value.

 

The Spidey cover is a 10/10 on the nad-pumping and giving your inner 12-year old a warm fuzzy feeling scale. Like Nelson said - it's a GREAT comic book cover that does what it's supposed to. No discussion of technical artistic merit, historical relevance, influence, market value, or which underlying comic or piece of art is more valuable is required. Or desired.

 

Heading out for the day, but I'll just wrap things up by restating what I've said all along. Preferring the GL76 cover or the Spidey 98 cover is incredibly subjective, despite Gene's protests to the contrary, and I have no desire to convince anyone to see the light. Gene has made the pitch on what he sees as self evident truths, and I would argue that his own "inherent personal preference and bias" guides his judgement just as much as it does mine, whether he sees it that way or not. And that's ok with me. Gene is a friend and I always respect his opinion even when he has his hidden blinders on or when he's wrong. Like in this case.

 

I hope the debate continues because it's fun. And all you guys that complain that this forum only focuses on the financial side of OA should speak up and opine. Your day has come!

 

Peace out

Scott

 

 

 

[ciorac]

 

You saved me a bunch of typing. I kept going back and looking at the ASM 98 cover and was wondering if everyone had a typo.

 

GL 76 by a light year

 

If a classic, engaging cover of Spidey vs. the Green Goblin fills you with so much indifference that you have to check if it's a typo, that quite obviously speaks volumes about your inherent personal preference and bias more than it does about anything else. And, you also referenced a post that talked copiously about things that we are quite specifically trying to exclude from the conversation by just taking the covers at pure face value.

 

The Spidey cover is a 10/10 on the nad-pumping and giving your inner 12-year old a warm fuzzy feeling scale. Like Nelson said - it's a GREAT comic book cover that does what it's supposed to. No discussion of technical artistic merit, historical relevance, influence, market value, or which underlying comic or piece of art is more valuable is required. Or desired.

 

 

no bias at all. There are a dozen, or more, covers in the first 100 issues of Spider-Man that I prefer over the 98. Truth be told, I've never really been a fan of the series. My brother collected it though, so I did see them all each month as he bought them. 98 never stood out to me, and is comparable to 97 by an large. If I had to choose a Goblin cover it would probably be 40, on purely artistic style and composition. For MY tastes, I hasten to add. If i add context, then I would, of course, prefer 14. If I could have any cover of the first 100, other than #1, it would probably be 100. Although 33, 50 and 55 are pretty "nad-pumping" as well

 

Your bias must be showing. Only a die hard Spidey fan would see 98 as all that special against the amount of classic covers in the first 100 issues of the series. Context removed, solely on the art.

[stinkininkin]

The GL 76 cover and ASM 98 cover were both in my opinion and as such I did not bid on them.

 

I did however win this. And its awesome...

 

 

Did anyone else win any art other than the GL76 and ASM 98?

 

That is a killer cover.

 

Here's something Gene and I agree on. This is an absolutely fantastic piece. I would be proud to have this in my collection because you can never have enough GREAT Sienkiwicze art, and this is GREAT!

 

Scott

 

[Lucky Baru]

 

You saved me a bunch of typing. I kept going back and looking at the ASM 98 cover and was wondering if everyone had a typo.

 

GL 76 by a light year

 

If a classic, engaging cover of Spidey vs. the Green Goblin fills you with so much indifference that you have to check if it's a typo, that quite obviously speaks volumes about your inherent personal preference and bias more than it does about anything else. And, you also referenced a post that talked copiously about things that we are quite specifically trying to exclude from the conversation by just taking the covers at pure face value.

 

The Spidey cover is a 10/10 on the nad-pumping and giving your inner 12-year old a warm fuzzy feeling scale. Like Nelson said - it's a GREAT comic book cover that does what it's supposed to. No discussion of technical artistic merit, historical relevance, influence, market value, or which underlying comic or piece of art is more valuable is required. Or desired.

 

Heading out for the day, but I'll just wrap things up by restating what I've said all along. Preferring the GL76 cover or the Spidey 98 cover is incredibly subjective, despite Gene's protests to the contrary, and I have no desire to convince anyone to see the light. Gene has made the pitch on what he sees as self evident truths, and I would argue that his own "inherent personal preference and bias" guides his judgement just as much as it does mine, whether he sees it that way or not. And that's ok with me. Gene is a friend and I always respect his opinion even when he has his hidden blinders on or when he's wrong. Like in this case.

 

I hope the debate continues because it's fun. And all you guys that complain that this forum only focuses on the financial side of OA should speak up and opine. Your day has come!

 

Peace out

Scott

 

 

 

Speak up about one cover or the other cover? It is a bit limiting. I don't like either one. However, if you are going to limit to the covers involved in the auction over the last 2 days then the one DocJoe won is the one out of the entire auction I'd want on my wall. That is a and is more in line with the artistry I'd want in a piece. It is a "10/10 on the nad-pumping and giving your inner 12-year old a warm fuzzy feeling scale".

 

Edited November 22, 2015 by Lucky Baru

[comix4fun]

 

 

 

Yes, what the layman thinks is irrelevant here. The layman may find a Thomas Kinkade more appealing than a Picasso...so what?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe you mean to say lame-man.

 

 

As for auctions like this, there's still fun to be had outside of the cutthroat top end madness.

 

I like putting a bunch of bids on the smaller second day pieces that I have some nostalgia for or remember from Childhood...... this is one....I remember the 8-year old me reading this, and being enthralled with those old Universal Monster flicks...waiting for them to come on the old "Creature Features" shows, and later running on Son of Svengoolie's UHF Horror Host TV show in Chicago. Ahhh Nostalgia...it doesn't always cost as much as vacation condo.