February 2016 Heritage Auction

[AnkurJ]

At the end of the day both actions are not right and can change the landscape of any collectible market. A collector offered to add me to a group who takes turns buying pages of a certain character in an attempt to keep prices low. I declined. While this may benefit the collector(s), the consignor (who may also be a collector) will be hurt.

You could say the reason shill bidding is happening in any narrow collectible market is partially due to collusion.

[drdroom]

Oh yeah? What if I say collusion is happening partially due to shilling?

 

[suspense39]

At the end of the day both actions are not right and can change the landscape of any collectible market. A collector offered to add me to a group who takes turns buying pages of a certain character in an attempt to keep prices low. I declined. While this may benefit the collector(s), the consignor (who may also be a collector) will be hurt.

You could say the reason shill bidding is happening in any narrow collectible market is partially due to collusion.

 

If a collector friend of yours tells you he really wants something (that you happen to like as well) in an auction and is going to go hard for it are you going to get into the action? I'm just curious

[aokartman]

I’ll say that pool bidding was always discouraged by the auctioneer when I attended auctions here in Vermont, but just by his cautionary scold you knew they were there. I don’t think the pool is quite as onerous as shilling your own auction. But it is still unsavory bidding behavior which distorts values. The loser is the consignor. Just my opinion, David S. Albright

[AnkurJ]

At the end of the day both actions are not right and can change the landscape of any collectible market. A collector offered to add me to a group who takes turns buying pages of a certain character in an attempt to keep prices low. I declined. While this may benefit the collector(s), the consignor (who may also be a collector) will be hurt.

You could say the reason shill bidding is happening in any narrow collectible market is partially due to collusion.

 

If a collector friend of yours tells you he really wants something (that you happen to like as well) in an auction and is going to go hard for it are you going to get into the action? I'm just curious

 

There is no simple answer to the question. I would say it depends on the rarity of the item and how long we have been looking for an example. With art its even more difficult as everything is one of a kind. But if I want something as much as the a friend or fellow collector, I wish him the best of luck and bid what I would want to pay.

[drdroom]

At the end of the day both actions are not right and can change the landscape of any collectible market. A collector offered to add me to a group who takes turns buying pages of a certain character in an attempt to keep prices low. I declined. While this may benefit the collector(s), the consignor (who may also be a collector) will be hurt.

You could say the reason shill bidding is happening in any narrow collectible market is partially due to collusion.

 

If a collector friend of yours tells you he really wants something (that you happen to like as well) in an auction and is going to go hard for it are you going to get into the action? I'm just curious

 

There is no simple answer to the question. I would say it depends on the rarity of the item and how long we have been looking for an example. With art its even more difficult as everything is one of a kind. But if I want something as much as the a friend or fellow collector, I wish him the best of luck and bid what I would want to pay.

 

The key is "if I want something as much as". Then of course, collusion is off the table. But it sounds like you are open to collude once you and your friend have figured out who wants it more. I'm not so sure that you should feel guilty about that!

[suspense39]

At the end of the day both actions are not right and can change the landscape of any collectible market. A collector offered to add me to a group who takes turns buying pages of a certain character in an attempt to keep prices low. I declined. While this may benefit the collector(s), the consignor (who may also be a collector) will be hurt.

You could say the reason shill bidding is happening in any narrow collectible market is partially due to collusion.

 

If a collector friend of yours tells you he really wants something (that you happen to like as well) in an auction and is going to go hard for it are you going to get into the action? I'm just curious

 

There is no simple answer to the question. I would say it depends on the rarity of the item and how long we have been looking for an example. With art its even more difficult as everything is one of a kind. But if I want something as much as the a friend or fellow collector, I wish him the best of luck and bid what I would want to pay.

 

There definitely isn't a simple answer, myself I know if my friend is going to go higher and wants it more I don't bother bidding and move on to other things.

[ThothAmon]

At the end of the day both actions are not right and can change the landscape of any collectible market. A collector offered to add me to a group who takes turns buying pages of a certain character in an attempt to keep prices low. I declined. While this may benefit the collector(s), the consignor (who may also be a collector) will be hurt.

You could say the reason shill bidding is happening in any narrow collectible market is partially due to collusion.

 

If a collector friend of yours tells you he really wants something (that you happen to like as well) in an auction and is going to go hard for it are you going to get into the action? I'm just curious

 

There is no simple answer to the question. I would say it depends on the rarity of the item and how long we have been looking for an example. With art its even more difficult as everything is one of a kind. But if I want something as much as the a friend or fellow collector, I wish him the best of luck and bid what I would want to pay.

 

There definitely isn't a simple answer, myself I know if my friend is going to go higher and wants it more I don't bother bidding and move on to other things.

Don't mean to be rigid but to equate the two things is ludicrous. There are no rules or laws preventing individuals from communicating with one another about a future purchase. I would love to see some of the pm's between the heavy hitters in advance of big auctions. God knows if I knew Gator was wanting to buy something I coveted I would do my best to save him some money! On the other hand there are written rules with every auction house to prevent shill bidding and I'm fairly certain it breaks criminal law as well.

[AnkurJ]

With how much auction houses are said to shill bid and run other shady practices, I doubt they would attempt to prosecute collectors that decide to collude.

[tth2]

At the end of the day both actions are not right and can change the landscape of any collectible market. A collector offered to add me to a group who takes turns buying pages of a certain character in an attempt to keep prices low. I declined. While this may benefit the collector(s), the consignor (who may also be a collector) will be hurt.

You could say the reason shill bidding is happening in any narrow collectible market is partially due to collusion.

 

If a collector friend of yours tells you he really wants something (that you happen to like as well) in an auction and is going to go hard for it are you going to get into the action? I'm just curious

 

There is no simple answer to the question. I would say it depends on the rarity of the item and how long we have been looking for an example. With art its even more difficult as everything is one of a kind. But if I want something as much as the a friend or fellow collector, I wish him the best of luck and bid what I would want to pay.

 

There definitely isn't a simple answer, myself I know if my friend is going to go higher and wants it more I don't bother bidding and move on to other things.

Don't mean to be rigid but to equate the two things is ludicrous. There are no rules or laws preventing individuals from communicating with one another about a future purchase. I would love to see some of the pm's between the heavy hitters in advance of big auctions. God knows if I knew Gator was wanting to buy something I coveted I would do my best to save him some money! On the other hand there are written rules with every auction house to prevent shill bidding and I'm fairly certain it breaks criminal law as well.

This

[tth2]

With how much auction houses are said to shill bid and run other shady practices, I doubt they would attempt to prosecute collectors that decide to collude.

How could they possibly know or enforce it?

 

Are the police going to show up at my door because in the past 10 auctions I bid on Alex Raymond pieces but during the last auction I didn't? Short of getting copies of communications between myself and other bidders, there's no way they could possibly know about it or prove it.

 

Plus, as someone else has already mentioned, the impact of collusion by buyers is much more limited. I've agreed with other collectors not to go for a piece they wanted, or they would not go after a piece I wanted, but I never saw a bargain price resulting from our agreements. Why? Because there were a bunch of other collectors that we weren't lining up.

[AnkurJ]

With how much auction houses are said to shill bid and run other shady practices, I doubt they would attempt to prosecute collectors that decide to collude.

How could they possibly know or enforce it?

 

Are the police going to show up at my door because in the past 10 auctions I bid on Alex Raymond pieces but during the last auction I didn't? Short of getting copies of communications between myself and other bidders, there's no way they could possibly know about it or prove it.

 

Plus, as someone else has already mentioned, the impact of collusion by buyers is much more limited. I've agreed with other collectors not to go for a piece they wanted, or they would not go after a piece I wanted, but I never saw a bargain price resulting from our agreements. Why? Because there were a bunch of other collectors that we weren't lining up.

 

No way to enforce it, and probably not worth it.

And I agree that these agreements rarely lead to a bargain, at least from what I have seen.

[DeadpoolJr.]

At the end of the day both actions are not right and can change the landscape of any collectible market. A collector offered to add me to a group who takes turns buying pages of a certain character in an attempt to keep prices low. I declined. While this may benefit the collector(s), the consignor (who may also be a collector) will be hurt.

You could say the reason shill bidding is happening in any narrow collectible market is partially due to collusion.

 

If a collector friend of yours tells you he really wants something (that you happen to like as well) in an auction and is going to go hard for it are you going to get into the action? I'm just curious

I've had 1 person offer not to bid on something I liked, and have not bid on pieces I knew or heavily suspected friends would be bidding on. I don't think its a big deal since in auctions you can find a lot of things to spend your money on,and if its most have piece one could not mention what their interested in, or just say may the best man win.

[Unca Ben]

So what's the "better deal" consensus: Wood DD portrait cover $150k or Romita ASM bondage $170k?

 

I prefer the DD for even money, all the better for $20k+ less. But either way I'm not a player at that money anyway

 

The DD #9 cover would be a Wood grail for me.

I may be in the minority, but it's my favorite Wood cover from the run; maybe my favorite Wood superhero cover of all.

 

Probably nostalgia, DD #9 was the first DD book I bought.

I'm not a player at that kind of money either, but at least I own a decent panel page from that issue ! I can live with that.

 

I can see where you are coming from but what could surpass the DD 7 submareener cover ? xx

 

I agree, DD 7 is an iconic, beautiful cover and likely the symbol of Wally Wood's run on DD.

Which is why I qualified my statement as the DD 9 cover being my favorite as a minority opinion.

I suppose it shows how big a part nostalgia plays in my collecting.

 

We were on vacation and I vividy remember sitting in the motel room devouring DD 9. My parents bought it for me in the motel lobby along with a couple other books. I don't remember what the other books were.

I do remember Daredevil; the story, along with my first exposure to Wood's artwork, left quite an impression.

[fsumavila]

I really wanted to jump in on one of those Kirby Thundarr The Barbarian pieces, but was out of town with the family and the auction fell off my radar.

 

 

the Kirby Thundarr pencil piece for $2629 (including the vig) seems like a steal to me.

 

I'm assumin the much lower price for the other Kirby Thundarr drawing is due to the Alcala inks?

 

 

Some of the other prices really were incredible. The Jim Lee Hush cover & DPS both going for $34K+ each was almost as stunning as his Overstreet Wolverine/Punisher cover going for less than $9K!

 

Then there's the WHAT IF? #10 DPS that went for $5975 -- Rick Hoberg FTW!!!

 

 

[Hekla]

 

Then there's the WHAT IF? #10 DPS that went for $5975 -- Rick Hoberg FTW!!!

 

 

Jane Foster as Thor is a new Marvel title that is extremely popular. The price point for What If #10 comics has been much higher for about a year.

[fsumavila]

ah, that helps explain the premium price. haven't read the Jane Foster comic ...

thanks for the info!

 

Then there's the WHAT IF? #10 DPS that went for $5975 -- Rick Hoberg FTW!!!

 

 

Jane Foster as Thor is a new Marvel title that is extremely popular. The price point for What If #10 comics has been much higher for about a year.

[Ironmandrd]

Some strong Jim Lee Batman prices (especially to me the Hush DPS Batman vs. Superman).

 

Was curious - did anyone on the Boards pick up the Lee/Williams Black Canary splash from All Star Batman?

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/splash-pages/jim-lee-and-scott-williams-all-star-batman-and-robin-the-boy-wonder-3-splash-page-3-black-canary-original-art-d-1-/a/7124-92158.s?ic2=mybidspage-lotlinks-12202013

 

 

[AnkurJ]

I really wanted to jump in on one of those Kirby Thundarr The Barbarian pieces, but was out of town with the family and the auction fell off my radar.

 

 

the Kirby Thundarr pencil piece for $2629 (including the vig) seems like a steal to me.

 

I'm assumin the much lower price for the other Kirby Thundarr drawing is due to the Alcala inks?

 

 

Some of the other prices really were incredible. The Jim Lee Hush cover & DPS both going for $34K+ each was almost as stunning as his Overstreet Wolverine/Punisher cover going for less than $9K!

 

Then there's the WHAT IF? #10 DPS that went for $5975 -- Rick Hoberg FTW!!!

 

 

I bid strong on that Thor dps but it wasn't enough.

[AKA Rick]

Some strong Jim Lee Batman prices (especially to me the Hush DPS Batman vs. Superman).

 

Was curious - did anyone on the Boards pick up the Lee/Williams Black Canary splash from All Star Batman?

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/splash-pages/jim-lee-and-scott-williams-all-star-batman-and-robin-the-boy-wonder-3-splash-page-3-black-canary-original-art-d-1-/a/7124-92158.s?ic2=mybidspage-lotlinks-12202013

 

 

I was a contender for the piece, my limit was $3,300 which equates to $4k after paying the vig Heritage charges (i.e. Buyers Premium), where I had to tap out and let it go to a more passionate bidder/buyer.

 

It's cover quality and great rendering, but what stopped me was that it was from the "All Star" universe and the storyline, 'tho written by Frank Miller, wasn't even close to a "Dark Knight" nor a "Hush" in Batman folklore, and the character of Black Canary wasn't and isn't too remarkable to justify going beyond that for me personally

 

I have a feeling it's a piece I may regret not acquiring in the future 'tho, but we can't win nor own everything. I do think the price was a great one and I'd probably think it has upward potential to have value of $6k+ easily and are fairly sure if the buyer ever wanted to get out of the piece, he (or she) wouldn't have a hard time pulling their money off the table to break even and probably would profit nicely.