I like pie Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) I notice a lot of people defending the film and stating , "Nothing will be as good as the original." From what I've read on other bad reviews, that isn't the issue and personally, the hump I can't get over is the corruption of the original source material. I never expected it to meet or exceed Episide 4-6. Edited December 16, 2017 by I like pie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmaz Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, I like pie said: I notice a lot of people defending the film and stating , "Nothing will be as good as the original." From what I've read on other bad reviews, that isn't the issue and personally, the hump I can't get over is the corruption of the original source material. I never expected it to meet or exceed Episide 4-6. I just think it's impossible to make more Star Wars movies without "corrupting" the original source material. New fallen snow is beautiful. And you can leave it there and look at it, and it will always look beautiful. But if you want to go play in it... you're going ot make foot prints. People got very excited when the idea of new movies was announced... and the fact of the matter is, this is what happens. Someone with a point a view is going to take the old material and introduce new idea and tell a new story. We can always enjoy the original trilogy. Nothing prevents that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, I like pie said: I notice a lot of people defending the film and stating , "Nothing will be as good as the original." From what I've read on other bad reviews, that isn't the issue and personally, the hump I can't get over is the corruption of the original source material. I never expected it to meet or exceed Episide 4-6. This is what I do not get. TLJ certainly changes the trajectory of the source material, but I am not sure how is changes the core of the force, but does leave it open for reinterpretation. The very basic idea of good vs. evil has not changed. Of course Luke is different, he is no longer a naive farm boy, he has been beaten down and made bitter over his lifetime. Leia is different, she has also been though a lot. To be honest there is not that much source material in the source material if you only look at the first three movies. All the lore people seem upset about comes from either the prequels (which so many Star Wars fans also hate), the cartoons, or the other media that had filled the voids between when the various movies were released. The richest source for the expansion of the Star Wars lore comes from all the books and comics that Disney got rid of 5 years ago. I think much of what the hard core fans wanted to see was if Disney would mine that now discarded material. That material is their Star Wars, and they now realize the vast amount of that will never make it onto the screen, and in fact what is now canon directly opposes that rich history. Fans wanted to see the three Solo and Leia children, but sorry you are only getting the one. They wanted to see Mara Jade and a happy content Luke, that is all gone now. They wanted to see the rebirth of the Jedi order lead by Luke, again all gone now. I could go on and on and honestly I have read maybe a grand total of 5 Star Wars books, and loved the Timothy Zahn books. For me those were episodes 7, 8 and 9. Many hard core fans loved all that material, and they feel like they have been majorly snubbed now that they must deal with the fact that all that is gone. They invested a lot of time and energy into that material. Now they feel like that time was either wasted or they have been given the finger. They are having trouble letting go. Guess what the general audience has no knowledge of? All the material that was scrapped, they do not miss it, or feel somehow violated that it is being change or ignored. They are not invested in any of it, so the changes made in TLJ carry none of the weight or repercussions. They just walked into TLJ and excepted that this is what comes next. Edited December 16, 2017 by drotto Antpark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artboy99 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, fmaz said: I just think it's impossible to make more Star Wars movies without "corrupting" the original source material. New fallen snow is beautiful. And you can leave it there and look at it, and it will always look beautiful. But if you want to go play in it... you're going ot make foot prints. People got very excited when the idea of new movies was announced... and the fact of the matter is, this is what happens. Someone with a point a view is going to take the old material and introduce new idea and tell a new story. We can always enjoy the original trilogy. Nothing prevents that. I am glad we have the original trilogy to watch. So disappointed in Disney. Disney buys the franchise, then their room full of writers under some Disney corporate executive comes up with a new movie/ story and what it is rehashes the 1977 movie A New Hope. New character names in new location names but the same thing happens. I am hoping with all my heart that The Last Jedi is something new and creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I like pie Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) I'm not coming across well with what I mean by changing the story. Mostly because I can't be specific without spoilers. Saying that, it's not a horrible movie by itself. TLJ just doesn't seem like it's taking place in the same universe as the movies had been since 1977. Edited December 16, 2017 by I like pie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) Spoiler Here goes my rant! These are my thoughts on the film and a lot of people seem to be having the same main issue. I personally enjoyed the Force Awakens. I liked it better than any prequel. I thought Ridley was great as Rey. I liked Kylo Ren, but when his mask came off it was clear he is no Vader. Kind of reminds me of Keaton as Batman who I loved as Batman but never really bought him as Bruce Wayne. I know some people found Driver whiny but he personally didn’t bother me. I liked BB8 as the new R2. Yes I agree yet another Death Star was lame but could deal with it. I am a big Han Solo fan and was a little bumbed he did i the first installment of the new trilogy and didn’t get offed in the 2nd but was over all okay with it because Ford wanted the character offed in ROTJ and one of the earlier scripts had that happen and Luke going off in the sunset alone which is pretty how the film as we now find Solo dead and Luke isolated. Also Ford is almost a decade older than the rest of the original cast. I left the Force Awakens excites for Star Wars again and for the next installment. I loved loved the end scene with the music and the Luke revelation. I am a huge fan of ROTJ Luke and wanted to finally see him as a full Jedi master rocking that Green light saber...well I’m sorry but Last Jedi failed to really deliver this to me. I have no problem with them moving ahead with the new characters, they need to as the original cast members are quite old but what is the point of bringing them back if you are going to waste them both figuratively and literally? Once again as with the Force Awakens others have mentioned the plot was basically Empire with the Hoth battle moved from the beginning to the end of the film (Salt planet) and the battle with the Emperor from ROTJ being injected into the middle of this film Battle with Snoke). The whole plot with the First Order pursuing the Rebel fleet was basically the Empire hunting the Falcon in ESB and then of course Luke traing Rey took the place of Yoda training Luke. i personally found the first part of the film really boring which was making me worried as I watched. It finally picked up for me when Yoda showed up but there were few things there that bugged me in particular the lightning bolt he apparently sent down...which in the original triology kind of flies on the face of Obi-Wan saying he can’t do anything to help Luke as a force ghost. I know 2 complaints were Snoke biting the dust with any explaination to his back story. It would have been interesting to know but honestly what did we know about the Emperor in the original trilogy. To me it would have been interesting to know his back story especially if Luke disfigured him and how he was able to even corrupt Kylo Ren but in the end not necessary for me. It may possibly still be addressed but with him gone not really worth the screen time perhaps. The Snoke kill at that point was honestly a pleasant surprise that they had the balls to do that in the middle of the film. Something like that rarely happens. The other complaint I am seeing is the one about Rey’s parents. It’s possible Ren could have lied but she seemed to agree that she knew the truth that they are in fact nobodies. The only way I see this changing is if it is revealed Snoke had played around in her mind or even both hers and Kylo’s when bridging Kylo and Rey’s minds. I personally thought Ridley was fantastic in Force Awakens but her acting in this one seemed multiple notches below the previous film. My girl friend thought somewhat the same and agreed her character was at least weaker. I thought Poe was fleshed out better in this one. I didn’t care for Rose at all. That scene right after she crashed into Finn was lame as hell...bordering on Green Goblin Spider-Man roof top speech. Although there has always been some humor in the Star Wars films this one bordered on perhaps too much as they seem to be borrowing from the Marvel Universe. It did make me laugh including Luke chucking the light saber but overall probably not an appropriate amount for many scenes. And of course the thing that absolute made me lose interest in the film was Luke at the end. He came out with the black robes and I thought finally here we go...then no Green lightsaber instead the blue one that Rey and Kylo destroyed earlier in the film. Fine it was Vader’s original and he may have done it to antagonize Kylo. Not much of a battle...I had mixed feelings about the revelation he projected his appearance across worlds. I was glad that he didn’t pull an Obi-Wan in Star Wars and sacrifice himself so everyone else could escape because it was setting up that way for a minute. With the revelation that Luke had projected himself from worlds away I thought holy mess they at least portrayed him as a super poweful Jedi, although at one point I wondered as someone else did in the thread if he was going to go Force Unleashed and just crush the Walkers with the Force. But when he disappears and his robe floats away I was just like WTF...? Then instead of leaving it open ended Leia and Rey make it pretty clear that he had died...what did he do mess himself to death using the Force?! That was the lamest way for him to go the only thing that would have been almost as equally dumb is for him to let Kylo cut him down Obi-Wan style. It made his line to Kylo about seeing him around completely useless. What is he going to do haunt him as a Force Ghost? If he went out in a more epic way I probably would be unhappy but okay with the fact I won’t see him actually go full Jedi in battle like I have long hoped and just leave it ROTJ. If something like a Star Destroyer appeared in Luke’s sunset and blew up his island as Snoke had previously mentioned I’d probably be okay with Luke not making it but the way they chose to do it was so lame it ruined the whole move and the franchise going forward. The only possible thing that could happen and I give it a 5% chance is if JJ says in the next film this it was a red herring. Luke turned himself off to the Force again after raising the X-Wing from the water and left the island. I get they want to move the series in a new direction but why kill off the characters people grew up on? Use the actors while they are still alive! You have the rights to the franchise going forward just don’t include the original characters in your next Saga! Instead you are compeltely turning off the old school adult people...we’re the ones with the money mind you. I can’t tell you the amount of nerdy my girlfriend and I buy. I spent about $200 on Luke’s green Force FX Saber and ROTJ cloak this summer. My girl friend wasn’t annoyed with Luke’s death , which is the only reason I will be seeing the next movie but leaving the theater after the Last Jedi I had no desire to see the next film or keep up with the franchise. She mentioned Luke had to die to balance out the Force as I have seen mentioned a few other places BUT doing that it going too much j to prequel territory. Is the next film going to reveal that Rey has more midiclorins (not gonna look up actual spelling) than Vader? Also if they are moving forward with the franchise why do solo films of characters like Kenobi and Solo? And also why aren’t that doing a solo Vader film because I guarantee more people Would be interested in that than Kenobi...also you could do it while James Earl Jones is alive! See above for my rant full of spoilers! Edited December 16, 2017 by Mephisto Rant mr_highgrade and bane 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 3 hours ago, I like pie said: I notice a lot of people defending the film and stating , "Nothing will be as good as the original." From what I've read on other bad reviews, that isn't the issue and personally, the hump I can't get over is the corruption of the original source material. I never expected it to meet or exceed Episide 4-6. Rogue One was as good as the original trilogy, despite the mess in the middle with Forest Whitaker. I like pie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sneeze Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) This is just my first impression. Spoiler This movie is poorly crafted! It is all over the map and hard to watch. This isn't fanboy angst as I've been pretty receptive to whats come before and enjoyed it for the space fantasy that it is. There are some brilliant scenes to be sure but overall it's a disjointed mess. This would would be the first movie out of nine that I would say this about. I have no agenda or had any expectation going in, I rarely do other than wanting to see a well made film and this is not a well made film. And just to be clear, I was one of those wide eyed 10 year old kids back in 77 upon who Star Wars made a lasting impression. I saw that film 10 times, red the paperback just as many - I would finish and go right back to the front and start again. There is no movie that can ever give me that experience again and I certainly wasn't looking for this one to. On the plus side... Mark Hamill is awesome! and George Lucas is probably having a good laugh. Maybe I'll feel better about it after another viewing, but I'm in no hurry Edited December 17, 2017 by Mr Sneeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WernerVonDoom Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I owe George Lucas the biggest apology ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark88 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, Werner_Von_Doom said: I owe George Lucas the biggest apology ever. I found the Last Jedi (TLJ) watchable. Better edited than The Force Awakens. But TLJ movie seemed to primarily be based on Jedi mind tricks and 'These are not the droids you are looking for.' Overall, I would say 'Justice League' even with it's plot (Superman) inconsistencies was the better movie, as it was good to see new heroes and origins introduced (young Flash, Cyborg, Atlantis and Aquaman) plus the power of Steppenwolf whom we did not know much about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, kdoginohio said: Anakin's mom was a nobody. But Anakin's dad was absolutely epic...have YOU ever been raped by the Force before? Edited December 17, 2017 by fantastic_four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) I enjoyed the film. I've got some of the same complaints listed already in the thread but it didn't ruin the film for me. The big mid-movie lightsaber fight was AWESOME, although the big death during it was anti-climactic in that it took a character that had promise and just wiped it out before that promise was ever fulfilled. I don't get the end movie death at all. Seemed like an allusion to Obi-Wan's death, but far more pointless. But I never fully understood Obi-Wan choosing to die, either, other than how he said it would make him "more powerful than you could ever imagine." Which I don't see how it did. Edited December 17, 2017 by fantastic_four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Given the revelations in this film about Rey's possible parentage, two major elements from Force Awakens are now not making sense to me in retrospect: In Force Awakens, from the very first time Kylo Ren hears about Rey in the scene below he seems unusually interested in her. His interest was so intense throughout the film that I assumed that J.J. Abrams was telling us that he already knew who she was and all about her Force sensitivity. So what, Rian Johnson dropped that entirely? The way I'm understanding the Last Jedi,the first time Kylo ever met or heard of her was during the events of Force Awakens, and if that's the case, why was he so fixated on her throughout the film? When Leia first meets Rey in Force Awakens shown in the second clip below, she greets her warmly with a long, lingering hug like she already knows who she is despite the fact that it's the first time either of them have ever met. Why did that happen given that Last Jedi is suggesting Rey is a stranger to all of the current characters? The thing to remember about what Kylo said is that he got the information about Rey's parents from reading her own mind, so it's not clear that he got it right or that he's even telling the truth about whatever he saw from her memories. Artboy99 and SkOw 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anfield Fox Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 This video sums up everything wrong with TLJ WolverineX, Azkaban and bane 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antpark Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 8 hours ago, fantastic_four said: When Leia first meets Rey in Force Awakens shown in the second clip below, she greets her warmly with a long, lingering hug like she already knows who she is despite the fact that it's the first time either of them have ever met. Why did that happen given that Last Jedi is suggesting Rey is a stranger to all of the current characters? It's been a while, but wasn't this after Han had died? I see this scene more as Leia -- being older and having had more experience in dealing with the pain of losing loved ones -- offering comfort in a maternal/parental way to the younger Rey, who hadn't and was still very affected by the events that had just transpired. This quote from another YouTube video also kind of sums it up for me Quote Leia was a General & obviously she would have known the details of the mission & who they were trying to save & bring back. Rey was a huge fan of Luke & so for sure she would have known about Leia. So even according to the evidence of the canon they were well & truly aware of each other's existence. Even if you subtract all that, she came back from a death-defying rescue mission & someone was there to comfort her from the trauma. So the hug makes total sense in both contexts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) How would Leia have any idea that Han meant anything at all to Rey? Her reaction to Rey still makes NO sense to me given that they're strangers, and if those hypothesized reasons were the actual reasons, Abrams should have shown something to set it up. And even assuming those hypothesized reasons were all true, where was Finn's big hug? They both were around Han the same amount of time and were both right there when he died. I had seen your quoted reasoning before I posted, but it's not enough to explain the tenderness of the hug. I've also seen the idea posited that Force-sensitive people recognize each other and that was the reason for their affinity, but I don't like that, either. "Because the Force" can be a lame, catch-all reason for almost everything that defies explanation that you want to explain, and I want them to stop doing that. I HATED the idea that somehow Luke can project the Force across many light-years in an instant...how the heck is THAT supposed to work? It moves things further from any science-based reasoning at all and more towards magic. Although I suppose I should just stop trying to make any sense out of the ideas shown in Star Wars movie. Even as a kid I remember thinking when Han said the Millennium Falcon runs at "1.5 times the speed of light" that it makes no sense given that most star systems are many light YEARS apart, so even if say Hoth and Dagobah are as close together as Earth's closest star system Alpha Centauri, that's still 4 light years, meaning it would take the Falcon about two and a half years to make the trip. Edited December 17, 2017 by fantastic_four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Anfield Fox said: This video sums up everything wrong with TLJ WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsilverjanet Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Can we keep some major plot points in spoilers for at least a little longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 22 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said: Can we keep some major plot points in spoilers for at least a little longer How much longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
