STAR WARS : Episode VIII December 15, 2017 4 4

[Bosco685]

Just now, fantastic_four said:

I'm not pissed that it's looking like she's not of their lines, I'm pissed that The Force Awakens had multiple hints that she WAS of their lines and it turned out they may have been just empty teases.  Rian Johnson explicitly says in your linked article that Kylo wasn't lying, that he really did believe what he was telling her.  Whether or not it's true is a separate thing, but that's the truth as it stands for now.

But I still don't get that long Leia hug when she met Rey for the very first time in Force Awakens, so it may turn out Kylo misinterpreted what he saw in Rey's mind.

I think she was lied to about her origin. To convince her to fall in with his plan for moving forward. At least, I think that is what took place.

[fantastic_four]

1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

I think she was lied to about her origin. To convince her to fall in with his plan for moving forward. At least, I think that is what took place.

So you also think Rian Johnson is lying in that article then?

[WolverineX]

11 hours ago, Anfield Fox said:

This video sums up everything wrong with TLJ

 

Totally agree.  The mouse

Spoiler

killed my boy Luke Skywalker

.  The only thing making me excited about the series. 

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, fantastic_four said:

So you also think Rian Johnson is lying in that article then?

That's my thought. They are throwing us off the path. At least, I hope so.

[WolverineX]

On 12/16/2017 at 6:27 PM, Mephisto said:

  Hide contents

 

Here goes my rant!

These are my thoughts on the film and a lot of people seem to be having the same main issue.

I personally enjoyed the Force Awakens. I liked it better than any prequel. I thought Ridley was great as Rey. I liked Kylo Ren, but when his mask came off it was clear he is no Vader. Kind of reminds me of Keaton as Batman who I loved as Batman but never really bought him as Bruce Wayne. I know some people found Driver whiny but he personally didn’t bother me. I liked BB8 as the new R2. Yes I agree yet another Death Star was lame but could deal with it.

I am a big Han Solo fan and was a little bumbed he did i the first installment of the new trilogy and didn’t get offed in the 2nd but was over all okay with it because Ford wanted the character offed in ROTJ and one of the earlier scripts had that happen and Luke going off in the sunset alone which is pretty how the film as we now find Solo dead and Luke isolated. Also Ford is almost a decade older than the rest of the original cast.

I left the Force Awakens excites for Star Wars again and for the next installment. I loved loved the end scene with the music and the Luke revelation.

I am a huge fan of ROTJ Luke and wanted to finally see him as a full Jedi master rocking that Green light saber...well I’m sorry but Last Jedi failed to really deliver this to me. I have no problem with them moving ahead with the new characters, they need to as the original cast members are quite old but what is the point of bringing them back if you are going to waste them both figuratively and literally?

Once again as with the Force Awakens others have mentioned the plot was basically Empire with the Hoth battle moved from the beginning to the end of the film (Salt planet) and the battle with the Emperor from ROTJ being injected into the middle of this film Battle with Snoke).

The whole plot with the First Order pursuing the Rebel fleet was basically the Empire hunting the Falcon in ESB and then of course Luke traing Rey took the place of Yoda training Luke.

i personally found the first part of the film really boring which was making me worried as I watched.

It finally picked up for me when Yoda showed up but there were few things there that bugged me in particular the lightning bolt he apparently sent down...which in the original triology kind of flies on the face of Obi-Wan saying he can’t do anything to help Luke as a force ghost.

I know 2 complaints were Snoke biting the dust with any explaination to his back story. It would have been interesting to know but honestly what did we know about the Emperor in the original trilogy. To me it would have been interesting to know his back story especially if Luke disfigured him and how he was able to even corrupt Kylo Ren but in the end not necessary for me. It may possibly still be addressed but with him gone not really worth the screen time perhaps.

The Snoke kill at that point was honestly a pleasant surprise that they had the balls to do that in the middle of the film. Something like that rarely happens.

The other complaint I am seeing is the one about Rey’s parents. It’s possible Ren could have lied but she seemed to agree that she knew the truth that they are in fact nobodies. The only way I see this changing is if it is revealed Snoke had played around in her mind or even both hers and Kylo’s when bridging Kylo and Rey’s minds.

I personally thought Ridley was fantastic in Force Awakens but her acting in this one seemed multiple notches below the previous film. My girl friend thought somewhat the same and agreed her character was at least weaker.

I thought Poe was fleshed out better in this one.

I didn’t care for Rose at all. That scene right after she crashed into Finn was lame as hell...bordering  on Green Goblin Spider-Man roof top speech.

Although there has always been some humor in the Star Wars films this one bordered on perhaps too much as they seem to be borrowing from the Marvel Universe. It did make me laugh including Luke chucking the light saber but overall probably not an appropriate amount for many scenes.

And of course the thing that absolute made me lose interest in the film was Luke at the end.

He came out with the black robes and I thought finally here we go...then no Green lightsaber instead the blue one that Rey and Kylo destroyed earlier in the film. Fine it was Vader’s original and he may have done it to antagonize Kylo.

Not much of a battle...I had mixed feelings about the revelation he projected his appearance across worlds. I was glad that he didn’t pull an Obi-Wan in Star Wars and sacrifice himself so everyone else could escape because it was setting up that way for a minute.

With the revelation that Luke had projected himself from worlds away I thought holy mess they at least portrayed him as a super poweful Jedi, although at one point I wondered as someone else did in the thread if he was going to go Force Unleashed and just crush the Walkers with the Force.

But when he disappears and his robe floats away I was just like WTF...? Then instead of leaving it open ended Leia and Rey make it pretty clear that he had died...what did he do mess himself to death using the Force?! That was the lamest way for him to go the only thing that would have been almost as equally dumb is for him to let Kylo cut him down Obi-Wan style. It made his line to Kylo about seeing him around completely useless. What is he going to do haunt him as a Force Ghost? 

If he went out in a more epic way I probably would be unhappy but okay with the fact I won’t see him actually go full Jedi in battle like I have long hoped and just leave it ROTJ.

If something like a Star Destroyer appeared in Luke’s sunset and blew up his island as Snoke had previously mentioned I’d probably be okay with Luke not making it but the way they chose to do it was so lame it ruined the whole move and the franchise going forward.  

The only possible thing that could happen and I give it a 5% chance is if JJ says in the next film this it was a red herring. Luke turned himself off to  the Force again after raising the X-Wing from the water and left the island.

I get they want to move the series in a new direction but why kill off the characters people grew up on? Use the actors while they are still alive! You have the rights to the franchise going forward just don’t include the original characters in your next Saga! 

Instead you are compeltely turning off the old school adult people...we’re the ones with the money mind you. I can’t tell you the amount of nerdy my girlfriend and I buy. I spent about $200 on Luke’s green Force FX Saber and ROTJ cloak this summer.

My girl friend wasn’t annoyed with Luke’s death , which is the only reason I will be seeing the next movie but leaving the theater after the Last Jedi I  had no desire to see the next film or keep up with the franchise.

She mentioned Luke had to die to balance out the Force as I have seen mentioned a few other places BUT doing that it going too much j to prequel territory. Is the next film going to reveal that Rey has more midiclorins (not gonna look up actual spelling) than Vader?

Also if they are moving forward with the franchise why do solo films of characters like Kenobi and Solo? And also why aren’t that doing a solo Vader film because I guarantee more people Would be interested in that than Kenobi...also you could do it while James Earl Jones is alive!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See above for my rant full of spoilers!

Dude, I totally felt the same way about this.  I'm not watching this again.  Why screw with the old characters just to force us to watch the new ones...   Totally awful direction.  Initially, JJ Abrams said he did not include Luke in the first movie because no one would care about Rey.... looks like all he wants us to do is care about the characters he created ...

[Rip]

52 minutes ago, Wolverinex said:

Dude, I totally felt the same way about this.  I'm not watching this again.  Why screw with the old characters just to force us to watch the new ones...   Totally awful direction.  Initially, JJ Abrams said he did not include Luke in the first movie because no one would care about Rey.... looks like all he wants us to do is care about the characters he created ...

Spoiler

I suspect they will still use Luke for the next one at least as a force ghost, maybe Yoda also. He might help Ray fix the lightsaber, build a new one, or find Luke's green one.
Although Disney could go even a step further have no Luke/Yoda force ghost and she also learns lightsaber repair from the Jedi books.

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Rip

[fmaz]

This is nuts.   Wasn’t sure if this has been posted yet.   But it explains a lot, and it’s also sad that someone would do this.   Not that audience scores ever really meant anything before... but now they forever more will have zero merit.

 

 

[Gatsby77]

3 hours ago, Werner_Von_Doom said:

They made a decent movie that at the same time spit on Luke Skywalker.  If you have no problem with that, I don't know what to say. It makes me ill thinking about it.    

BS.

How did it spit on Skywalker?

It showed he had an impressive display of power, fit with his character arc established throughout the movie (and didn't contradict anything we saw of him in Empire or Jedi), and was far more believable than if they'd simply turned him into a god -- a la Neo in Matrix Reloaded. 

[Sardo Numspar]

This movie makes me crave the Phantom Menace. In fact, I am going to watch the Jar Jar Binks scenes over and over tonight in order to try and erase the poop that I just watched on the big screen.

[Gatsby77]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

I think she was lied to about her origin. To convince her to fall in with his plan for moving forward. At least, I think that is what took place.

 Bosco and I agree about something??

But...exactly.

Folks who are butthurt about this seem to be ignoring the strong (and ridiculously obvious) possibility that Kylo was lying.

[I like pie]

12 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

BS.

How did it spit on Skywalker?

It showed he had an impressive display of power, fit with his character arc established throughout the movie (and didn't contradict anything we saw of him in Empire or Jedi), and was far more believable than if they'd simply turned him into a god -- a la Neo in Matrix Reloaded. 

If you really think the Luke portrayed in TLJ is the same as Episode 4-6, then you missed something magical. 

[Rip]

8 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

 Bosco and I agree about something??

But...exactly.

Folks who are butthurt about this seem to be ignoring the strong (and ridiculously obvious) possibility that Kylo was lying.

Was Kylo lying? How did he lie if she already knew the answer before he told her?

Furthermore when she looked for answers in the cave it seemed to be telling her that parents didn't matter, only who she was right now.

 

“But for me, in that moment, Kylo believes it’s the truth,” Johnson added. “I don’t think he’s purely playing chess. I think that’s what he saw when they touched fingers and that’s what he believes. And when he tells her that in that moment, she believes it.”

 

Edit, but who know what JJ could do. She did say she had been to the Force tree before. Was it in a dream or is she something reincarnated.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Rip

[shadroch]

In ten years, Luke's grandchildren will time travel back to the post Return of the Jedi era and save the Universe, destroying the alternative universe we have been forced to endure.

Edited December 18, 2017 by shadroch

[I like pie]

1 hour ago, fmaz said:

This is nuts.   Wasn’t sure if this has been posted yet.   But it explains a lot, and it’s also sad that someone would do this.   Not that audience scores ever really meant anything before... but now they forever more will have zero merit.

 

 

I don't buy this either. Sounds like someone trying to give themselves an epeen stroke. There is obviously a decent split on how the film was received by audiences.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

6 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

BS.

How did it spit on Skywalker?

It showed he had an impressive display of power, fit with his character arc established throughout the movie (and didn't contradict anything we saw of him in Empire or Jedi), and was far more believable than if they'd simply turned him into a god -- a la Neo in Matrix Reloaded. 

So, the young, ever hopeful farm boy, the one who believed that the most vile and feared man in the Universe was not beyond redemption, (you know, the same one responsible for slaughtering younglings in the Jedi temple and for untold countless other deaths: Vader, in case you can't figure it out), decides the way to combat the "growing darkness" in his own nephew was to assassinate him in his sleep before  that evil could manifest?  The young Jedi who was willing to be killed by the Emperor instead of slaying his father out of hatred, out of anger, was willing to coldly murder his only remaining male relative, his own flesh and blood, because of what he could become, and then instead of fighting for his nephew's soul even after the incident at the temple, retreats to this forgotten planet to die in sullen disgrace?  (BTW, has anyone figured out why Luke left a map with R2 to this planet, if he didn't want to be found?)

He never thought to confront Snoke himself to try and save Ben Solo?  He just...gave up and left?  The Luke Skywalker I grew up with would've rather died trying to save his nephew....the only thing this one knew how to do spectacularly was Quit. 

Let's re-imagine the start of ROTJ with the same mindset.... Luke: "Jabba has Han in his stronghold as a wall decoration?  We have to infiltrate that place to try and get him back?  Meh...that sounds difficult...I won't bother.  I'm going to go pout about the fact my dad's a bad dude who wasn't there for me growing up.  Sniff"

This might've been an acceptable Luke for the coddled, give-up-before-you-try, don't threaten my "safe space" Millennial generation, but not for me brother.   

It's really no different then how Michael Bay transformed the life-loving, self-sacrifical Optimus Prime of my youth into a mindless executioner of other sentient beings in the films.  No, I take that back...it's worse.   At least the Optimus Prime of the Transformer's movies knows who his enemies are and confronts them in order to serve a greater good.  He doesn't retreat from the fight and gives a big finger to the galaxy in the process.

So go ahead and excuse away this movie and what it did to one of the most beloved heroes of the 20th century...I don't think you are going to find many buyers for what you are trying to peddle on this Board.

Edited December 18, 2017 by JiveTurkeyMoFo

[Sardo Numspar]

59 minutes ago, JiveTurkeyMoFo said:

So, the young, ever hopeful farm boy, the one who believed that the most vile and feared man in the Universe was not beyond redemption, (you know, the same one responsible for slaughtering younglings in the Jedi temple and for untold countless other deaths: Vader, in case you can't figure it out), decides the way to combat the "growing darkness" in his own nephew was to assassinate him in his sleep before  that evil could manifest?  The young Jedi who was willing to be killed by the Emperor instead of slaying his father out of hatred, out of anger, was willing to coldly murder his only remaining male relative, his own flesh and blood, because of what he could become, and then instead of fighting for his nephew's soul even after the incident at the temple, retreats to this forgotten planet to die in sullen disgrace?  (BTW, has anyone figured out why Luke left a map with R2 to this planet, if he didn't want to be found?)

He never thought to confront Snoke himself to try and save Ben Solo?  He just...gave up and left?  The Luke Skywalker I grew up with would've rather died trying to save his nephew....the only thing this one knew how to do spectacularly was Quit. 

Let's re-imagine the start of ROTJ with the same mindset.... Luke: "Jabba has Han in his stronghold as a wall decoration?  We have to infiltrate that place to try and get him back?  Meh...that sounds difficult...I won't bother.  I'm going to go pout about the fact my dad's a bad dude who wasn't there for me growing up.  Sniff"

This might've been an acceptable Luke for the coddled, give-up-before-you-try, don't threaten my "safe space" Millennial generation, but not for me brother.   

It's really no different then how Michael Bay transformed the life-loving, self-sacrifical Optimus Prime of my youth into a mindless executioner of other sentient beings in the films.  No, I take that back...it's worse.   At least the Optimus Prime of the Transformer's movies knows who his enemies are and confronts them in order to serve a greater good.  He doesn't retreat from the fight and gives a big finger to the galaxy in the process.

So go ahead and excuse away this movie and what it did to one of the most beloved heroes of the 20th century...I don't think you are going to find many buyers for what you are trying to peddle on this Board.

Exactly!! Haha, you’re the best George.

[media_junkie]

1 hour ago, JiveTurkeyMoFo said:

So, the young, ever hopeful farm boy, the one who believed that the most vile and feared man in the Universe was not beyond redemption, (you know, the same one responsible for slaughtering younglings in the Jedi temple and for untold countless other deaths: Vader, in case you can't figure it out), decides the way to combat the "growing darkness" in his own nephew was to assassinate him in his sleep before  that evil could manifest?  The young Jedi who was willing to be killed by the Emperor instead of slaying his father out of hatred, out of anger, was willing to coldly murder his only remaining male relative, his own flesh and blood, because of what he could become, and then instead of fighting for his nephew's soul even after the incident at the temple, retreats to this forgotten planet to die in sullen disgrace?  (BTW, has anyone figured out why Luke left a map with R2 to this planet, if he didn't want to be found?)

He never thought to confront Snoke himself to try and save Ben Solo?  He just...gave up and left?  The Luke Skywalker I grew up with would've rather died trying to save his nephew....the only thing this one knew how to do spectacularly was Quit. 

Let's re-imagine the start of ROTJ with the same mindset.... Luke: "Jabba has Han in his stronghold as a wall decoration?  We have to infiltrate that place to try and get him back?  Meh...that sounds difficult...I won't bother.  I'm going to go pout about the fact my dad's a bad dude who wasn't there for me growing up.  Sniff"

This might've been an acceptable Luke for the coddled, give-up-before-you-try, don't threaten my "safe space" Millennial generation, but not for me brother.   

It's really no different then how Michael Bay transformed the life-loving, self-sacrifical Optimus Prime of my youth into a mindless executioner of other sentient beings in the films.  No, I take that back...it's worse.   At least the Optimus Prime of the Transformer's movies knows who his enemies are and confronts them in order to serve a greater good.  He doesn't retreat from the fight and gives a big finger to the galaxy in the process.

So go ahead and excuse away this movie and what it did to one of the most beloved heroes of the 20th century...I don't think you are going to find many buyers for what you are trying to peddle on this Board.

Nailed it.  

[bane]

Some views from the water cooler at work this morning...
 

"Very dissapointed, a movie of missed opportunities and unanswered questions while taking a big dump on one of my favourite character"

"Enjoyable, it was what it was"

"45 minutes too long, was bored through alot of it, hated the forced "Marvel" humour"

The first guy is the die hard fan, he loved TFA but hated this. The other two are not what Gatsby called "#nerdrage", just general movie goers

[Gatsby77]

1 hour ago, JiveTurkeyMoFo said:

So, the young, ever hopeful farm boy, the one who believed that the most vile and feared man in the Universe was not beyond redemption, (you know, the same one responsible for slaughtering younglings in the Jedi temple and for untold countless other deaths: Vader, in case you can't figure it out), decides the way to combat the "growing darkness" in his own nephew was to assassinate him in his sleep before  that evil could manifest?  The young Jedi who was willing to be killed by the Emperor instead of slaying his father out of hatred, out of anger, was willing to coldly murder his only remaining male relative, his own flesh and blood, because of what he could become, and then instead of fighting for his nephew's soul even after the incident at the temple, retreats to this forgotten planet to die in sullen disgrace?  (BTW, has anyone figured out why Luke left a map with R2 to this planet, if he didn't want to be found?)

Your characterization of Luke in the first part of your sentence is exactly correct. Luke was the "young, ever hopeful farm boy" who believed in redemption, even for Vader.

But he's also lived 30+ years since the events of Jedi, and seen that his work -- and the work of the Jedi in general -- has been for naught. They failed. Evil is just as persistence now under the burgeoning New Order as it was under the Empire of old.

Just as valid a character arc for me as Roy Batty's (given his monologue at the end) or Katniss Evergreen's -- who at the end of the first Hunger Games book is living out her retirement as a hollow shell, still suffering from PTSD from all she went through.

Even moreso because we don't know what personal struggles Luke himself endured in those 30 years -- how many he saw slaughtered, etc. All we know is that tyranny persisted anyway.

And no -- he was tempted to assassinate Ren -- momentarily overcome by the darkness in the pit -- but then he didn't. Of course he didn't. He's Luke Skywalker.

Here are two essays that discuss the fan disconnect far more eloquently than I at the moment:

1) Slashfilm: 

"Luke’s hopelessness is especially affecting because the film is clearly on his side. This is not a movie where a plucky young Jedi-to-be shows up at the old master’s doorstep and teaches him how to hope again. This is a movie where a flawed old man with a lifetime of victories and regrets informs the decisions of a new generation of young heroes who need to find a new way to hope. Clearly, the old ways didn’t work because darkness rises again and there are still tyrannical man-babies trying to be the next Darth Vader. There’s a flaw in the system, buried too deep for most to see, and the only solution is to burn it all down."

Further, "...Yoda knows what Luke knows – the order to which he dedicated his long life is gone, and trying to recapture it is a fool’s errand. Why resurrect an archaic institution that cannot serve a new generation when you can let that new generation build something new for itself? Even Luke, a noble man who believed in the hidden goodness of Darth Vader, gave into his darkest feelings and considered murdering young Ben Solo in his sleep. The old ways failed Luke. They failed Ben. They will fail the Resistance. Luke knows this through anger and regret. Yoda knows this through wisdom and perspective."

2) Vanity Fair: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-backlash-negative-fan-reactions-rotten-tomatoes-score

"Luke rallies when he needs to and pulls off the most powerful Force-using move we’ve ever seen in this franchise—a galaxy-spanning feat of astral projection. Luke had to hit rock bottom, green milk and all, in order to soar to new heights. This story was always going to end with Luke reduced, Yoda-like, to a pile of clothes and far from advocating the end of the Jedi, Johnson’s film firmly underlines how they will carry on—even without Luke."

[Red_Hood]

Good action....

Sadly, did not capture the essence of Star Wars.  Left the theater completely unsatisfied with any of the storytelling.

Didn't care about any of the characters at all to the point that I wished Rose a swift death every time she was on the screen.

God...Rose from the Titanic would've been a better choice.