CAPTAIN MARVEL starring Brie Larson (3/8/19) 5 5

[fantastic_four]

22 minutes ago, Bird said:

27 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Humanity has done exactly the same thing to EVERY other species that we have co-existed with on Earth.  Therefore, we, too, are villains using that logic.

I am talking about a movie, not arguing philosophy.

Then why did you respond to the philosophical question that the movie posed and that I relayed here?  

Edited March 4, 2019 by fantastic_four

[Bird]

3 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Then why did you respond to the philosophical question that the movie posed and that I relayed here?  

Like I said I was talking about the movie which would include philosophical questions posed in the movie

And if you quote me I feel something of an obligation to respond

[kimik]

1 hour ago, RedRaven said:

I think I've lost the Marvel love. Took me 10 months to finally watch Avengers IW and I enjoyed the movie well enough but just didn't experience the same level of fun I once had going to a Marvel movie. I think it started with Dr. Strange, a movie I was absolutely all onboard for. Movie finally comes out and somehow I don't make it to the theatre. I finally catch it on Amazon and, again, enjoyed it but never rewatched it. I started reading the Avengers during their mega-team days and Carol Danvers definitely had my adolescent affection. I just cant seem to reconcile Brie Larson in that role. She reminds me more of Alicia Silverstone from Clueless. Someone more appropriate for a teen comedy etc. Not sure how common the Marvel exhaustion is but I cant be the only one in that boat.

You're not alone. I talked with 20 or so regular buyers I know well at a local one-day show yesterday. Most of them said they were looking forward to Avengers End Game but would not be seeing Captain Marvel. When I asked why, they all said too many Marvel movies over the past couple of years, but there were a couple that said they did not care for Captain Marvel as a character (only two of them saw Ant-Man in theatres - summer holidays and viewer apathy to the character were the two big reasons for that). The relatively close release date for End Game does not help - a couple of the people I talked with mentioned that they were just going to save the $$$ and wait for potential multiple viewings of that film instead.

I still think that CM will do well ($700-$800M box office), but I wonder if we are finally starting to see the oversaturation point.

[drotto]

27 minutes ago, kimik said:

You're not alone. I talked with 20 or so regular buyers I know well at a local one-day show yesterday. Most of them said they were looking forward to Avengers End Game but would not be seeing Captain Marvel. When I asked why, they all said too many Marvel movies over the past couple of years, but there were a couple that said they did not care for Captain Marvel as a character (only two of them saw Ant-Man in theatres - summer holidays and viewer apathy to the character were the two big reasons for that). The relatively close release date for End Game does not help - a couple of the people I talked with mentioned that they were just going to save the $$$ and wait for potential multiple viewings of that film instead.

I still think that CM will do well ($700-$800M box office), but I wonder if we are finally starting to see the oversaturation point.

I think the MCU is suffering from its own success.  It has gotten us to love the characters as well as the people who play them over the last ten years. We realize that people are getting older, and out of necessity, the MCU must change, characters are going to need to be written out or recast.  So Endgame is really seen as The End by many people. They are invested to see the completion of this massive, unprecedented 10 years story. We are unsure where CM fits being such a late addition to the proceedings, when every other character in the movie has been around for at least 3 to 4 years now. Thus (putting aside everything else going on around CM currently), CM is not seen as part of the old, but rather part of the new, and people are not convinced they are ready or willing to go forward yet.

 

Marvel has an extremely difficult job moving forward.  They must make us care about a completely new group of characters, new stories, etc, without us getting fatigued. This is seen not as much as a continuation, but a reset or even a reboot of the MCU. The public historically has much less enthusiasm for those type of properties.  What Marvel is attempting to do is much more akin to a network trying to get more mileage out of its 10 year old TV show (and there are very few of those), which historically has been virtually impossible.  With very rare exceptions, the spin offs and reinventions never reach the same level of success. 

[chezmtghut]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

Humanity has done exactly the same thing to EVERY other species that we have co-existed with on Earth.  Therefore, we, too, are villains using that logic.

That was Ultron's logic in wiping out humanity & to some extent it's true. There are so many arguments to be said on this topic that we could go on for days. I don't see it as an overpopulation issue as much as it is a greed issue though. The 1%ers controlling 99% of the wealth on this planet being the major problem. We're just the laborers contributing to their system of control. Without our labor, those 1%ers wealth would have little value.

[chezmtghut]

5 minutes ago, drotto said:

I think the MCU is suffering from its own success.  It has gotten us to love the characters as well as the people who play them over the last ten years. We realize that people are getting older, and out of necessity, the MCU must change, characters are going to need to be written out or recast.  So Endgame is really seen as The End by many people. They are invested to see the completion of this massive, unprecedented 10 years story. We are unsure where CM fits being such a late addition to the proceedings, when every other character in the movie has been around for at least 3 to 4 years now. Thus (putting aside everything else going on around CM currently), CM is not seen as part of the old, but rather part of the new, and people are not convinced they are ready or willing to go forward yet.

 

Marvel has an extremely difficult job moving forward.  They must make us care about a completely new group of characters, new stories, etc, without us getting fatigued. This is seen not as much as a continuation, but a reset or even a reboot of the MCU. The public historically has much less enthusiasm for those type of properties.  What Marvel is attempting to do is much more akin to a network trying to get more mileage out of its 10 year old TV show (and there are very few of those), which historically has been virtually impossible.  With very rare exceptions, the spin offs and reinventions never reach the same level of success. 

I would honestly like to see Marvel create a TV series of the Avengers individually & as an ensemble, similar to what WB has been doing with the Arrow-verse. They could cast new actors for the roles & have it play out in a separate universe from the MCU. I think Marvel is really limiting themselves by keeping MCU characters for the big screen alone. This is why DC has better superhero shows than Marvel.

[drotto]

9 minutes ago, chezmtghut said:

I would honestly like to see Marvel create a TV series of the Avengers individually & as an ensemble, similar to what WB has been doing with the Arrow-verse. They could cast new actors for the roles & have it play out in a separate universe from the MCU. I think Marvel is really limiting themselves by keeping MCU characters for the big screen alone. This is why DC has better superhero shows than Marvel.

Unfortunately the CW Arrowverse seems to be losing some steam at this point, and the new characters and series are being shifted behind the DC streaming paywall.

[Bosco685]

8 minutes ago, drotto said:

Unfortunately the CW Arrowverse seems to be losing some steam at this point, and the new characters and series are being shifted behind the DC streaming paywall.

Wait until Disney + kicks in and see how things sit. I bet you will see those shows behind the old bank paywall as well.

[drotto]

Just now, Bosco685 said:

Wait until Disney + kicks in and see how things sit. I bet you will see those shows behind the old bank paywall as well.

They have already announced a Loki show and a Scarlet Witch and Vision show, if I am not mistaken.  Disney + and paywall bound. 

[Bosco685]

19 minutes ago, drotto said:

They have already announced a Loki show and a Scarlet Witch and Vision show, if I am not mistaken.  Disney + and paywall bound. 

Correct. And Winter Soldier/Falcon.

[Gatsby77]

1 hour ago, chezmtghut said:

I would honestly like to see Marvel create a TV series of the Avengers individually & as an ensemble, similar to what WB has been doing with the Arrow-verse. They could cast new actors for the roles & have it play out in a separate universe from the MCU. I think Marvel is really limiting themselves by keeping MCU characters for the big screen alone. This is why DC has better superhero shows than Marvel.

Umm...this is exactly what Marvel did by licensing half a dozen separate shows to Netflix.

And I would argue that, overall, of the 150 or so Marvel Netflix episodes released so far, the average episode is equal to or better than the average episode of Arrow/The Flash/Supergirl/Legends of Tomorrow.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Gatsby77

[chezmtghut]

39 minutes ago, drotto said:

They have already announced a Loki show and a Scarlet Witch and Vision show, if I am not mistaken.  Disney + and paywall bound. 

That's a nice start but a few 8 episode mini series isn't going to keep viewers interested long term. I have no problem with them keeping the original cast, but the payroll of some actors like RDJ & SJ would be too extravagant.

[revat]

3 minutes ago, chezmtghut said:

1 hour ago, drotto said:

They have already announced a Loki show and a Scarlet Witch and Vision show, if I am not mistaken.  Disney + and paywall bound. 

That's a nice start but a few 8 episode mini series isn't going to keep viewers interested long term. I have no problem with them keeping the original cast, but the payroll of some actors like RDJ & SJ would be too extravagant.

BUT are we sure there's still a profitable market for normal broadcast series of 15+ ep seasons with commercials?  in the short term, there probably is, but that's not where the trend appears to be going now.  Agents of Shield is marginally popular, but Marvel missed with Peggy Carter and Inhumans on broadcast tv (although to be fair they were short series), but once they have their own streaming service it might simply be more profitable to keep doing mini (or large mini) series.  Of course most metrics on the streaming services are not made public but I think we all assume Netflix is reasonably profitable and the Marvel shows did reasonably well.

I think once Disney streaming starts up they probably will have some 'ongoing' content for Marvel.

[WolverineX]

4 hours ago, letsgrumble said:

That is the risk.

She did see Into the Spider-Verse, twice, and she's now obsessed with Spider-Man and co. She has since watched all the Spider films and has no problem with Venom or the Lizard so I guess we did a good job getting her all desensitized in time for Captain Marvel. 

does she read comics?  I don't think any kids read comics anymore... too many forms of entertainment now

[chezmtghut]

15 minutes ago, revat said:

BUT are we sure there's still a profitable market for normal broadcast series of 15+ ep seasons with commercials?  in the short term, there probably is, but that's not where the trend appears to be going now.  Agents of Shield is marginally popular, but Marvel missed with Peggy Carter and Inhumans on broadcast tv (although to be fair they were short series), but once they have their own streaming service it might simply be more profitable to keep doing mini (or large mini) series.  Of course most metrics on the streaming services are not made public but I think we all assume Netflix is reasonably profitable and the Marvel shows did reasonably well.

I think once Disney streaming starts up they probably will have some 'ongoing' content for Marvel.

I agree with you. There's no need to have 16 - 22 episodes spaced out over the year. Once Disney streaming is up & running, I would be happy with higher quality 8 - 13 episode series like they did with Netflix. If they would do an Avengers/Defenders solo & group series, they would have more than enough characters to air 1 show each month.

[chezmtghut]

36 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Umm...this is exactly what Marvel did by licensing half a dozen separate shows to Netflix.

And I would argue that, overall, of the 150 or so Marvel Netflix episodes released so far, the average episode is equal to or better than the average episode of Arrow/The Flash/Supergirl/Legends of Tomorrow.

I tend to agree with that except that Flash is more dear to me than most other characters. I remember the original series from the 90's & find it more a kin to Smallville, which is still my favorite.

[Jaydogrules]

So.... just stay to get this straight....

Rotten Tomatoes, in a blatantly transparent attempt to "save" this movie,  felt compelled to step in and completely change their "want to see" scores and algorithms because of the alleged "trolls" that were supposedly tanking this movie's early scores.  

Funny how alleged "score tanking trolls" never seemed to bother RT into such drastic action when the same thing was (allegedly) happening on suicide squad and justice league.  

They just lost whatever remaining credibility they had.

-J.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Jaydogrules

[chezmtghut]

3 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

So.... just stay to get this straight....

Rotten Tomatoes, in a blatantly transparent attempt to "save" this movie,  felt compelled to step in and completely change their "want to see" scores and algorithms because of the alleged "trolls" that were supposedly tanking this movie's early scores.  

Funny how alleged "score tanking trolls" never seemed to bother RT into such drastic action when the same thing was (allegedly) happening on suicide squad and justice league.  

They just lost whatever remaining credibility they had.

-J.

Ya, I'd have to agree with that. They shouldn't allow any audience scores for any film pre-release. There's no way to stop trolls from hitting back afterwards though & I'm sure CM will get hit again.

[Bird]

My family and I loved the first season pf Peggy carter. The second season was okay but still good, just not as good as the first.

The biggest problem is competition...there are just too many shows to watch everything. My TiVo is almost full, I want to watch American Gods but it is on Starz, I didn't have time to finish Jessica Jones season 2, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. There are a bunch of regular non-superhero shows I like that I have 10-20 episodes of on TiVo...Superstore, Big Bang Theory, The Middle, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. (That etc is a movie reference but I don;t even remember which one.)

[Gatsby77]

26 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

So.... just stay to get this straight....

Rotten Tomatoes, in a blatantly transparent attempt to "save" this movie,  felt compelled to step in and completely change their "want to see" scores and algorithms because of the alleged "trolls" that were supposedly tanking this movie's early scores.  

Funny how alleged "score tanking trolls" never seemed to bother RT into such drastic action when the same thing was (allegedly) happening on suicide squad and justice league.  

They just lost whatever remaining credibility they had.

-J.

  Rotten Tomatoes has never had any credibility for its audience scores.

If you're even looking at the "audience scores" there (for any movie) you're doing it wrong.