The Undead Thread: Pre-Code Horror 21 21

[goldust40]

Ok, stop bidding up the books I want

 

 

 

Seriously, some of them are really starting to climb...

 

There are a lot of nice slabbed copies of some of these books in current auctions that may go for less than people are paying for these raw copies...feeding frenzy...speculation...

 

Perhaps, although the majority of the books are in the lower grades.

 

Right, that's my point, people are bidding up lower grade books in a frenzy when slabs with confirmed grades are at least currently auctioning for less. Look at the Menace 11 on Clink....

 

Anyway, the auctions are early so it may not pan out that way, but it is interesting.

 

 

I checked both auctions and you're right. Remarkable.

 

That's because the guys buying raw books are often collectors who don't care for GPA or slabbed books. They're just collectors who want a copy of a book. The guys buying slabbed books are part speculator / part collector.

 

This just reinforces my belief that there are multiple types of markets out there.

 

It also crushes the idea that just because it's slabbed it sells for more.

 

 

On this particular occasion with this particular seller.

 

I also think that the guys buying the raw books are equally likely to be speculators, rolling the dice on the pretext that the book might be undergraded and presumably unpressed.

 

Almost certainly true.

 

 

+1

 

There are also plenty of Atlas "collectors" buying slabs at record setting prices.

 

I find it hard to believe a "speculator" paid $2K+ for a JIM 16 CGC 5.5 in a recent HA auction with the intent of turning around and selling it at a profit any time soon (if they did they have a problem).

 

I assume some collector really wanted that book for his run and didn't care about price because it would almost certainly sell for quite a bit less if put back up at auction right now.

 

There are lots of examples in the last year of eye popping Atlas prices for slabs at auction and they can't be the work of speculators because these books can't be sold at a profit anytime soon e.g. the CGC 9.0 Spellbound 14 that sold for $9K or the high grade, post code, JIM's in the March CC auction that went for approx. $10K. There are many others - nearly every JIM in that March auction.

 

Bottom line is I don't think the high slab sale prices at auction are due to speculators, but more likely collectors who are filling runs or recognize how tough some books are, doubt they will get another shot and are OK with paying top, top dollar right now.

 

I would guess most "speculators" focus on the raw Atlas that comes up for sale on Ebay, here and in the weekly HA auctions - pressing VG/FN into FN and so on - this is also a fool's errand in my opinion.

 

Anyway, that's my two cents and my comments are limited to Atlas only.

 

And a +1 for this.

[Johnny545]

Also, god bless the speculators or whoever buys a book I sell regardless of their intent or motivation.

 

Without them I would never be able to roll little books into big books or obtain the books I always wanted, but never thought I would own.

 

 

[Tri-Color Brian]

 

 

Yes, we interrupt this very serious conversation to make a joke...thank you for playing Robot Man...

Edited November 19, 2015 by tricolorbrian

[VintageComics]

On this particular occasion with this particular seller.

 

With many particular sellers who are not immersed in GPA / CGC / CGC Chat forum. It's not about the seller, it's about the types of buyers.

 

I also think that the guys buying the raw books are equally likely to be speculators, rolling the dice on the pretext that the book might be undergraded and presumably unpressed.

 

Sure, but the raw collector market is much larger than the CGC graded flipper market. And if a slabbed book is going cheap on Clink they wouldn't know it because they ignore slabbed comic sales.

[goldust40]

On this particular occasion with this particular seller.

 

With many particular sellers who are not immersed in GPA / CGC / CGC Chat forum. It's not about the seller, it's about the types of buyers.

 

I also think that the guys buying the raw books are equally likely to be speculators, rolling the dice on the pretext that the book might be undergraded and presumably unpressed.

 

Sure, but the raw collector market is much larger than the CGC graded flipper market. And if a slabbed book is going cheap on Clink they wouldn't know it because they ignore slabbed comic sales.

 

I can't imagine the two markets as you refer to them are mutually exclusive.

[jimjum12]

I put in a few bids on some that I like. Maybe I'm jaded but I don't really see anything that I would define as "bidding going crazy", although I'm seeing a couple dozen or so books that may end robustly. It's certainly a great auction for those putting together runs..... which is still a relatively affordable venture with most of the low to mid grades..... and let's face it, if someone goes in for the rare or obscure, how many people in the room can claim a full run of Uncanny Tales or Journey into Unknown Worlds ? GOD BLESS.....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

.....I'm definitely looking forward to running a "Completed Sales" search for Atlas a few days after auction's close.....

Edited November 19, 2015 by jimjum12

[october]

Ok, stop bidding up the books I want

 

 

 

Seriously, some of them are really starting to climb...

 

There are a lot of nice slabbed copies of some of these books in current auctions that may go for less than people are paying for these raw copies...feeding frenzy...speculation...

 

Perhaps, although the majority of the books are in the lower grades.

 

Right, that's my point, people are bidding up lower grade books in a frenzy when slabs with confirmed grades are at least currently auctioning for less. Look at the Menace 11 on Clink....

 

Anyway, the auctions are early so it may not pan out that way, but it is interesting.

 

 

I checked both auctions and you're right. Remarkable.

 

I don't bother tracking their auctions. It's not that there is anything wrong with them, there isn't (and that's kind of the point), but they achieve above market prices on a lot of the auctions. Overpaying is not my thing.

 

are you referring to clink or comics4less?

 

Comics4less. They have joined the ranks of Calm-mix and Sparkle City....auctions that are always tempting and always end higher than I ever want to go.

[VintageComics]

On this particular occasion with this particular seller.

 

With many particular sellers who are not immersed in GPA / CGC / CGC Chat forum. It's not about the seller, it's about the types of buyers.

 

I also think that the guys buying the raw books are equally likely to be speculators, rolling the dice on the pretext that the book might be undergraded and presumably unpressed.

 

Sure, but the raw collector market is much larger than the CGC graded flipper market. And if a slabbed book is going cheap on Clink they wouldn't know it because they ignore slabbed comic sales.

 

I can't imagine the two markets as you refer to them are mutually exclusive.

 

They are not entirely exclusive from each other. There will always be some crossover between them as nothing is an island, obviously, but there are many people in both markets that don't cross over at all. Some don't want the risk so they stick to slabs.

 

I would say though, that the raw market is much larger than the slabbed market, and especially in certain parts of the country (I'm speaking US now) those buyers are almost entirely in the dark about the CGC market. They just plain avoid it.

 

I see it often with estate auctions. A batch of comics shows up and local guys bid the roof off the books, paying more than the book would go for if it was CGC graded.

 

 

[Scrooge]

I'll side with Roy on this one. I've attended my fair share of local cons and large cons and met a few active Atlas collectors and raw is the way to go; esp. since the vast majority of Atlas books aren't slabbed (think War, Western, Teen, Romance, Funnies, etc). Heck, one of the completists I met had never even heard of Jim Payette or Doug Sulipa and was ever so thankful for tipping him to them though he had near complete runs of all Atlas, all raw, on hand.

 

So, in that context, the purchase of a slabbed book is rare for that market segment; a market segment that is happy to rile against CGC books b/c rage & derision is easier than understanding.

 

The fact that they perceive the slabbed books as receiving a premium that's not warranted leads them interestingly to ignore that market and chasing the raw books to the extent that today, you can indeed find cheaper slabs than raw copies at times is truly an irony.

[VintageComics]

I've had guys call me looking for a particular copy of a book and I'd have it slabbed but not raw.

 

So I'd offer the book and they'd quickly reply that they don't buy slabbed books.

 

I then reply that I'm happy to remove the book from the slab for them and then they stop and decline, saying they'll think about it.

 

For whatever reason, in many raw collector's minds the slab is an obstacle they just can't get past.

 

And yet they're happy to pay a strong OSPG price for a raw book. It's illogical.

 

It's the weirdest thing.

 

 

[goldust40]

I'll side with Roy on this one. I've attended my fair share of local cons and large cons and met a few active Atlas collectors and raw is the way to go; esp. since the vast majority of Atlas books aren't slabbed (think War, Western, Teen, Romance, Funnies, etc). Heck, one of the completists I met had never even heard of Jim Payette or Doug Sulipa and was ever so thankful for tipping him to them though he had near complete runs of all Atlas, all raw, on hand.

 

So, in that context, the purchase of a slabbed book is rare for that market segment; a market segment that is happy to rile against CGC books b/c rage & derision is easier than understanding.

 

The fact that they perceive the slabbed books as receiving a premium that's not warranted leads them interestingly to ignore that market and chasing the raw books to the extent that today, you can indeed find cheaper slabs than raw copies at times is truly an irony.

 

Yep, plenty of old-schoolers like that in the U.K. But then they've been around since the ark.

[Larryw7]

 

Is that supposed to.be Phil Levine?

[Tri-Color Brian]

I don't know...it's from an old Collector's Assemble ad in the OPG. I thought that ad was hysterical..

 

[Robot Man]

That's what I thought too. Some of those other people look a bit familiar as well.

[Robot Man]

And back on topic. Yeah I got some of those Atlas on my radar too. Especially the post code ones that I never picked up a lot of. Incredible load of books!

[fifties]

On this particular occasion with this particular seller.

 

With many particular sellers who are not immersed in GPA / CGC / CGC Chat forum. It's not about the seller, it's about the types of buyers.

 

I also think that the guys buying the raw books are equally likely to be speculators, rolling the dice on the pretext that the book might be undergraded and presumably unpressed.

 

Sure, but the raw collector market is much larger than the CGC graded flipper market. And if a slabbed book is going cheap on Clink they wouldn't know it because they ignore slabbed comic sales.

 

I can't imagine the two markets as you refer to them are mutually exclusive.

 

They are not entirely exclusive from each other. There will always be some crossover between them as nothing is an island, obviously, but there are many people in both markets that don't cross over at all. Some don't want the risk so they stick to slabs.

 

I would say though, that the raw market is much larger than the slabbed market, and especially in certain parts of the country (I'm speaking US now) those buyers are almost entirely in the dark about the CGC market. They just plain avoid it.

 

I see it often with estate auctions. A batch of comics shows up and local guys bid the roof off the books, paying more than the book would go for if it was CGC graded.

 

I'd like to weigh in on this, FWIW, so you'll get one more raw collector's mind-set; I buy my comics in order to read the stories, which of course can't be done when the book is entombed in plastic.

 

I just don't see any point in enclosing it, and AFA a valid grade, CGC has graded books with brittle pages up to a 3.5, so what's so great about their grading?

 

Most purchases on eBay, whether by dealers or collectors, seem to fall within a + or - of the grade they offer as their opinion. As well, scans of the front and back covers, and maybe an interior page, are usually sufficient to reasonably ascertain a books grade on the screen.

 

I HAVE purchased a few slabbed, lower grade books, but upon receipt, removed them to be raw again.

 

I have also perceived that a slabbed book will go for a premium over the same in raw condition, so I usually don't bother perusing auctions containing nothing but slabs.

[Tri-Color Brian]

I agree...I like my books free from slabs, but I will buy a slabbed book if it is the same grade and price (or cheaper) as a free book, and then I will set it free. I understand the advantage to slabbing a high grade book if you want to get top dollar for it, but for lower grades I think it's a waste of time and money...

Edited November 19, 2015 by tricolorbrian

[goldust40]

I placed THIS just-listed auction on my watch list, with the bidding at $100. I check my eBay watch page after a couple of hours and find it's up to $1500 already.

 

PCH still very much a draw...

[Point Five]

I placed THIS just-listed auction on my watch list, with the bidding at $100. I check my eBay watch page after a couple of hours and find it's up to $1500 already.

 

PCH still very much a draw...

I love it when lowball end-the-auction-early offers get posted publicly.

 

 

[goldust40]

I placed THIS just-listed auction on my watch list, with the bidding at $100. I check my eBay watch page after a couple of hours and find it's up to $1500 already.

 

PCH still very much a draw...

I love it when lowball end-the-auction-early offers get posted publicly.

 

 

Yeah, I saw that (always amusing). Vindication for the seller couldn't've happened much quicker.