2016 November 17 - 18 Comics Signature Auction - Beverely Hills

[Nexus]

As an example (only, not that I know anything) how many other pieces prior to and since has Albert passed on (bidding?, winning?) since GL76? Is there sag at lower levels due to this? Apply those questions to any/all big tickets that went to known quantities "in the hobby" (not Hugh Jackman )

 

Not an unreasonable assumption, but trust me...Albert hasn't slowed down a bit. He's HA's (and consignors') best friend. It he retired today, it might very well be a fatal double-whammy on values. Not only because he would stop bidding, but because he would also start selling. And I don't know that there's anyone right now to pick up that slack.

 

As it is...a bit sobering to consider what the market would look like even now, if he hadn't been around.

 

 

[tentpeg06]

Congrats Hari! Was wondering who beat me to it

 

Glad to see this page went to someone who truly understands the subject matter and appreciates its significance

 

Well, I absolutely do, so thank you! This is where it all starts. Did you get the other one?

 

Hari,

Congrats on the IM 55 pick-up! I would love to see this page in person as I agree with your assessment that this was THE first time that Starlin detailed Thanos' origin. I was out at $12K for both IM 55 pages, and it was nice to see the strength of the Starlin market show for this auction.

 

If the consignor truly picked up this page for the $15.00 price tag marked at the lower right corner from Starlin, then it is one heckuva return on investment. Unfortunately, it is somewhat difficult to calculate the yearly return on this investment depending on what year the consignor purchased the page. While Starlin drew this page in 1972 or 1973, then what year did he truly sell it?

Ciao!

PRC

[Nexus]

Weak prices? No. Weaker than expected? Yes, at least for more than just the couple/few notables that have been the exceptions in recent auctions.

 

Come to think of it, I know of at least 3 (high-end) examples in this auction where I know for a fact that the consignors' expectations were MUCH higher than the realized prices, even though those looking just at public comps probably think they're doing cartwheels right now. And that's even apart from the obvious disappointments like the Craig VOH covers, the Kirby Thor cover and BWS Conan cover, among others.

 

Biggest shocker to the room was the Frazetta painting. Expected to go for 2-3X hammer. I wasn't surprised, though...who wants to pay up for a ginger barbarian? Ginger barbarianess, yes. Ginger barbarian, no.

[batman_fan]

As an example (only, not that I know anything) how many other pieces prior to and since has Albert passed on (bidding?, winning?) since GL76? Is there sag at lower levels due to this? Apply those questions to any/all big tickets that went to known quantities "in the hobby" (not Hugh Jackman )

 

Not an unreasonable assumption, but trust me...Albert hasn't slowed down a bit. He's HA's (and consignors') best friend. It he retired today, it might very well be a fatal double-whammy on values. Not only because he would stop bidding, but because he would also start selling. And I don't know that there's anyone right now to pick up that slack.

 

As it is...a bit sobering to consider what the market would look like even now, if he hadn't been around.

 

 

Sounds kind of like that movie "Its a Wonderful Life" but only for OA

[delekkerste]

Not an unreasonable assumption, but trust me...Albert hasn't slowed down a bit. He's HA's (and consignors') best friend.

 

I heard that he's been bifurcating the competition.

 

Doc Joe is definitely making a strong run at Albert's BFF status at Heritage.

[NinjaSealed]

I have been surprised at the results of other art auctions recently, HA and otherwise- I think prices are softening for sub-$1000 art, no matter how much some dealers try to artificially prop it up.

 

I agree for the most part, but I think the reason sub-$1000 art is softening is because there ISN'T any concerted efforts by dealers trying to prop it up. That's more of a real market.

 

Curious if anyone would name any specifics, as from my point of view a lot of sub $1k art is now sub $2k art and a lot of ~200 dollar art is now ~500 dollar art as compared to a year or two ago.

[Panelfan1]

 

 

from my point of view a lot of sub $1k art is now sub $2k art and a lot of ~200 dollar art is now ~500 dollar art as compared to a year or two ago.

 

I also feel that way. Especially on the saturday. A lot of the late 70s early 80s stuff stood out to me as going that way.

[vodou]

17% !! Incredible....of course you've got shipping and potential sales tax so maybe it wasn't so generous.

Great point Chris. I get those types of offers regularly on lower end material. Something I might have gotten for $100 (all in ex-shipping) several years ago and the offer is $200 (and the lower end of FMV). Well after HA takes their 10%, it's $180. Then I'm out the shipping/insurance to HA, another $25 , so now we're down to $155. And let's not forget I did pay some outbound shipping from HA to me originally too. Not even worth the trouble of reading that far into the e-mail for circa $55, so when I counter at $450, the top end of FMV, not because I'm greedy but that's what would make it worth the trouble...crickets. Which I do understand!

[vodou]

As an example (only, not that I know anything) how many other pieces prior to and since has Albert passed on (bidding?, winning?) since GL76? Is there sag at lower levels due to this? Apply those questions to any/all big tickets that went to known quantities "in the hobby" (not Hugh Jackman )

 

Not an unreasonable assumption, but trust me...Albert hasn't slowed down a bit. He's HA's (and consignors') best friend.

Yeah I knew that was a bad example, Albert is nothing if not highly liquid. And a true fan, not just a dealer.

[Mmehdy]

Weak prices? No. Weaker than expected? Yes, at least for more than just the couple/few notables that have been the exceptions in recent auctions.

 

Come to think of it, I know of at least 3 (high-end) examples in this auction where I know for a fact that the consignors' expectations were MUCH higher than the realized prices, even though those looking just at public comps probably think they're doing cartwheels right now. And that's even apart from the obvious disappointments like the Craig VOH covers, the Kirby Thor cover and BWS Conan cover, among others.

 

Biggest shocker to the room was the Frazetta painting. Expected to go for 2-3X hammer. I wasn't surprised, though...who wants to pay up for a ginger barbarian? Ginger barbarianess, yes. Ginger barbarian, no.

 

I would say the carl barks Persia painting going under 30K was the biggest shocker, it was sold without reserve and my estimate was 75K plus BP....way down..anybody have a explanation ?

[50 Cent #II (1st)]

Did anyone here pick up the Beck Odalisque painting yesterday? Congrats to all the Underground Art winners yesterday.

I dropped out two bids before it closed. And I still regret that. But it's a double elephant (as in folio-speak) and I've already got three monsters taking up three walls so...

 

Also crating and shipping on this will be at least $500, probably more like $800 if you're anywhere east of TX. Maybe more. So factor that in and it's a $3k+ piece that will take up a lot of...space. One needs to really love it. And keep loving it for a long tim. (or have a very big closet!)

 

I was on the floor. I was willing to go to about $2.6k w/BP, so when she called warning at $2k I put up my paddle, but it shot to $2,400 so I don't even know if my bid registered or if the $2,200 was online, a moment later it went to 2,600. Regret not putting a cut bid in for 2.7k for a last chance at it now. Since I was there I wouldn't have had to ship and would have picked it up in BH, unless they would have screwed up again this time like they did previously. If ayone with buyer''s remorse on that item is here, I'm willing to listen...

 

I mean who really wants a sexy duck painting on their wall, but me?

[comix4fun]

i wonder what was behind that painting selling for almost twice as much 4 years ago as it just went for yesterday.

[50 Cent #II (1st)]

i wonder what was behind that painting selling for almost twice as much 4 years ago as it just went for yesterday.

 

Are you referring to the Beck Daisy Duck one posted? Sold on Friday you mean, not yesterday. If so, wasn't aware it had sold before. I'd figured Sack had had it for a long time.

[delekkerste]

I would say the carl barks Persia painting going under 30K was the biggest shocker, it was sold without reserve and my estimate was 75K plus BP....way down..anybody have a explanation ?

 

I don't claim to be a Barks expert, nor do I play one on TV. That said, looking at the Heritage archives, $75K plus BP ($89.6K) sounds too rich to me. But, even so, $28.7K sounds very low as well. I would have guessed anywhere from $35-$55K to be FMV personally. Now, whether a Barks painting of this quality *should* be worth the same as a Rich Buckler FF cover is open to debate, but, that appears to be where the market is now.

 

My guess is that there aren't a lot of new Barks/Duck collectors out there, and the existing collector base is all 5-6 years older from when these were coming out of the woodwork in 2010-11 and fetching much higher prices. Also guessing that a lot of those collectors got one or more examples they really liked back then, and might not be as aggressive now, especially towards material that isn't top-tier. I would wager that a similar dynamic has taken place in much of illustration/pin-up art as well.

 

Personally, I think we're going to see a lot of these kinds of changes in relative value among items that have historically been more valuable as time goes by. You're already seeing a pretty clear shift in tastes among younger collectors out there even within comic art. I would wager that there's not much up-and-coming interest in Barks among the 20 and 30-something set out there, at least not at the kind of prices we saw circa 2011.

[delekkerste]

i wonder what was behind that painting selling for almost twice as much 4 years ago as it just went for yesterday.

 

Two guys bidding it up 4 years ago, one of those guys (the winner) no longer in the equation now, no wider interest at the 4 years ago price - that would be my guess.

[comix4fun]

i wonder what was behind that painting selling for almost twice as much 4 years ago as it just went for yesterday.

 

Are you referring to the Beck Daisy Duck one posted? Sold on Friday you mean, not yesterday. If so, wasn't aware it had sold before. I'd figured Sack had had it for a long time.

 

 

Yeah. Friday. Sold through Heritage in 2012 for $5900.

[50 Cent #II (1st)]

i wonder what was behind that painting selling for almost twice as much 4 years ago as it just went for yesterday.

 

Are you referring to the Beck Daisy Duck one posted? Sold on Friday you mean, not yesterday. If so, wasn't aware it had sold before. I'd figured Sack had had it for a long time.

 

 

Yeah. Friday. Sold through Heritage in 2012 for $5900.

 

Well Sack has big pockets I'd guess by his collection, so I'm sure he could pay whatever it went to last time then.

[Mmehdy]

I would say the carl barks Persia painting going under 30K was the biggest shocker, it was sold without reserve and my estimate was 75K plus BP....way down..anybody have a explanation ?

 

I don't claim to be a Barks expert, nor do I play one on TV. That said, looking at the Heritage archives, $75K plus BP ($89.6K) sounds too rich to me. But, even so, $28.7K sounds very low as well. I would have guessed anywhere from $35-$55K to be FMV personally. Now, whether a Barks painting of this quality *should* be worth the same as a Rich Buckler FF cover is open to debate, but, that appears to be where the market is now.

 

My guess is that there aren't a lot of new Barks/Duck collectors out there, and the existing collector base is all 5-6 years older from when these were coming out of the woodwork in 2010-11 and fetching much higher prices. Also guessing that a lot of those collectors got one or more examples they really liked back then, and might not be as aggressive now, especially towards material that isn't top-tier. I would wager that a similar dynamic has taken place in much of illustration/pin-up art as well.

 

Personally, I think we're going to see a lot of these kinds of changes in relative value among items that have historically been more valuable as time goes by. You're already seeing a pretty clear shift in tastes among younger collectors out there even within comic art. I would wager that there's not much up-and-coming interest in Barks among the 20 and 30-something set out there, at least not at the kind of prices we saw circa 2011.

 

 

well said...in 2010/2011 the largest carl barks art collection sold thru HA.com and it bought a lot interest to the barks market and does not help that you have two BIG fish in the market keeping the best of the best with Theo with about 29 of the best oils and Carl..he has his own painting website with about 20. so the super good stuff is locked up.....and needs to get out there, but Gene thinks have a way of coming back in favor over time..I have seen this over my 50 plus yeas of collecting..batman at one time went out of favor, superman was in,now it the other way...I see the market coming back but it needs a push...good comments thanks...

[comix4fun]

I would say the carl barks Persia painting going under 30K was the biggest shocker, it was sold without reserve and my estimate was 75K plus BP....way down..anybody have a explanation ?

 

I don't claim to be a Barks expert, nor do I play one on TV. That said, looking at the Heritage archives, $75K plus BP ($89.6K) sounds too rich to me. But, even so, $28.7K sounds very low as well. I would have guessed anywhere from $35-$55K to be FMV personally. Now, whether a Barks painting of this quality *should* be worth the same as a Rich Buckler FF cover is open to debate, but, that appears to be where the market is now.

 

My guess is that there aren't a lot of new Barks/Duck collectors out there, and the existing collector base is all 5-6 years older from when these were coming out of the woodwork in 2010-11 and fetching much higher prices. Also guessing that a lot of those collectors got one or more examples they really liked back then, and might not be as aggressive now, especially towards material that isn't top-tier. I would wager that a similar dynamic has taken place in much of illustration/pin-up art as well.

 

Personally, I think we're going to see a lot of these kinds of changes in relative value among items that have historically been more valuable as time goes by. You're already seeing a pretty clear shift in tastes among younger collectors out there even within comic art. I would wager that there's not much up-and-coming interest in Barks among the 20 and 30-something set out there, at least not at the kind of prices we saw circa 2011.

 

 

well said...in 2010/2011 the largest carl barks art collection sold thru HA.com and it bought a lot interest to the barks market and does not help that you have two BIG fish in the market keeping the best of the best with Theo with about 29 of the best oils and Carl..he has his own painting website with about 20. so the super good stuff is locked up.....and needs to get out there, but Gene thinks have a way of coming back in favor over time..I have seen this over my 50 plus yeas of collecting..batman at one time went out of favor, superman was in,now it the other way...I see the market coming back but it needs a push...good comments thanks...

 

Batman and Superman are characters. Barks was an artist.

 

To analyze data points we should probably keep our artist apples away from our character oranges. Characters may fall in and out of favor but it's the creators that work on those character that drive the value. So I don't think people are sick of Donald Duck, they might just not appreciate Barks at those price levels any more being that they lack the personal nostalgia that's a necessary catalyst to drive and sustain values in this hobby.

[Mephisto]

What I gathered from this thread is that pervy underground art got people hard while most but not all other pieces were soft and flaccid.