My NYCC report in regards to GA only

[blazingbob]

Ok, but even when I've given a buyer GPA they suddenly move to 90 or 12 month data numbers or come up with the 10 or 20% off GPA dance.

 

More and more I see that everybody wants to be "money" positive when they buy something.

 

Then you read the posts that dealers don't pay enough.

 

Which brings me back to something I've said before.

 

Some, some buyers want dealers to pay above retail and sell for wholesale.

 

 

 

 

[gregreece]

 

Some, some buyers want dealers to pay above retail and sell for wholesale.

 

 

 

 

Had that conversation with a "customer" this past weekend. Wanted to buy a graded X-Men #1 at 85% of current retail rate. I explained we pay upwards of 90% to get them. His response, "just sell it to me and make your profit on somebody else". Yes, he we serious.

[The_SandMan]

 

Some, some buyers want dealers to pay above retail and sell for wholesale.

 

 

 

 

Had that conversation with a "customer" this past weekend. Wanted to buy a graded X-Men #1 at 85% of current retail rate. I explained we pay upwards of 90% to get them. His response, "just sell it to me and make your profit on somebody else". Yes, he we serious.

 

 

typical D-bag

[Spiderturtle]

 

Some, some buyers want dealers to pay above retail and sell for wholesale.

 

 

 

 

Had that conversation with a "customer" this past weekend. Wanted to buy a graded X-Men #1 at 85% of current retail rate. I explained we pay upwards of 90% to get them. His response, "just sell it to me and make your profit on somebody else". Yes, he we serious.

 

As a collector, i think its fair to sell to a dealer at 5 percent to 10 percent off retail. I don't have to pay the 10 percent to the auction house. Also fair to buy at retail or slightly above. Builds a good relationship

[Sqeggs]

 

Some, some buyers want dealers to pay above retail and sell for wholesale.

 

 

 

 

Had that conversation with a "customer" this past weekend. Wanted to buy a graded X-Men #1 at 85% of current retail rate. I explained we pay upwards of 90% to get them. His response, "just sell it to me and make your profit on somebody else". Yes, he we serious.

 

Yipes!

 

From a buyer's perspective, I think it's fair to point out that dealers clearly have different strategies in selling high-dollar books, either because their financial resources differ or because they differ in their opinions of how to run a comic business.

 

Some dealers seem to try to move high-dollar books quickly, often buying with a particular customer in mind for a quick flip. Others seem willing to pay top dollar for books that they intend to hold until the cows come home. Others are going to hold books until the cows come home, take a shower, have dinner, watch a little TV, and take a long nap. In other words, they want books for their walls (or sites) and will only sell them if they can get not this year's price but 2020's price.

 

There's an old saying on Wall Street about an overvalued stock: "That price not only discounts the future, it discounts the hereafter."

 

I've had dealers turn down offers for books at prices above what the book is available for in that grade online. Not GPA, but an actual book for sale at a price the dealer wouldn't match plus, say, 5%. In other words, I was willing to pay a premium just to take the book home from a con rather than buy it online. Nothing wrong with a dealer declining to sell for whatever reason; it's the dealer's book. If he wants it sitting on his wall to attract customers. That's fine. If he paid a lot for it because he thinks he call sell it for his current (above FMV) asking price in a year or two or three or four, that's also fine.

 

My point is that just as dealers see many buyers as behaving oddly, buyers see many dealers as behaving oddly. In the end, though, buyers are going to buy what and how they feel like buying and sellers are going to sell what and how they feel like selling. The market is a beautiful thing!

[VintageComics]

 

Some, some buyers want dealers to pay above retail and sell for wholesale.

 

 

 

 

Had that conversation with a "customer" this past weekend. Wanted to buy a graded X-Men #1 at 85% of current retail rate. I explained we pay upwards of 90% to get them. His response, "just sell it to me and make your profit on somebody else". Yes, he we serious.

 

As a collector, i think its fair to sell to a dealer at 5 percent to 10 percent off retail. I don't have to pay the 10 percent to the auction house. Also fair to buy at retail or slightly above. Builds a good relationship

 

It's all going to be a matter of how quickly either you need the money or how quickly the dealer moves the book.

 

I generally wouldn't by a book at 5-10% of retail unless I had a customer specifically waiting in the wings for a copy.

 

In most cases, I wouldn't consider expecting a dealer to pay 5% of retail very fair and even 10% is questionable (although the book and the deal would have to be factored in).

 

An argument can be made for a book that is on a meaningful upward trajectory but that is the exception and not the rule.

 

 

[Bunky Brian]

 

Some, some buyers want dealers to pay above retail and sell for wholesale.

 

 

 

 

Had that conversation with a "customer" this past weekend. Wanted to buy a graded X-Men #1 at 85% of current retail rate. I explained we pay upwards of 90% to get them. His response, "just sell it to me and make your profit on somebody else". Yes, he we serious.

 

Yipes!

 

From a buyer's perspective, I think it's fair to point out that dealers clearly have different strategies in selling high-dollar books, either because their financial resources differ or because they differ in their opinions of how to run a comic business.

 

Some dealers seem to try to move high-dollar books quickly, often buying with a particular customer in mind for a quick flip. Others seem willing to pay top dollar for books that they intend to hold until the cows come home. Others are going to hold books until the cows come home, take a shower, have dinner, watch a little TV, and take a long nap. In other words, they want books for their walls (or sites) and will only sell them if they can get not this year's price but 2020's price.

 

There's an old saying on Wall Street about an overvalued stock: "That price not only discounts the future, it discounts the hereafter."

 

I've had dealers turn down offers for books at prices above what the book is available for in that grade online. Not GPA, but an actual book for sale at a price the dealer wouldn't match plus, say, 5%. In other words, I was willing to pay a premium just to take the book home from a con rather than buy it online. Nothing wrong with a dealer declining to sell for whatever reason; it's the dealer's book. If he wants it sitting on his wall to attract customers. That's fine. If he paid a lot for it because he thinks he call sell it for his current (above FMV) asking price in a year or two or three or four, that's also fine.

 

My point is that just as dealers see many buyers as behaving oddly, buyers see many dealers as behaving oddly. In the end, though, buyers are going to buy what and how they feel like buying and sellers are going to sell what and how they feel like selling. The market is a beautiful thing!

 

Well said, thread closed move on drop mic

[blazingbob]

"As a collector, i think its fair to sell to a dealer at 5 percent to 10 percent off retail. I don't have to pay the 10 percent to the auction house. Also fair to buy at retail or slightly above. Builds a good relationship"

 

That is called consignment and frankly I would rather a collector consign the book to me then having to write a check immediately and make 5-10%. From a business perspective there is no reason to tie up capital at 90-95% to make 5-10%. And I think that collectors underestimate how fast big ticket items sell. Sorry, That isn't my idea of a good relationship unless you are buying those books from me at full retail or above.

 

 

 

 

[jgallo]

"As a collector, i think its fair to sell to a dealer at 5 percent to 10 percent off retail. I don't have to pay the 10 percent to the auction house. Also fair to buy at retail or slightly above. Builds a good relationship"

 

That is called consignment and frankly I would rather a collector consign the book to me then having to write a check immediately and make 5-10%. That isn't my idea of a good relationship unless you are buying those books from me at full retail or above.

 

 

 

 

at 5-10% that would barely cover the costs and time of selling the book. Setting up at shows isn't cheap and it costs money and time. Some people value their time at a different level that others, but my time is worth more then 5-10%. Obviously it would depend on the book. If I can move a book worth 100K for 10% that is worth it but the typical couple hundred or even couple thousand dollar book isnt.

 

James G

[Bronty]

 

Some, some buyers want dealers to pay above retail and sell for wholesale.

 

Sure, some buyers are d-bags. So are some sellers.

 

I could flip around what you said about buyers wanting to be money positive and apply it to sellers too.

 

Collectors aren't the only ones that can cash out online; sellers can too. So why, if you are a seller why would you accept an offer 20% below FMV when you can also get 10% below FMV by sending to clink or what have you (just like the buyer can).

 

The existence of selling options affects both buyer and seller. Buyers are going to be less likely to sell to dealers when cashing out, and dealers aren't going to want to negotiate as much when selling.

 

The margin for you guys on this kind of stuff seems so thin. I don't know how someone starting out today could really make a go of it short of having a ton of staring inventory/capital or getting lucky/hustling to purchase collections way under FMV. What's your view on that? It just seems like buy for 90% sell for 110% and incur tons of costs to do it is a tough road.

[blazingbob]

"From a buyer's perspective, I think it's fair to point out that dealers clearly have different strategies in selling high-dollar books, either because their financial resources differ or because they differ in their opinions of how to run a comic business"

 

Here is my problem with this.

 

From many many convention, seller pricing, company threads there seems to be a lot of different buyers.

 

Using just CGC books as an example there are

 

Last GPA only buyer

90 day GPA Buyer

120 day GPA buyer

Overstreet price guide buyer

5-10% below last GPA

Comicpriceguide.com buyer

Ebay only buyer

Only buys if he/she can see the price buyer

 

I'm sure I'm leaving a category out but unless the buyer communicates with the seller/me I am running a buyer profile on what buyer they are when someone is standing in front of me. If they don't talk or won't even engage the seller I will continue to see the same convention posts on pricing, etc.

 

Just from the 8 categories above I would have a very difficult task of meeting those buyers expectations.

 

[thehumantorch]

 

Some, some buyers want dealers to pay above retail and sell for wholesale.

 

 

 

 

Had that conversation with a "customer" this past weekend. Wanted to buy a graded X-Men #1 at 85% of current retail rate. I explained we pay upwards of 90% to get them. His response, "just sell it to me and make your profit on somebody else". Yes, he we serious.

 

I've had similar buyers. Last guy offered me 50% of GPA on a key and when I turned him down he tried to sweeten the pot by offering to add a second key, also at 50% of GPA.

[Bronty]

the more you sell, the more I save

[sacentaur]

We all can come up with individual stories about good/bad buyers/sellers, but it's really overall long-term impressions and general reputations which probably affect our dealing habits the most.

 

As I noted in the other thread, dealers who consistently grossly overprice their books get an automatic pass from me. Marvel Comics 1 in 4.0 for $120,000? Uh, no thanks.

 

As the years go by, I find myself interacting with the same sellers whom I trust and who I can work with. Some price high and then give a healthy discount. Others price close to their margin and don't discount much (if at all). Either way, the bottom line is often the same.

 

Of all my dealer purchases, 98% comes from the same handful of sellers - the rest of the other guys, well they might as well be museums.

[blazingbob]

"I could flip around what you said about buyers wanting to be money positive and apply it to sellers too"

 

I believe in being 'FAIR"

 

However, each person has their own opinion of FAIR.

 

Some feel that they are being fair giving me a 3% discount, I don't do too much business with them anymore.

 

Some feel fair means I should discount 20%, take a credit card and extend time payments.

 

Some feel fair means I should take all of their minor keys so that they can get their holy grail.

 

Some feel fair means that I should take low grade for my high grade books.

 

 

[Bronty]

"I could flip around what you said about buyers wanting to be money positive and apply it to sellers too"

 

I believe in being 'FAIR"

 

However, each person has their own opinion of FAIR.

 

Some feel that they are being fair giving me a 3% discount, I don't do too much business with them anymore.

 

Some feel fair means I should discount 20%, take a credit card and extend time payments.

 

Some feel fair means I should take all of their minor keys so that they can get their holy grail.

 

Some feel fair means that I should take low grade for my high grade books.

 

 

I think you are assuming intent to my statement that wasn't there. I meant that sentence simply as a preamble to what followed next, that sellers have options too and it makes it harder to deal (in person).

[Knightsofold]

Here's my strategy as a con buyer.

 

Often my best possible purchace price will happen if I go after several books at once. Moving an above average amount of books at once. "What's your best price on all of these cash right now?"

Most dealers will ponder these longer than the usual negotiations for one hot book.

 

-if way off online marketprice ask why?

-this can usually lead to finding out which of the books are hardest to get a discount on.

(Maybe leave out that book).

-offer to buy at his price or a little above if he throws another book in. (Something harder to move or a book he's had for awhile)

-Offer what you think is fair market plus a 5-15% depending in total for the convienence factor of having these comics come to the con and being in front of you.

-or offer your fair price and try to throw in a book or so you might not want yo bother selling yourself.

 

After no agreement, ask if he has time to look at some books you brought to trade/sell. If he shows above interest in anything use that book/s to go back to the books you wanted and come ip with new number.

 

This approach has made me happy in the past. Doesn't always work at all and depends on doing a lot of homework on the dealer , both seller/buyers books online market price plus any con multiplier effecting scarcity/liquid of the books. Also your own bottom line must be well thought out on books you want to let go to a dealer vs selling online.

 

I'm pretty sure I lose $ everytime, but if I can fet the books I want and have a good time/buid relations with dealers then it's all good.

 

Haha sorry if this had way too much super boring process details.

 

[Bunky Brian]

"I could flip around what you said about buyers wanting to be money positive and apply it to sellers too"

 

I believe in being 'FAIR"

 

However, each person has their own opinion of FAIR.

 

Some feel that they are being fair giving me a 3% discount, I don't do too much business with them anymore.

 

Some feel fair means I should discount 20%, take a credit card and extend time payments.

 

Some feel fair means I should take all of their minor keys so that they can get their holy grail.

 

Some feel fair means that I should take low grade for my high grade books.

 

 

[Sqeggs]

I believe in being 'FAIR"

 

 

I only buy from dealers who are at least VG.

[drotto]

As a buyer who is new to the whole better key market, it is difficult to jump in and know who to trust, and who is willing to give a fair deal. I feel I have a good handle on the books that I am interested in, and am willing to deal. But if I walk up to a seller I have never dealt with, I have no clue if they are a good seller. I can easily see the price on the wall, and know where that falls based on my grading an my knowledge. If the price seems way over I view that as a non starter, when maybe I should not. How much is it worth starting negotiations with multiple people in those circumstances?

 

The other difficulty buying comics is the whole what is the grade business. I may be firmly convinced a book is a 6, while the seller is convinced it is a 7. That can make a monstrous difference in price. If two people see grading very differently, it may become impossible to bridge a price gap.

 

I just need to learn who to trust, but that is a very difficult thing to learn when I go to one or two cons per years, and do not know which posters here are which dealers in the real world.