General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[revat]

There's not much to nail down in terms of "regular rules" is there?

 

Typical rules...

 

1. in thread or PM by time stamp wins. All other negotiations can be trumped by All conditional "take it"s can be trumped by unconditional

2. Buyer pays actual shipping costs. Slabs go boxed priority mail. Raws go in padded, reinforced envelopes.

3. Payment via Paypal, 3% discount for check/MO.

 

beyond that... what's "typical"?

 

Payment expected in XXX amount of time, books will be shipped out in XXX amount of time after receipt of payment

 

#3 is nice but doesn't ring true for everyone.

 

Howabout internationals?

 

whats the return policy?

 

Ok this is getting tedious howabout everyone just lay out their own freaking terms it ain't that hard?

[VintageComics]

There's not much to nail down in terms of "regular rules" is there?

 

Typical rules...

 

1. in thread or PM by time stamp wins. All other negotiations can be trumped by All conditional "take it"s can be trumped by unconditional

2. Buyer pays actual shipping costs. Slabs go boxed priority mail. Raws go in padded, reinforced envelopes.

3. Payment via Paypal, 3% discount for check/MO.

 

beyond that... what's "typical"?

 

Well, here are a few issues that have risen out of the 'regular rules apply' posts:

 

1) Who gets the book in this case? PM unconditional or in the thread unconditional ? I understand time stamp should take priority but some people believe that in the thread takes precedence over in a PM (although I never understood that logic).

 

2) How about this? pending scan but then someone else takes it unconditionally?

 

I'm sure there are more but you get the idea.

 

Roy how about instead of having arch ban Regular rules, we come up with a sticky of rules that are the default sale rules. So that if someone says "regular rules apply" then they are held to that list. Of course anyone can copy/modify/or ignore those rules but they have to proactively do that. Thoughts?

This is a great idea. (thumbs u This would appease people that are lazy and don't want to write out their own rules while also allowing those that wish to write out their own rules do so.

 

I really like this.

 

Have a set of "regular rules" drafted and added to the selling forum rules officially by the moderators. If the seller posts in his sales thread that 'regular rules apply but doesn't stipulate those rules, then boardies are free to copy those rules into the sales thread, point to the selling thread rules posted by Arch and ask to confirm that these are the rules they are referring to.

 

If not, the seller is forced to make amendments to the rules on the spot so there is no confusion...but the posted rules are the automatic default until the seller states otherwise.

 

Seems to be the most elegant and painless solution so far and would eliminate a zillion headaches.

 

 

[topofthetotem]

All I know is my thread my rules.

 

I don't care what boardie A,B or C does in theirs.

[VintageComics]

There's not much to nail down in terms of "regular rules" is there?

 

Typical rules...

 

1. in thread or PM by time stamp wins. All other negotiations can be trumped by All conditional "take it"s can be trumped by unconditional

2. Buyer pays actual shipping costs. Slabs go boxed priority mail. Raws go in padded, reinforced envelopes.

3. Payment via Paypal, 3% discount for check/MO.

 

beyond that... what's "typical"?

 

Payment expected in XXX amount of time, books will be shipped out in XXX amount of time after receipt of payment

 

#3 is nice but doesn't ring true for everyone.

 

Howabout internationals?

 

whats the return policy?

 

Ok this is getting tedious howabout everyone just lay out their own freaking terms it ain't that hard?

 

Questions about return policy can be asked in the thread - we can't cover every possible rule.

 

What we are really trying to do is form a fair lineup for all those interested in the same book so that there is no confusion on who took the book. That is where most of the problems lie in the 'regular rules' phrase.

[VintageComics]

All I know is my thread my rules.

 

I don't care what boardie A,B or C does in theirs.

 

Sure, if you spell the rules out.

 

But if someone says 'regular rules' and don't spell them out, then nobody knows what they are - unless there is a default set of rules.

 

We've all seen the fights and arguments. We're just trying to make this place run more smoothly and eliminate problems for those sellers who don't post their rules clearly.

 

[Broke as a Joke]

Then you will get the people who say "regular rules but...or except..."

 

 

[VintageComics]

Then you will get the people who say "regular rules but...or except..."

 

 

Sure, but then at least you know what the rules are!

 

There's nothing wrong with not using the regular rules. It's just that 'regular rules' mean different things to different people, but if someone posts a list of the 'regular rules' from the Rules thread then they are forced to either accept those rules or change them. Either case is fine but in both cases at least there is no ambiguity.

 

It's the ambiguity that causes so many fights in selling threads.

 

 

[topofthetotem]

All I know is my thread my rules.

 

I don't care what boardie A,B or C does in theirs.

 

Sure, if you spell the rules out.

 

But if someone says 'regular rules' and don't spell them out, then nobody knows what they are - unless there is a default set of rules.

 

We've all seen the fights and arguments. We're just trying to make this place run more smoothly and eliminate problems for those sellers who don't post their rules clearly.

The place runs fine you just can't mitigate fanboy angst 100% of the time.

[miraclemet]

There's not much to nail down in terms of "regular rules" is there?

 

Typical rules...

 

1. in thread or PM by time stamp wins. All other negotiations can be trumped by All conditional "take it"s can be trumped by unconditional

2. Buyer pays actual shipping costs. Slabs go boxed priority mail. Raws go in padded, reinforced envelopes.

3. Payment via Paypal, 3% discount for check/MO.

 

beyond that... what's "typical"?

 

Payment expected in XXX amount of time, books will be shipped out in XXX amount of time after receipt of payment

 

#3 is nice but doesn't ring true for everyone.

 

Howabout internationals?

 

whats the return policy?

 

Ok this is getting tedious howabout everyone just lay out their own freaking terms it ain't that hard?

 

 

I agree nothing is going to ring true for everyone.. .just what the "regular" (or most common) rules are.

 

Do most discount for check/mo? If no, just say Payment via paypal.

 

Default rules rarely state payment due by date, and certainly there's no concensus.

The default rule is that the transaction should be completed in 30 days thats invoice, payment, ship and reciept.

 

What's typical for returns? All returns accepted with return shipping at the cost of the buyer? (I know some nice guys pay for both parts of shipping, but typically thats not the case)

[miraclemet]

Then you will get the people who say "regular rules but...or except..."

 

 

Sure, but then at least you know what the rules are!

 

There's nothing wrong with not using the regular rules. It's just that 'regular rules' mean different things to different people, but if someone posts a list of the 'regular rules' from the Rules thread then they are forced to either accept those rules or change them. Either case is fine but in both cases at least there is no ambiguity.

 

It's the ambiguity that causes so many fights in selling threads.

 

 

agreed, thats the point of this exercise.

[jaybuck43]

and now you know why I asked the question. There's lots to discuss. Should not selling to pl hosers be part of it as well? That's why I want to propose a set of conditions and vote on each one in committee line by line until we have a working finished draft. Then put that draft up to a board wide vote (say of 1 month) the committee is open to everyone to participate in with suggestions and votes until we have a final product

[miraclemet]

There's not much to nail down in terms of "regular rules" is there?

 

Typical rules...

 

1. in thread or PM by time stamp wins. All other negotiations can be trumped by All conditional "take it"s can be trumped by unconditional

2. Buyer pays actual shipping costs. Slabs go boxed priority mail. Raws go in padded, reinforced envelopes.

3. Payment via Paypal, 3% discount for check/MO.

 

beyond that... what's "typical"?

 

Well, here are a few issues that have risen out of the 'regular rules apply' posts:

 

1) Who gets the book in this case? PM unconditional or in the thread unconditional ? I understand time stamp should take priority but some people believe that in the thread takes precedence over in a PM (although I never understood that logic).

 

2) How about this? pending scan but then someone else takes it unconditionally?

 

I'm sure there are more but you get the idea.

 

Roy how about instead of having arch ban Regular rules, we come up with a sticky of rules that are the default sale rules. So that if someone says "regular rules apply" then they are held to that list. Of course anyone can copy/modify/or ignore those rules but they have to proactively do that. Thoughts?

This is a great idea. (thumbs u This would appease people that are lazy and don't want to write out their own rules while also allowing those that wish to write out their own rules do so.

 

I really like this.

 

Have a set of "regular rules" drafted and added to the selling forum rules officially by the moderators. If the seller posts in his sales thread that 'regular rules apply but doesn't stipulate those rules, then boardies are free to copy those rules into the sales thread, point to the selling thread rules posted by Arch and ask to confirm that these are the rules they are referring to.

 

If not, the seller is forced to make amendments to the rules on the spot so there is no confusion...but the posted rules are the automatic default until the seller states otherwise.

 

Seems to be the most elegant and painless solution so far and would eliminate a zillion headaches.

 

 

Yes there are lots of exceptions, but in terms of regular rules (common approaches) these seem to be common...

 

 

1. regular rules seem to be that PM take its are treated evenly with thread take its.

2. regular rules seem to be that conditional take its get usurped by unconditional ones (remember this is just to cover the sales thread where the seller posts "regular rules" and then posts a book with no scan, someone posts "take it pending scan" and second guy posts an unconditional take it. What seems to happen is the unconditional gets the book.

 

3. Oh and regular rule would be "No HOS/PL can buy"

[Buzzetta]

There's not much to nail down in terms of "regular rules" is there?

 

Typical rules...

 

1. in thread or PM by time stamp wins. All other negotiations can be trumped by All conditional "take it"s can be trumped by unconditional

2. Buyer pays actual shipping costs. Slabs go boxed priority mail. Raws go in padded, reinforced envelopes.

3. Payment via Paypal, 3% discount for check/MO.

 

beyond that... what's "typical"?

 

Well, here are a few issues that have risen out of the 'regular rules apply' posts:

 

1) Who gets the book in this case? PM unconditional or in the thread unconditional ? I understand time stamp should take priority but some people believe that in the thread takes precedence over in a PM (although I never understood that logic).

 

2) How about this? pending scan but then someone else takes it unconditionally?

 

I'm sure there are more but you get the idea.

 

Roy how about instead of having arch ban Regular rules, we come up with a sticky of rules that are the default sale rules. So that if someone says "regular rules apply" then they are held to that list. Of course anyone can copy/modify/or ignore those rules but they have to proactively do that. Thoughts?

This is a great idea. (thumbs u This would appease people that are lazy and don't want to write out their own rules while also allowing those that wish to write out their own rules do so.

 

I really like this.

 

Have a set of "regular rules" drafted and added to the selling forum rules officially by the moderators. If the seller posts in his sales thread that 'regular rules apply but doesn't stipulate those rules, then boardies are free to copy those rules into the sales thread, point to the selling thread rules posted by Arch and ask to confirm that these are the rules they are referring to.

 

If not, the seller is forced to make amendments to the rules on the spot so there is no confusion...but the posted rules are the automatic default until the seller states otherwise.

 

Seems to be the most elegant and painless solution so far and would eliminate a zillion headaches.

 

 

I agree with Roy here. We do not need to determine right now what the "regular rules" are but they should be eventually determined so that they are stickied and anytime someone simply claims regular rules then they are bound to that.

[Buzzetta]

and now you know why I asked the question. There's lots to discuss. Should not selling to pl hosers be part of it as well? That's why I want to propose a set of conditions and vote on each one in committee line by line until we have a working finished draft. Then put that draft up to a board wide vote (say of 1 month) the committee is open to everyone to participate in with suggestions and votes until we have a final product

 

I am with you on this. The first step is posting a thread to see who would want to be involved. From there, perhaps there should be some sort of suggestion process where those that want to be involved write down at least two things that are of absolute importance for them to see in the rules of a FS thread.

 

Everyone goes from there after we consolidate that list into a few statements.

[HarveySwick]

Symbiotic is back.

[Jimmy Linguini]

You got to admit, the guy really wants to be here

[Beige]

and now you know why I asked the question. There's lots to discuss. Should not selling to pl hosers be part of it as well? That's why I want to propose a set of conditions and vote on each one in committee line by line until we have a working finished draft. Then put that draft up to a board wide vote (say of 1 month) the committee is open to everyone to participate in with suggestions and votes until we have a final product

 

You seem a really genuine , nice guy with no ego to rub, or attention seeking attributes, so I feel I can say this, and you will take it the right way.

 

Committee's? Line decisions?

 

99.9% of sales pass of without incident. Piling more and more rules on top of rules - decided by people who just have to be on the 'top-table committee' just complicates things.

 

This last scenario came about because the guy was steaming drunk when he sold his book well below the perceived market value.

 

He was happy with the price, and went through with the deal. This seems to be more about the one's that didn't post the unconditional before the one stating "pending scans".

 

People have been posting the 'pending' option pretty much everytime someone posts and can't put pics up for a few hours - and always because the book is cheap.

 

We don't need any more rules, and we certainly don't need an unelected committee to decide what is best for everyone else.

 

Besides, if I'm being brutally honest, the 'invite by PM' forum has a sales market which will grow quite quickly as more and more boardies head over there.

 

Plus Mr Borocks, if he decides to have one on his.

 

Why can't it just be left as is, and deal with any individual problems that may occur.

 

As usual, neither buyer or seller of the book in question is on this thread complaining about anything, so why does anyone else have to be involved?

 

Like I said Jay, you seem a really nice guy, and this isn't aimed at you in any way, but if it ain't really broke, do we need unelected committee's to fix imaginary breakages?

 

[Buzzetta]

...This seems to be more about the one's that didn't post the unconditional before the one stating "pending scans".

 

People have been posting the 'pending' option pretty much everytime someone posts and can't put pics up for a few hours - and always because the book is cheap.

 

We don't need any more rules, and we certainly don't need an unelected committee to decide what is best for everyone else.

 

Besides, if I'm being brutally honest, the 'invite by PM' forum has a sales market which will grow quite quickly as more and more boardies head over there.

 

Plus Mr Borocks, if he decides to have one on his...

 

 

It is a little more than that. Others privately mentioned it to me how frustrating it is to see vague rules and in those cases wanting to throw in a sign, but do not want to stir the pot. This discussion has arisen over my initial raising of the issue. If you look over that thread, I posted something before the scans of the book were posted. I changed my for a clarification of what are the 'regular rules'. If I wanted to be a royal pain, I could have left the unconditional and claimed it for myself citing 'regular rules' that I believe to be in my favor. Spider-fein could have then cited that no such rule existed and that the book was technically on hold until he sees pics. I avoided what I perceived to be a potential hot mess of a thread all together and decided to raise the issue here.

 

Sellers need to have some form of rules in their sales thread. That I believe everyone agrees on. If someone is going to cite 'regular rules' then I want to know what those regular rules are. This is not an isolated case.

 

As far as the sales threads through PM that are going on. While not invited to many at all, it's a shame and a loss on the seller's part. I do not readily disclose what books I am looking for unless I cannot find them at all which leads me to pick up GA and SA books that few know I would be interested in buying. I have cash on hand, a history of paying immediately and make no demands on sellers whatsoever. If those sellers want to limit their prospective buyers by excluding me and others then so be it. As I stated about the ASM 6, I rescinded my claim as I did not want to deal with board drama. For a couple of hundred it is not worth the aggravation. There are and will continue to be other 'cool books.'

 

But Beige, I would like to believe that from what you know of me, this is not a sour grapes situation that I did not get the book. I believe that had I left my claim, with a push and a fight (if it came to that) I would have received it. This is an issue where I want to know what the rules are on the playing field as it does not seem to be isolated to the ASM 6 thread but quite a few of them.

[Beige]

I don't, for one second Andrew, think you are the, "krap, I missed a deal" type of boardie - and "I'm going to moan about it."

 

You aren't that kind of guy - in fact, I would go to far as to say you are one of the most level-headed members of this forum.

 

My major point - and it's the pertinent point, is that neither seller or buyer is in this thread complaining.

 

Spidey was pissed out of his mind. He offered a book at 30% off - you were just slower than the 1st guy.

 

That my only point. It's not aimed at you, Spidey or the buyer.

 

It is what it is.

 

This was a once or twice a year event of a boardie with a nice book, drunk as a lord, giving it away for a huge discount.

 

Congrats to the buyer.

 

Maybe, it will be you next time. Maybe not.

 

It certainly doesn't need a committee to discuss it.

 

My post goes no deeper than that.

[Buzzetta]

I don't, for one second Andrew, think you are the, "krap, I missed a deal" type of boardie - and "I'm going to moan about it."

 

You aren't that kind of guy - in fact, I would go to far as to say you are one of the most level-headed members of this forum.

 

My major point - and it's the pertinent point, is that neither seller or buyer is in this thread complaining.

 

Spidey was pissed out of his mind. He offered a book at 30% off - you were just slower than the 1st guy.

 

That my only point. It's not aimed at you, Spidey or the buyer.

 

It is what it is.

 

This was a once or twice a year event of a boardie with a nice book, drunk as a lord, giving it away for a huge discount.

 

Congrats to the buyer.

 

Maybe, it will be you next time. Maybe not.

 

It certainly doesn't need a committee to discuss it.

 

My post goes no deeper than that.

 

 

And believe me I appreciate you saying that. There is a LOT that gets lost around here because we see nothing but text from one another.

 

The thing is, if we go by "regular rules" then was he quicker than I was? I originally posted an unconditional before the the OP posted pics of the book. Fein's claim grabbed the book pending pics. My interpretation of regular rules would have been that my would have muscled through his claim. I never deleted my I edited it out to question the OP what regular rules were instead to demonstrate that I was indeed present before the pics were published to raise the issue as to what these "regular rules are"

 

I have seen regular rules to imply that a take it in thread no matter a time stamp can trump a pm take it.

I have seen regular rules to imply that even if a book is on hold in PM or whatever the full deal with that was, then the book can still be grabbed.

 

Please do not mistake my desire for less confusion with one for more moderation. If sellers are posting 'regular rules apply' when we have no set of regular rules then I don't know what the deal is.