Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[Prince Namor]

1 minute ago, drotto said:

I think something that hurts GN sales here is how they are presented and organized.  The GN always emphasize a story arc but give to clear indication where it falls in the MU time line.   When things are read out of order you lose context, meaning, and the threads that lead from one story to the next.

 

Now take Manga for example.  They are essentially GNs, but each is clearly marked where it fits in. Now clearly GN have the advantage that bookstore and retailers will carry them, but give readers guidance as to where to start and where to go next. The more I think about it, they should adopt similarly distribution methods to Manga.  I know that would kill us as collects but would adress many concensus listed above.

 

1. Stop the renumbered and reboot issue.

2. Get us away from these damn deconstructed stories where issue have nothing happening.  It is clear Marvel is writing everything as if it where a GN and selling us individual chapters as monthly floppies.

3. Mini series may be better excepted as one off GN stories.

4. Annals would likely die off.

5. With much different work flow for the creative teams you could hopefully keep teams together longer, and keep the A list people working.

And it's not surprising... even before this diversity outrage.... Marvel lagged behind in sales for tpb's compared to others. DC easily out paces them, (and they number their tpb's as a part of a group).. the New 52 Batman tpbs in particular still sell, and of course Watchmen.

But the #1 Book seller for Diamond the last few years has been IMAGE COMICS. More diverse stories, no events, numbered tpbs.... I still consistently sell tpb's of Walking Dead, Saga, Wicked and Divine, Manhattan Projects, Southern Bastards... nothing sells consistently like that of the Marvel tpbs. Not even close. 

It's obvious, that Marvel desire to continue to EVENT the hobby to death, to the point of not caring about continuity or story, something that benefits a tpb and it's consistent sales.... is a bigger detriment to their sales than having a black female make her own Iron Man suit.

[CAHokie]

1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

I agree completely. I can tell someone, "If you jump off that bridge, you will fall into the water and drown." and show them all of the facts and the proof and statistics and previous examples and everything else.... but if they've been brainwashed to do it, or completely convinced to do it, or are just plain stubborn or overly proud, they will still jump off that bridge.

Totally agree. 

But, I will say, as a retailer, anyone who comes into the store complaining about 'female Thor' or 'sista Iron Man' (two of Marvel's best selling regular monthly titles, I'll remind everyone again), I ALWAYS ask.... "Were you reading it before the change?"

And I swear to god, on my life, NO ONE has ever said yes.

Kookie.

That is a publisher's dream! It's surprising to hear that about DC, as since Rebirth, we've seen a lot of people excited and interested in those titles, but still slowly curbing, HOW MANY they get, as DC continues to try and glut more and more (another annoying trait the big 2 regularly use).

Marvel sales in our store have been going down since our first year. The complaints I get the most are

1. nothing happening in the book

2. the same stuff happening in the book

3. rebooted again???

4. Another mini-series?

5. An Annual?

6. The art sucks.

My most consistent Marvel seller is Thor. Had the same number of people on it the first year I opened as I do now. Amazing Spider-man still sells the most copies, but it's numbers are slightly down.

See, that's the problem. Is Rebirth really good? I honestly didn't know that until you said it because I stopped after yet another relaunch. I would have most likely kept my DC subscriptions if they hadn't have did that. Same with Marvel. After rebooting and rebooting I was like wth! Didn't they renumber spidergwen after like issue 4 or something? That's weak as can be...

[kav]

12 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

What statement are they making?

That superheroes can be more than just white males? They've been making that statement since the 60's. 

Seems to me it's the fans who are the Social Justice Wimps crying about how their precious men in tights aren't represented to their specifications. 

Its Social Justice they're crying for... that makes THEM the SJW's. "We want what's fair!" Grow up. They're cartoon characters.

And Marvel has hardly lost 'half' their 'clientele' - they're down 2% in market share from last year and 7% in unit share from last year - which is pretty much in line with the industry as a whole right now. The COMICS industry.

In OTHER media, owned by Marvel, where they've 'diversified', the MOVIES and TV, with their BLACK Nick Fury (a huge central part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe) and WHITE FEMALE Ancient One and BLACK Heimdall and WHITE Iron Fist and BLACK Night Nurse... they've had monsterous success that is unparalleled with any sequelled film universe EVER in the history of movies. 

So, no. They haven't lost a damn thing. 

That little, tiny, niche publishing part of the Marvel Empire, which is down 5%, isn't going to make or break the company. They're making plenty of money. 

I said it before-if you don't get it you don't get it.  Everyone else does.  

[ComicConnoisseur]

2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

We CAN, and we WILL, because despite FACTS, people have a tendency to stick to their beliefs

I got this from an unknown source.

Research in psychology and communications has shown that people prefer to read and listen to information that supports their prior beliefs rather than information that contradicts those beliefs. This is called "selective exposure" 
because individuals select to expose themselves to information that is in line with what they already believe to be true.

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, CAHokie said:

See, that's the problem. Is Rebirth really good? I honestly didn't know that until you said it because I stopped after yet another relaunch. I would have most likely kept my DC subscriptions if they hadn't have did that. Same with Marvel. After rebooting and rebooting I was like wth! Didn't they renumber spidergwen after like issue 4 or something? That's weak as can be...

Yes they did, despite the fact it was one of their best selling titles at the time. They're nuts...

[Prince Namor]

7 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I got this from an unknown source.

Research in psychology and communications has shown that people prefer to read and listen to information that supports their prior beliefs rather than information that contradicts those beliefs. This is called "selective exposure" 
because individuals select to expose themselves to information that is in line with what they already believe to be true.

Yep.

See I do the opposite. I break down my beliefs as incorrect until I can't. I listen to rebuttals and debate.

I use critical reasoning skills. Try not to get caught up in emotion.

Nostalgia, memory, and beliefs?

That's like heroin to enlightenment.

[Get Marwood & I]

5 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

17 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I got this from an unknown source.

Research in psychology and communications has shown that people prefer to read and listen to information that supports their prior beliefs rather than information that contradicts those beliefs. This is called "selective exposure" 
because individuals select to expose themselves to information that is in line with what they already believe to be true.

Yep.

See I do the opposite. I break down my beliefs as incorrect until I can't. I listen to rebuttals and debate.

I use critical reasoning skills. Try not to get caught up in emotion.

Nostalgia, memory, and beliefs?

That's like heroin to enlightenment.

 

Meanwhile, Marvel's sales are falling because their comics are a pile of shit. 

[kav]

12 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Yep.

See I do the opposite. I break down my beliefs as incorrect until I can't. I listen to rebuttals and debate.

I use critical reasoning skills. Try not to get caught up in emotion.

Nostalgia, memory, and beliefs?

That's like heroin to enlightenment.

Everybody says this.  Nobody does it.

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, kav said:

16 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Yep.

See I do the opposite. I break down my beliefs as incorrect until I can't. I listen to rebuttals and debate.

I use critical reasoning skills. Try not to get caught up in emotion.

Nostalgia, memory, and beliefs?

That's like heroin to enlightenment.

Everybody says this.  Nobody does it.

 

Meanwhile......

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, kav said:

I said it before-if you don't get it you don't get it.  Everyone else does.  

The ultimate troll statement! "Everyone?' LOL.

No. 'Everyone' else DOESN'T. There are plenty of people I've had private conversations throughout this thread with who understand exactly what I'm saying, but don't want to get caught up in the negative light of people like you who want to turn this into "Everyone & Kav' vs any sort of intelligent discussion about it. AND there's even been a few people here who have fearlessly agreed with some of my positions.

What is completely apparent is that YOU don't get it. I have no idea what 'Everyone' else thinks. 

YOU. DON'T. GET. IT.

Despite the facts, despite the history, despite what is there.

All you have is what conservative radio has convinced you is the conspiracy going on in America. Take off your tin foil hat, Mr. SJW... stop being a 'snowflake' and look at the facts.

Marvel has ALWAYS tried to diversify. Marvel WILL always try and diversify. 

They are a corporation. YOU DIVERSIFY YOUR PRODUCT.

Budweiser, Michelob, Busch Beer.... they're not going out and making a ton of NEW named beers....

They ARE however making Bud Light, Bud Lime, Bud Ice, Michelob Light, Michelob Dark, Busch Light, etc.

Why?

DIVERSIFICATION. NAME recognition. Brand Loyalty. Reach as many markets as you can. Sell to as many people as you can.

I got this Budweiser to sell you!

Too filling! Try Bud Light!

Don't Like the taste! Try Bud Lime!

Not... cold enough? Try Bud Ice!

Don't like Beer? We also bottle water!

We got you covered true believer!

Jimimny Freakin' Christmas on Popsicle Stick... it's SOOOOOOO basic in it's understanding, I can't believe someone can't see it.

Then again, yes I can.

 

[kav]

Just now, Chuck Gower said:

The ultimate troll statement! "Everyone?' LOL.

No. 'Everyone' else DOESN'T. There are plenty of people I've had private conversations throughout this thread with who understand exactly what I'm saying, but don't want to get caught up in the negative light of people like you who want to turn this into "Everyone & Kav' vs any sort of intelligent discussion about it. AND there's even been a few people here who have fearlessly agreed with some of my positions.

What is completely apparent is that YOU don't get it. I have no idea what 'Everyone' else thinks. 

YOU. DON'T. GET. IT.

Despite the facts, despite the history, despite what is there.

All you have is what conservative radio has convinced you is the conspiracy going on in America. Take off your tin foil hat, Mr. SJW... stop being a 'snowflake' and look at the facts.

Marvel has ALWAYS tried to diversify. Marvel WILL always try and diversify. 

They are a corporation. YOU DIVERSIFY YOUR PRODUCT.

Budweiser, Michelob, Busch Beer.... they're not going out and making a ton of NEW named beers....

They ARE however making Bud Light, Bud Lime, Bud Ice, Michelob Light, Michelob Dark, Busch Light, etc.

Why?

DIVERSIFICATION. NAME recognition. Brand Loyalty. Reach as many markets as you can. Sell to as many people as you can.

I got this Budweiser to sell you!

Too filling! Try Bud Light!

Don't Like the taste! Try Bud Lime!

Not... cold enough? Try Bud Ice!

Don't like Beer? We also bottle water!

We got you covered true believer!

Jimimny Freakin' Christmas on Popsicle Stick... it's SOOOOOOO basic in it's understanding, I can't believe someone can't see it.

Then again, yes I can.

 

Settle down Beavis.

[Prince Namor]

3 minutes ago, kav said:

Everybody says this.  Nobody does it.

Another troll comment.

You have proof? 'Everybody' and 'Nobody'

I'm talking about ME.

How is it you know what everyone else is doing?

Do you mean YOU?

Or is this your, what you think is a sly way of saying I don't?

Either way, once again of no use to the conversation.

[kav]

Just now, Chuck Gower said:

Another troll comment.

You have proof? 'Everybody' and 'Nobody'

I'm talking about ME.

How is it you know what everyone else is doing?

Do you mean YOU?

Or is this your, what you think is a sly way of saying I don't?

Either way, once again of no use to the conversation.

Simple psychology.  Everyone yes EVERYONE thinks they are reasonable an RIGHT.  And, OBJECTIVE.  It's the other guy who-

[Prince Namor]

2 minutes ago, kav said:

Settle down Beavis.

It's ok Kav. You're 'popular'. People 'like' you. You're a part of the 'community' here.

You fall in line with what 'everyone' thinks and you 'fit in'.

I'm not threatening that... stay strong on your thought process here. It'll be ok.

 

[Prince Namor]

1 minute ago, kav said:

Simple psychology.  Everyone yes EVERYONE thinks they are reasonable an RIGHT.  And, OBJECTIVE.  It's the other guy who-

Never said I was reasonable OR right. OR Objective.

Trolls always put words in other peoples mouths and create an illusion of what they 'think' someone is saying.

Bizarre.

Why not comment 'specifically' on what is said, ya know, like in a conversation or debate?

Why make up your own conversation to reply to?

That's just.... weird.

[kav]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

It's ok Kav. You're 'popular'. People 'like' you. You're a part of the 'community' here.

You fall in line with what 'everyone' thinks and you 'fit in'.

I'm not threatening that... stay strong on your thought process here. It'll be ok.

 

It seems that people who care what others think always level this accusation at me.  If nothing else I think my posts demonstrate overwhelmingly that I do not care what others think about me.  Never have.

[Prince Namor]

Just now, kav said:

It seems that people who care what others think always level this accusation at me.  If nothing else I think my posts demonstrate overwhelmingly that I do not care what others think about me.  Never have.

Yes you do. Your neediness to be liked by what you 'perceive' to be the 'community' of this place is grotesque.

[kav]

Just now, Chuck Gower said:

Never said I was reasonable OR right. OR Objective.

Trolls always put words in other peoples mouths and create an illusion of what they 'think' someone is saying.

Bizarre.

Why not comment 'specifically' on what is said, ya know, like in a conversation or debate?

Why make up your own conversation to reply to?

That's just.... weird.

Here's what's weird-why are you arguing with a troll?  Because, you know that you just call people trolls when they argue with you.  It's sort of a last ditch effort thing.  I did comment specifically you must have missed it in your rush to pound them keys.

[kav]

1 minute ago, Chuck Gower said:

Yes you do. Your neediness to be liked by what you 'perceive' to be the 'community' of this place is grotesque.

Yes I obviously want to be liked by you

[Prince Namor]

4 minutes ago, kav said:

Here's what's weird-why are you arguing with a troll?  Because, you know that you just call people trolls when they argue with you.  

I'm not arguing with you. You don't have anything to say except your snide little remarks. You have 36,000+ posts of NOTHING of use to this board.

And PROVE that I call 'people' trolls when they argue with me. Show me proof. 

You WON'T, because you CAN'T. because it isn't true. But that won't stop you from saying it. You've shown that time and time again.

4 minutes ago, kav said:

 

It's sort of a last ditch effort thing.  I did comment specifically you must have missed it in your rush to pound them keys.

Pound the keys?

You far out pace me on here.