Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[Prince Namor]

2 minutes ago, Readcomix said:

I understand the argument about creators and ownership. I love my Destroyer Duck #1, and My Fantasy Quarterly #1. I grabbed Captain Victory and Starslayer and Ms Mystic and Elementals and Grendel and Justice Machine off the racks as they came out. 

But Disney seems to know how to get creators to create new Disney-owned characters.

Surely there has to be some middle ground between corporate comics never seeing a new character, and creators bringing their fresh new concepts to life only at small, independent publishers. 

Well... part of it is MARVEL doesn't really want them to create a new character...

Marvel dominates the partnership in the work place, so keeping things civil means paiting within the lines.

[Prince Namor]

10 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Why not just call her Iron Woman or Iron Girl? You know like there is a Batman, Batwoman and Batgirl?

That probably would have been a lot simpler and had great sales.

I can see it now Iron Woman #1 with 5 shiny metallic variants.  I would have bought it.

So then we have Tony Stark as Iron Man and the brand new Iron Girl!  

PLUS.... it's been done before. Everyone would then complain that Marvel keeps doing the same old thing.

[World Devourer]

On 02/04/2017 at 11:55 PM, ComicConnoisseur said:

When they canceled Amazing Spider-Man and Uncanny X-Men that showed me they didn't care about long term fans like me. All they seem to care about is selling that shiny new number one with multiple variants.

I was just talking about this very thing on the Most valuable Modern variants thread.

[Readcomix]

1 minute ago, Chuck Gower said:

Well... part of it is MARVEL doesn't really want them to create a new character...

Marvel dominates the partnership in the work place, so keeping things civil means paiting within the lines.

THAT is a sad and unfortunate truth....more competition would be healthier for creativity, whatever publishing formats comics exist in going forward. (Paper, digital, telepathy, etc)

[Readcomix]

6 minutes ago, World Devourer said:

I was just talking about this very thing on the Most valuable Modern variants thread.

This is the root problem. Alienating long-time fans is not very...wait for it, Mr Gabriel...inclusive....

[World Devourer]

2 hours ago, Readcomix said:

This is the root problem. Alienating long-time fans is not very...wait for it, Mr Gabriel...inclusive....

Exactly. Kevin Feige of Marvel Studios talks about not alienating long-time Marvel fans and yet that is what the publishing arm continues to do.

[World Devourer]

2 hours ago, Readcomix said:

THAT is a sad and unfortunate truth....more competition would be healthier for creativity, whatever publishing formats comics exist in going forward. (Paper, digital, telepathy, etc)

I would expect more original on-line content in future. With both Dark Horse and Image now expecting creators to demonstrate both writing AND art, there is a case to just publish on-line and charge readers a small fee per issue.

I already have an idea and written bible on hand - just require an artist.

[chrisco37]

12 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

This is perhaps the reason why a lot of Marvel's tpb sales aren't as high as Image and DC's. 

Marvel's focus seems to be more on the buy the issue at $3.99 or (event priced at $4.99, $5.99, $9.99) where they make the most money.

tpb's are almost an after thought.

Which is bad thinking, but more in line with Marvel's thought process that it's the characters that sell it and not the stories. DC and Image have proven otherwise.

Jumping back a few pages to this above post, I'll give you my perspective on this...

As you mentioned, a good number of readers have dropped the monthlies and read "new" stuff via TPB.  I'm one of those types of readers.  Years ago, I used to have probably 15+/- titles on my pull list.   I'm down to 2 (Goon and DK3 - one is limited series and the other is published a few times a year). 

I still like reading new stuff, but don't like the price per issue or the hassle of bagging/boarding this stuff every month.   I prefer the trade.  For the most part, you get a story arc in one spot without the hassle.   So, I'm always on the hunt for "good stories".  

Marvel TPB's, in general, seem to be priced much higher than the DC or Image.   Image TPB's are $9.99 (for the Vol 1 trade) and then something like $14.99 afterward.   DC's are similarly priced (maybe $16.99 for Batman, their premier character).    A buddy of mine told me that "Unworthy Thor" was really good and I should check it out.   The trade for that was either $19.99 or $24.99.    I'm not paying essentially the same price for a collected issue as you would for the individuals.   The trades should be cheaper. 

[FineCollector]

A random thought... What would happen if Marvel put out their slower selling titles quarterly, rather than monthly?  Direct to tpb format, as it were.  You and i call them graphic novels, but if they get the same distribution as trades, would people still buy it, or does there have to be a monthly to convince them it's good enough to read?

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, chrisco37 said:

Jumping back a few pages to this above post, I'll give you my perspective on this...

As you mentioned, a good number of readers have dropped the monthlies and read "new" stuff via TPB.  I'm one of those types of readers.  Years ago, I used to have probably 15+/- titles on my pull list.   I'm down to 2 (Goon and DK3 - one is limited series and the other is published a few times a year). 

I still like reading new stuff, but don't like the price per issue or the hassle of bagging/boarding this stuff every month.   I prefer the trade.  For the most part, you get a story arc in one spot without the hassle.   So, I'm always on the hunt for "good stories".  

Marvel TPB's, in general, seem to be priced much higher than the DC or Image.   Image TPB's are $9.99 (for the Vol 1 trade) and then something like $14.99 afterward.   DC's are similarly priced (maybe $16.99 for Batman, their premier character).    A buddy of mine told me that "Unworthy Thor" was really good and I should check it out.   The trade for that was either $19.99 or $24.99.    I'm not paying essentially the same price for a collected issue as you would for the individuals.   The trades should be cheaper. 

+1. They are priced higher.

Last year, Marvel put out a second volume of She-Hulk, collecting Byrne's return on the book (She-Hulk 31-46, 48-50) at 464 pages with whopping price tag of $39.99!

Compare that to DC putting out Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol Collected Edition (424 pages) for $29.99 or the DC's 52 Weeks collected edition at 584 PAGES (!) for $29.99.

Or even the Walking Dead Compendium's at 1,088 pages for $59.99.

[Ken Aldred]

A bullet I dodged when I stopped buying from Previews and the LCS back in 2010.  It was only a short time after this, maybe a year or so, when Marvel hiked up their reprint prices to near enough parity between individual issues and trade paperbacks.  They also added an extra $20 to Marvel Masterworks, raising them from $50 to $70 and, as much as I can understand the need to cover remastering costs, with many of them excellent quality, simply too expensive for me.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[ComicConnoisseur]

3 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

A bullet I dodged when I stopped buying from Previews and the LCS back in 2010.  It was only a short time after this, maybe a year or so, when Marvel hiked up their reprint prices to near enough parity between individual issues and trade paperbacks.  They also added an extra $20 to Marvel Masterworks, raising them from $50 to $70 and, as much as I can understand the need to cover remastering costs, with many of them excellent quality, simply too expensive for me.

You should check Amazon from time to time, as they sell certain digital Marvel Masterworks between $2.99 to $9.99. I bought a whole bunch them around Black Friday. The Spider-Man and many other digital Masterworks are going for $8.50 on Amazon right now,normally these are $29.99 plus at LCS.

My Kindle Fire is loaded with copper,bronze and silver age goodness! Re-reading them showed me how cool Marvel Comics once was. 

[Get Marwood & I]

I watched the first episode of the new Dr Who season on Saturday. It introduced the new assistant and we therefore had to do the new companion meets Doctor / TARDIS is bigger on the inside etc routine for what must be the 99th time in the shows history. It was the most refreshing take I had seen in many years. It proved to me that it is possible to reinvent and retell an old story in a fresh, new and exciting way.

If Marvel did that - retell the old tried and tested tales but in a new, fresh, relevant way, we might be OK. But I still maintain that even if they did this, sorted out the price and availability (newsstands), and stuck with a lower number of titles with some long term continuity we still wouldn't see sales recover through youngsters. Only we would buy them more.

I could be wrong of course...

 

[chrisco37]

13 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

If Marvel did that - retell the old tried and tested tales but in a new, fresh, relevant way, we might be OK

That's what they did with the Ultimate line.   And it was good for awhile.  The first 40 or so issues of Ultimate Spidey were fantastic.  After that, it was hit or miss depending on the arc.   But, heck, even the USM version of the "Clone Saga" was really good.  The Ultimates Vol 1 & 2 were great (and really the basis for the Avengers movies). 

[Gatsby77]

11 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

That's what they did with the Ultimate line.   And it was good for awhile.  The first 40 or so issues of Ultimate Spidey were fantastic.  After that, it was hit or miss depending on the arc.   But, heck, even the USM version of the "Clone Saga" was really good.  The Ultimates Vol 1 & 2 were great (and really the basis for the Avengers movies). 

Agreed.

The Ultmate line was the coolest (and arguably, most ambitious) thing Marvel did in a generation. And it worked for a solid 5+ years. I'd add Ulitmate FF 1-24 and a slew of the minis to the mix.

Also, The Ultimates mini is arguably one of the most influential Marvel stories of the last 20 years, as it gave us the Samuel L. Jackson-based Nick Fury.

 

Separately, I don't begrudge Marvel doing whatever they think they need to do to stay afloat, given that this generation of youngsters don't read comics.

I'm nearly 40 & haven't bought monthly books in a decade (since about Wolverine vol. 2 started & the whole Captain America death/Bucky Brubaker run), so I _really_ can't judge.

[F For Fake]

That's interesting, I was just wondering today if the Ultimate books would ever be looked at as the modern equivalent of New Universe, just because I always find them clogging up bargain bins. Every dollar and 50 cent box in the country seems to be overstuffed with Ultimate stuff. I never read any of it, so I personally don't have a dog in the race, just my observation as a buyer.

Edited April 18, 2017 by F For Fake

[Ken Aldred]

The early Ultimate books were very good.

Joe Quesada's Marvel of the 2000s is missed and there's much to be learned and, maybe, hopefully one day reapplied from his tenure back then.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[kav]

I loved the Ultimates but when Steve Rogers told Hank to walk away when he was talking to his wife I wish he had replied 'I'm sorry but this is America where two consenting adults are allowed to speak to each other maybe you thought this was some other country Captain Nazi'.  ZING

[Ken Aldred]

It all went pear-shaped later on with absolute toss such as Jeph Loeb's Ultimatum.

[kav]

yup