Hidden messages in X-Men Gold #1 (?) 1 1

[kav]

28 minutes ago, shadroch said:

 

 

It's okay for the writer to bring his political views into a storyline but not for an artist?

The guy made reference to his religions sacred text. Boo hoo. What an outrage. The WWE subverts one of the most sacred Biblical text, John 3-16, and people eat it up.

He did something that offended people. Kind of like when Simon and Kirby were offending German Americans back before the USofA entered the war?

Do I agree with what he said? No, but I don't understand the hatred towards him.  This is America, where people have the right to unpopular opinions.

Most Americans wouldn't even realize that 212 means December 2, as we write it 12-2.   Before you are outraged about a Koran verse about Muslems not being friends with Jews, go read the New Testament where Jesus is berated for helping a non-Jew., or early Christian discussions over if the words of Jesus were for all or just for Jews.

 

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Its the cornerstone of Free speech. Without it, America joins the League of Lesser Nations.

So if he made pro-NAMBLA hidden messages that would be free speech and ok in your book?

[Juno Beach]

Even as a Canadian I realize freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences for that speech. 

[kav]

yup.  common misunderstanding.

[Lucky Baru]

1 hour ago, shadroch said:

 

 

It's okay for the writer to bring his political views into a storyline but not for an artist?

The guy made reference to his religions sacred text. Boo hoo. What an outrage. The WWE subverts one of the most sacred Biblical text, John 3-16, and people eat it up.

He did something that offended people. Kind of like when Simon and Kirby were offending German Americans back before the USofA entered the war?

Do I agree with what he said? No, but I don't understand the hatred towards him.  This is America, where people have the right to unpopular opinions.

Most Americans wouldn't even realize that 212 means December 2, as we write it 12-2.   Before you are outraged about a Koran verse about Muslems not being friends with Jews, go read the New Testament where Jesus is berated for helping a non-Jew., or early Christian discussions over if the words of Jesus were for all or just for Jews.

 

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Its the cornerstone of Free speech. Without it, America joins the League of Lesser Nations.

He has the right to express himself from Governmental interference.  That's what freedom of speech is about.  It isn't about an artist slipping in his own views into a comic publisher's product.  That isn't a Right guaranteed in the Constitution.  He did something that "harmed" another entity's product.  That is why Marvel is allowed to discipline him for his actions.

[Lazyboy]

8 hours ago, Doc McCoy said:

Meanwhile speculators are going gaga over the book, since they are expecting a recall (which Marvel doesn't mention at this point), so either way, Marvel is making money.

Marvel already made their money from this book. Nothing that happens now will give Marvel another cent from (the first printing of) this issue.

And it's far too late for a "recall" to be anything but a publicity stunt. Not a single copy will be returned if it happens.

[shadroch]

Just now, Lucky Baru said:

He has the right to express himself from Governmental interference.  That's what freedom of speech is about.  It isn't about an artist slipping in his own views into a comic publisher's product.  That isn't a Right guaranteed in the Constitution.  He did something that "harmed" another entity's product.  That is why Marvel is allowed to discipline him for his actions.

I think Marvel shouldn't give him any more work if they choose not to. I don't think he or Marvel owes anyone an apology or the book need to be recalled.

As far as comparing a religious text to something from nambla, that's just kav being kav. Take it for whatever its worth.

What harm has he done the product? People are talking about it, and if anything it seems to be selling better. What harm has Marvel or Disney suffered?

[shadroch]

Freedom of speech is more than just protection from the government, it also means protection from mobs.

[Lucky Baru]

2 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Freedom of speech is more than just protection from the government, it also means protection from mobs.

No, it is protection from the Government.  The Constitution is about the Rights the Government cannot take away from the Citizenry.

7 minutes ago, shadroch said:

I think Marvel shouldn't give him any more work if they choose not to. I don't think he or Marvel owes anyone an apology or the book need to be recalled.

As far as comparing a religious text to something from nambla, that's just kav being kav. Take it for whatever its worth.

What harm has he done the product? People are talking about it, and if anything it seems to be selling better. What harm has Marvel or Disney suffered?

No, idea about Kav.  Didn't read his post.  Not sure why you provided any insight into it.  I didn't reference it.  

Harm = bad publicity.  Yes, you can harm a corporation by your actions that brings about bad publicity.   For example, bad publicity can lower your stock price and devalue your company.

[ADAMANTIUM]

11 minutes ago, Lucky Baru said:

No, it is protection from the Government.  The Constitution is about the Rights the Government cannot take away from the Citizenry.

So true !!

[kav]

You can't get Shadroch to admit he's wrong-ever.  That's just Shad being Shad.  Everyone else is quite clear on the concept.

As far as comparing a pedophile group with a text advocating eternal enemy status and all that entails for jews and christians being and unfair comparison I'll leave that up to each boardie to decide.

Edited April 10, 2017 by kav

[ashsaytr]

thought it was funny that Kitty Pryde is the group leader... shes Jewish

[Doc McCoy]

He has every right to express his religious/political views as he has done many times on his FB page.  What he didn't have the right to do was subvert the work he was being paid to do without the approval of his employer.

 

Looks like he's paid quite a price.

 

http://www.newsarama.com/33977-x-men-gold-artist-ardian-syaf-my-career-is-over.html

[kevhtx]

Yeah and Im not really sure what he accomplished? I don't think he changed anyone's mind by what he did and isn't that what he would be trying to do? Otherwise, the sacrifice seems to be worthless. Unless maybe he just didn't want to continue in this career and wanted to go out with a bit of a name for himself. Doesn't seem like there was a whole lot of thought put behind it really. It does show how lazy Marvel has gotten though. Seriously, no one saw those images and wondered what that was??

[Lazyboy]

53 minutes ago, kav said:

You can't get Shadroch to admit he's wrong-ever.  That's just Shad being Shad.  Everyone else is quite clear on the concept.

As far as comparing a pedophile group with a text advocating eternal enemy status and all that entails for jews and christians being and unfair comparison I'll leave that up to each boardie to decide.

  Everybody loves misinterpreting religious text.

[kav]

1 minute ago, Lazyboy said:

  Everybody loves misinterpreting religious text.

How do you interpret 'Muslims should not take the Jews and Christians as their allies/friends'?

[Lazyboy]

14 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

Yeah and Im not really sure what he accomplished? I don't think he changed anyone's mind by what he did and isn't that what he would be trying to do? Otherwise, the sacrifice seems to be worthless. Unless maybe he just didn't want to continue in this career and wanted to go out with a bit of a name for himself. Doesn't seem like there was a whole lot of thought put behind it really. It does show how lazy Marvel has gotten though. Seriously, no one saw those images and wondered what that was??

Barely anybody is even talking about the placement of the bat after Kurt's swing.  

7 minutes ago, kav said:

How do you interpret 'Muslims should not take the Jews and Christians as their allies/friends'?

http://gwillowwilson.com/post/159367075123/here-is-what-quran-551-actually-says

[kav]

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=51

[kav]

Apparently there's no real consensus as to whether it means 'friend' or 'advisor'.  But i doubt someone would put a hidden message not to take Jews as advisors that seems like something not worth ranting about.  The other meaning makes sense, in a hidden rant.

[combiner1]

Just to be clear, what Syaf did does not fall under "free speech" or "freedom of speech". What he did was a mockery of comics.  

If he wanted to proclame his "love" he should have written an article or in a website, instead of hiding it in a comic book  

[kav]

Correct.  People misunderstand freedom of speech a lot.  You are not free to say whatever you want at work, for example.  Even if you work for the government, you cannot do this.